Turn them in!!!
S

Sheldon

New member
As soon as it was announced that the Texas refineries were going to close for the storm the price of fuel in Michigan jumped in excess of 64 cents a gallon. This lead to a panic buying spree across the state. Meanwhile I've read in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, and many other states the price actually dropped!!!
Link Removed I put on mine they all did and this started a panic buying spree, charged them with price fixing and collusion!
 

No thank you. I'm one of the last remaining people who believes that supply and demand are what determine prices, and that potential supply interruptions, such as Hurricane Ike, because they have the potential to disrupt output, are one cause of price increases. Add panic buying to the equation, and to me, it is easy to see why prices went up. As for the places where prices went down, those are mere anomalies.
 
tattedupboy said:
No thank you. I'm one of the last remaining people who believes that supply and demand are what determine prices, and that potential supply interruptions, such as Hurricane Ike, because they have the potential to disrupt output, are one cause of price increases. Add panic buying to the equation, and to me, it is easy to see why prices went up. As for the places where prices went down, those are mere anomalies.
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Maybe but this time the cost of the supply went up before the demand started, read my post the cost increase started the panic buying and that is wrong.
 
Sheldon said:
Maybe but this time the cost of the supply went up before the demand started, read my post the cost increase started the panic buying and that is wrong.
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That is easy to explain. There generally is a lag between when oil prices change and when gasoline prices change because the gasoline that is being sold at any given moment was purchased at a different price than the oil that is being drilled at that moment. The time between when oil is drilled and when it gets to market is what contributes to teh price differential you speak of.
 
tattedupboy said:
That is easy to explain. There generally is a lag between when oil prices change and when gasoline prices change because the gasoline that is being sold at any given moment was purchased at a different price than the oil that is being drilled at that moment. The time between when oil is drilled and when it gets to market is what contributes to teh price differential you speak of.
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So then how do you explain the fact that the price of Crude has been dropping and it hit a new low the same day!!! Time lag is almost 0 the price of crude goes up and is on the afternoon news, price of gas goes up in that evening... you do not have a valid argument. By your own logic then since the price of crude is around $100.00 a barrel, then the price of gas should be around $3.00 or less as it was when the prices started the meteoric rise. Demand is down in the USA, price of Crude is down in the world market, but still the price increases.
 
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Sheldon said:
Maybe but this time the cost of the supply went up before the demand started, read my post the cost increase started the panic buying and that is wrong.
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Easy. The price you pay for gasoline today reflects the price the distributor/dealer will have to pay to replace the gasoline. It does not reflect the price they paid for what they sold but rather the price they will pay for the replacement. So in a probable shortage situation the future price will be higher thus the current price rises to reflect that. Supply and Demand --- capitalism at work.
 
Sheldon said:
So then how do you explain the fact that the price of Crude has been dropping and it hit a new low the same day!!! Time lag is almost 0 the price of crude goes up and is on the afternoon news, price of gas goes up in that evening... you do not have a valid argument. By your own logic then since the price of crude is around $100.00 a barrel, then the price of gas should be around $3.00 or less as it was when the prices started the meteoric rise. Demand is down in the USA, price of Crude is down in the world market, but still the price increases.
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Falling crude prices reflect falling future demand. As a result of falling future demand less gasoline goes into the distribution pipeline --- distributors do not want to be caught with huge stocks of gasoline for which they have paid but cannot sell. So local stocks are allowed to go down to refelct the probable future demand. Then add the immediate possibilty that near term future supply will be suddenly reduced by refinery closings, drilling slowdowns/shutdowns and the price to replace current stocks means that near term supply will be reduced and replacement prices will go up, thus driving the retail price up. Supply and Demand.
 
johnsteele said:
Falling crude prices reflect falling future demand. As a result of falling future demand less gasoline goes into the distribution pipeline --- distributors do not want to be caught with huge stocks of gasoline for which they have paid but cannot sell. So local stocks are allowed to go down to refelct the probable future demand. Then add the immediate possibilty that near term future supply will be suddenly reduced by refinery closings, drilling slowdowns/shutdowns and the price to replace current stocks means that near term supply will be reduced and replacement prices will go up, thus driving the retail price up. Supply and Demand.
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Yeah the problem with the theory is the price only goes up, by your own admission since the price of crude in the world market has been dropping for a couple of months now then the old supplies are gone, hence the price should be lowering, also the supplies of the gasoline again should be dropping, not so it is at the same price per gallon as it was when crude hit the $140.00 per barrel price. Again no valid argument has been presented for the Price increase.
 
