Type of Ammo = Premeditated if CC Fired

Oscarob

New member
I read an article several years ago about a citizen who had to use his carry pistol in a confrontation. He had to defend himself in court against a premeditation charge because his rounds were considered "too deadly." As I recollect, the rounds were a high velocity-high expand.

I am wondering if this is a real issue or just academic.

Any thoughts or anecdotes?
 
I think the rounds were reloads that he made. Any defense round of the shelf ( if you can find any) will be fine never use reloads for self defense!
 
I read an article several years ago about a citizen who had to use his carry pistol in a confrontation. He had to defend himself in court against a premeditation charge because his rounds were considered "too deadly." As I recollect, the rounds were a high velocity-high expand.

I am wondering if this is a real issue or just academic.

Any thoughts or anecdotes?

It was an issue in the defense of Harold Fish. 10mm pistol he used in self defense...shouldn't be an issue in a self defense case but the prosecuter made a big deal of it. There are many links on the case but this one has links to interviews, transcripts and court documents. You can google his name for info too of course.

http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/
 
I read an article several years ago about a citizen who had to use his carry pistol in a confrontation. He had to defend himself in court against a premeditation charge because his rounds were considered "too deadly." As I recollect, the rounds were a high velocity-high expand.

I am wondering if this is a real issue or just academic.

Any thoughts or anecdotes?

it's nonsense, any decent law would hammer any prosecutor who attempted to claim ammo was too deadly
 
Thanks for the link! From the looks of those cases involving handloads, the persecutor...uh i mean prosecutor...was just a hater and trying to win a case against gun owners. What struck me is how the handload left no residue on the guy's wife. Poor dude, it wasn't enough that they charged him with murder but they went through with it after finding out it wasn't.
 
If self defense shooting is justified, (defensible, warranted, reasonable, necessary), using the best self defense ammunition is a viable defense. Todays mindset is different than it was a few years ago. Today most major ammunition manufacturers produce high end defense ammunition. A few years ago, all it took was for some ammuniton to reported as effective, and the Black Talon-cop killer mentality set in. Today nearly any quality self defense ammunition is acceptable for use. Only quality factory ammo should be used for self defense because it is reliable, safe, usually sealed at the primer and case mouth, and the ammunition can be verified. Most people don't use their self defense ammunition for practice on the range. Premium self defense ammo goes for about a dollar a round. I replace mine once a year, the only time I shoot my carry ammo. Ammunition will certainly last a lot longer than one year, but when ammunition is carries in a magazine on a daily basis, I want to know that my ammunition will be totally reliable.
 
I carry bonded jacketed hollow points same as the local PD...already a good idea and proven for both reliability and liability...not too much bullet, readily available off the shelf items...marked personal defense on the box by the MFG.
 
I would assume that any lawyer would use whatever he/she could to win the case. If it meant they had to make you look bad in front of the jury, they would do it. However, equally, there is a lawyer on the other side of the court room who will try to make you look good as well.

However, personally, I use the same type of ammo for defense as our local Sheriff's department uses.
 
I mentioned this in another thread, Massad Ayoob has written about this, try googling it to find it and learn something!
 
Homeland security just bought a ton of hollow points, how deadly, all bullets are deadly!!!!!!!!!!

In NJ, HP ammo is legal for LEO's, but not for the rest of us. Hypocrites. Really, it's too kind a word for these "civil servants."
 
Homeland security just bought a ton of hollow points, how deadly, all bullets are deadly!!!!!!!!!!

In NJ, HP ammo is legal for LEO's, but not for the rest of us. Hypocrites. Really, it's too kind a word for these "civil servants."

The people writing the laws are imbeciles that fancy themselves experts on everything. It's same reason Teflon-coated bullets are illegal in several states. Some idiot started claiming they could pierce Kevlar jackets, and calling them "cop killers." The term went viral, and boom...legislature is passed without hesitation, or any basis in science or ballistics. Know what else can pierce a cops "bullet proof" jacket? Any FMJ rifle round bigger than a .204 as well as several standard handgun rounds. Teflon coating does absolutely nothing but reduce barrel wear...morons.

It'd be a real shame for one of my FMJ rounds to over-penetrate my attacker and hit one of those senators' wives because he made hollow-points illegal.
 
The use of reloads has been an issue in court on several occasions. Don't load them in your carry gun.
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Don't use Hornady "Zombie Max" ammo in your carry gun. It says not for use on humans on the box and a trial lawyer would almost certainly twist that against you in court. Yes, it's the same as their critical defense ammo with a different color plastic plug, but a jury won't know and a lawyer won't care.
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In the end it all comes down to the prosecutor and how bad he/she wants to nail you, and that usually depends on how justifiable your shooting was. A crappy prosecutor will be after you no matter what, but others will only try to nail you if the circumstances of your incident were questionable or, heaven forbid, bad. For prosecutors out for blood, they'll use whatever they can, whether it makes sense or not. They've attempted to demonize gun owners simply for the use of hollow point ammunition in some cases. Arguments such as that are usually easy to deflect by pointing out that the police use the same type of ammunition, but arguments take lawyers and court time, and those cost you dearly even when you win the case, so it's best to avoid them entirely by being wise ahead of time. So think about stuff like what's written on the box of zombie ammo and what the media did to demonize Black Talons several years back. There's no logical reason why either one of those rounds should be a problem. But our court system, and especially lawyers and juries, aren't always logical. Both of those ammo types would very likely be a source of problems if they were involved in a court case over a contentious shooting, so why risk it?
 

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