Trip Report - Traveling with my M&P 45 on JetBlue

[Phillip Gain]

It was that time of year. Time to take off for WV to see the family. Only this time was a little different. This would be my first time traveling by air with my handgun.

First, I checked with USACarry.com and with the Utah website. Yup...good to go, for both PA and WV. Our plan was to fly JetBlue from Boston to Pittsburgh on Dec 24, then rent a car from there to our destination. On Dec 30, we would go back exactly the same way we came in.

As required by law, I packed my M&P in a locked case (the factory box), along with 3 empty magazines. I packed the locked case in my checked bag. I packed 30 rounds of ammo in the factory boxes, and put those in another part of the same suitcase. Then I set off for Boston with my wife and little boy.

(Note: I had considered carrying as far as the parking facility, then unloading and boxing up there - but decided that the low risk of getting carjacked on the way to the airport wasn't worth the hassle of trying to discreetly disarm in a semi-public area.)

When we got to the airport, we decided it would be best to skip the self-check-in kiosk and go to the counter instead. I informed the JetBlue employee at the counter that I had a firearm to declare. He asked "Handgun or Long Gun?" I answered, and he gave me a Firearms Declaration tag that I was to sign and place in the box with the gun.

He then said "Excuse me for a moment; I need to go over to TSA and ask them something." He was back in just a couple of minutes. "Sorry about that. TSA changes their procedures all the time. I wasn't sure whether you needed to drop this bag with them for pre-screening, or whether I could just take it behind the counter. It's no problem, I can take it here."

On arrival in Pittsburgh, the bag appeared on the belt as usual, with no fuss. I collected it, opened it to verify the gun was still in it, and went on my way.

The week passed uneventfully. Holiday cheer with the family. Everyone was impressed that my son Cory is walking at 9 months. (He's been at it since 7.) My cousin Rachel (age 12) got a lesson in the 2nd Amendment. "No sweetie...police and soldiers are NOT the only ones allowed to carry guns..."

The 30th arrived. We said goodbye to family and headed for Pittsburgh International. Same procedure at check-in, gun locked in case, case and ammo in different parts of the checked bag. As before, the check-in agent had me sign a firearms declaration and put it in the case with the pistol. The only difference: In Pittsburgh, luggage containing declared firearms must be checked with TSA and pre-screened. Not a big deal, just a short walk down the concourse to check the bag separately.

I wondered how the arrival in Boston would go. Given the politics here, I expected to have to show an officer my LTC-A before claiming my luggage. (For those who don't know, you have to have an FID or LTC to even OWN a gun in Massachusetts. Both are "may issue" and if revoked, you have to sell or store your firearms...big pain..) Anyway - nothing like that happened. My luggage came out on the belt as usual.

All in all, traveling with my pistol was truly an easy and almost boring process. Nothing to be afraid of. Go forth armed, my friends!

 

[sherra]

I flew from Charlotte to Portland, Oregon and back in May with no issues with my Taurus 709 Slim. I can't remember which airline... Delta maybe.

 

[Keykutter]

Hey Phillip, you couldn't find a fight thru NY?

Happy New Year!

KK

 

[walt629]

I fly all over the Eastern US and have never had a problem. But like you pointed out there seems to be a bit of a problem with TSA being consistent. Some airports require the bag to be checked in at the airline counted and moved by the owner to the TSA for screening. Others will do the same but the ticket agent must carry the bag to TSA and like you said, some airlines/TSA just let the bags go 'down the chute' with the rest of the bags.

Go figure! Inconsistency in the government agencies. Who would have thought!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I wondered how the arrival in Boston would go. Given the politics here, I expected to have to show an officer my LTC-A before claiming my luggage.

How would they know there was a firearm in your luggage? It's against Federal law for them to mark your luggage in any way that it contains a firearm.

 

[Phillip Gain]

Yes, it is against Federal law to mark the outside of your luggage in any way that indicates it contains a firearm. But for one to think this means the airlines do not know which bags contain firearms, one must be terribly naive.

When one checks luggage, bag tags are generated at the counter. Each tag has a unique number which is recorded in the passenger's reservation. Each tag also contains the passenger's name, along with 3-letter IATA codes indicating connect points and destination of the bag. Lastly, there is a bar code on the bag tag which associates the bag with your reservation.

When you check and declare a firearm, two things happen:

1) The signed firearms declaration tag goes into the gun case. This shows TSA that the airline is aware that the firearm is on board.

2) The bag tag is scanned, and the luggage is flagged in the computer reservation system as containing a firearm. A record is created in WorldTracer (a central luggage system subscribed to by just about all the airlines), and a mirror of this record is saved in your airline's computer reservation system as well.

It would NOT be difficult for Boston PD, or Mass State Police, to maintain a subscription to WorldTracer and be notified of passengers inbound with checked firearms. Or alternatively, I'm sure MassPort has such a subscription, and could/would cooperate with authorities if requested.