Sheldon said:
As soon as it was announced that the Texas refineries were going to close for the storm the price of fuel in Michigan jumped in excess of 64 cents a gallon. This lead to a panic buying spree across the state. Meanwhile I've read in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, and many other states the price actually dropped!!!
Link Removed I put on mine they all did and this started a panic buying spree, charged them with price fixing and collusion!
Click to expand...

Not sure where in Texas that was supposed to be but I live in Fort worth and it sky rocketed here. Also a lot of the stations have run out of gas. If it went down anywhere I am sure it was an isolated case.
 
HK4U said:
Not sure where in Texas that was supposed to be but I live in Fort worth and it sky rocketed here. Also a lot of the stations have run out of gas. If it went down anywhere I am sure it was an isolated case.
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Well you can go check here on a competing forum page 4 I believe...
Yesterday a QT station in Plano, TX had gas for $3.49. Today while going to lunch it was $3.59, and $3.69 on the way back from lunch. What next?
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Going up is one thing but gouging is another.Kicking you when are down is dirty.If wall street CEO's had a fair bone in their body's we would feel bad for them. I did not have a golden parachute just a fair retirement plain.:nhl_checking:
 
Yeah,

Unfortunately this happened where I live and gas went from 3.80 a gallon in one hour to 5.49!

People are stupid! They caused it... I can only hope the attorney general will prosecute these people, as we had a new law go in effect on 1 July.... I can only bet that they will make excuses, just as they did when Katrina hit, but now... they are "REQUIRED" to prosecute them...

Funny thing is.. you could find 1 or 2 stations that never raised their prices.... the ones that went to above 5.00 per gallon ALL RAN OUT OF GAS.. and as of right now.. they are still out of gas... They started the panic....they got what they deserved.. I hope they lose TONS AND TONS of money waiting to get gas in... while the people that never raised their prices still have gas... LOL...
 
johnsteele said:
Easy. The price you pay for gasoline today reflects the price the distributor/dealer will have to pay to replace the gasoline. It does not reflect the price they paid for what they sold but rather the price they will pay for the replacement. So in a probable shortage situation the future price will be higher thus the current price rises to reflect that. Supply and Demand --- capitalism at work.
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That's exactly what I've been trying to tell everyone. Speculators do just that, speculate. They don't influence the price of gas any more than thermometers control the temperature. Putting the blame on speculators is starting to make everyone sound like the liberals we love to ridicule.
 
johnsteele said:
Easy. The price you pay for gasoline today reflects the price the distributor/dealer will have to pay to replace the gasoline. It does not reflect the price they paid for what they sold but rather the price they will pay for the replacement. So in a probable shortage situation the future price will be higher thus the current price rises to reflect that. Supply and Demand --- capitalism at work.
Click to expand...

only partly true they have a heap of leeway N who sets their price.... the Refinery and how much is the refinery paying for oil... under $100 a barrel so why the price increase... can you say gouge.
 
tattedupboy said:
Can you say misinformed? I can!
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Yesterday the wife N I want on a short trip to a flea market about 40 miles away (Yum fresh Michigan peaches) to the west, while there I fueled up to the max as gas was almost 40 cents a gallon cheaper than at home. You could blame delivery costs, but I have a major fuel line/ depot less than 10 miles to the east, you could say it is demand, but then this was in a high demand tourist trap area, No not misinformed but someone is.

You might ask what kind of nut would drive that far for peaches? local cost, 18-20 dollars a half bushel, they were picked green, refrigerated until they were ripe and have no flavor. 40 miles away is the fruit belt, you get them fresh off the tree from the grower... 5-8 bucks a half bushel, and they are full of flavor. Now that you can blame on delivery costs.
 
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Sheldon said:
Yesterday the wife N I want on a short trip to a flea market about 40 miles away (Yum fresh Michigan peaches) to the west, while there I fueled up to the max as gas was almost 40 cents a gallon cheaper than at home. You could blame delivery costs, but I have a major fuel line/ depot less than 10 miles to the east, you could say it is demand, but then this was in a high demand tourist trap area, No not misinformed but someone is.

You might ask what kind of nut would drive that far for peaches? local cost, 18-20 dollars a half bushel, they were picked green, refrigerated until they were ripe and have no flavor. 40 miles away is the fruit belt, you get them fresh off the tree from the grower... 5-8 bucks a half bushel, and they are full of flavor. Now that you can blame on delivery costs.
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They'd better be some damned good peaches! :smile:
 
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