Once that happens - very small matter for one's luggage to be set aside in the luggage office after scanning, with a police officer waiting to check your FID/LTC before you can claim it...and arrest you if you don't have your FID/LTC on you.

Obviously this is NOT HAPPENING in Boston, but theoretically it COULD happen in any state which requires a license for ownership / possession.

Don't believe it? How many people have been arrested in Chicago, New York, and Newark when their flights got diverted there, while carrying firearms in their checked luggage? In some cases they got 'caught' when trying to check the firearm after a forced overnight stay. But in other cases, there were officers pretty much waiting on them when the plane landed.

(I tried to look up specific examples of the latter, but could not readily find them. My training counselor - a law professor - had some examples which we explored in my instructor courses.)

 

[NavyLCDR]

Riiiiiiight......And that completes conspiracy theory 101. Oh, but you are an instructor.

 

[localgirl]

Huh? What happened there? I'm not following...was there a conspiracy theory and I completely missed it?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Huh? What happened there? I'm not following...was there a conspiracy theory and I completely missed it?

Yes, right here:

But for one to think this means the airlines do not know which bags contain firearms, one must be terribly naive.

When you check and declare a firearm, two things happen:

1) The signed firearms declaration tag goes into the gun case. This shows TSA that the airline is aware that the firearm is on board.

2) The bag tag is scanned, and the luggage is flagged in the computer reservation system as containing a firearm.

It would NOT be difficult for Boston PD, or Mass State Police, to maintain a subscription to WorldTracer and be notified of passengers inbound with checked firearms. Or alternatively, I'm sure MassPort has such a subscription, and could/would cooperate with authorities if requested.

Once that happens - very small matter for one's luggage to be set aside in the luggage office after scanning, with a police officer waiting to check your FID/LTC before you can claim it...and arrest you if you don't have your FID/LTC on you.

(I tried to look up specific examples of the latter, but could not readily find them. My training counselor - a law professor - had some examples which we explored in my instructor courses.)

That's the conspiracy theory. No actual proof of anything happening that he says regarding "firearms flagging" by the airlines when checking in baggage. No examples of police swooping down on passengers at luggage carousels.

For the airline to tag a file in the computer system that the piece of luggage contains a firearm would still violate Federal regulations as it would be a means for employees to know which suitcases contained firearms, which is exactly what the law is attempting to prevent.

Link Removed

Cases will not be labeled as containing firearms. That practice was outlawed almost 10 years ago. Federal law now states: "No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm." [18 USC Sec. 922(e)] TSA will warn any airline that is marking cases that it is in violation of the law.

Obviously, the gun will show up on x-ray machines, which is why it is recommended to lock the slide back and keep magazines removed from the gun so that it is easy to see the gun is unloaded on x-ray. Also, the declaration tag shows up on x-ray - that's how TSA knows the firearm was declared - they can see the tag shaped image on the x-ray near to a locked case with a gun in it.

 

[Phillip Gain]

NavyLCDR - you're such a know-it-all.

As it happens, I spent 3 years working for a major airline at the check-in counter. I spent 11 more years working as a travel agent. This is stuff I know a LOT about. You can rest assured that if there is a firearm in the luggage, it is noted in your reservation.

Frankly, I'd appreciate it if you'd just stay off my posts. I'm sick of you.

 

[NavyLCDR]

NavyLCDR - you're such a know-it-all.

As it happens, I spent 3 years working for a major airline at the check-in counter. I spent 11 more years working as a travel agent. This is stuff I know a LOT about. You can rest assured that if there is a firearm in the luggage, it is noted in your reservation.

Frankly, I'd appreciate it if you'd just stay off my posts. I'm sick of you.

Ahhh.... yes, disdain for the first amendment as well. OF course you worked for the airlines. Of course you violated Federal law. Of course you were a travel agent before becoming a "firearms instructor". Yes, I used quotes. Of course I am a "NavyLCDR". All these are just words in an html file, aren't they?

Show us actual proof of your claims. Even you, yourself, admitted:

(I tried to look up specific examples of the latter, but could not readily find them. My training counselor - a law professor - had some examples which we explored in my instructor courses.)

Show us the examples, Mr. Gain. Without your examples, you are no less of an internet know-it-all than I am.

 

[Phillip Gain]

HOW DARE YOU!! My disdain is not towards the First Amendment. My disdain is towards a mouthy, condescending, small jerk who happens to be a US Navy officer. You must be incredibly inspirational to the men under your command. If you have this big a chip on your shoulder when commanding your sailors, it won't surprise me if you find yourself floating home from your next combat cruise.

The First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I am not Congress, and am not making a law against your words. I am not the Government, denying you the right to redress of grievances. So you can take your snide remark about my disdain for the First Amendment, and go F yourself with it. And go F yourself with your negative insinuations about my instructor status while you're at it. *********.

My intent with this post was to present a factual "real world" account of my first experience traveling with a firearm on a major airline. I also expressed my concerns about arriving in Boston...and my relief that my concerns were unfounded.

In your followup posts:

1) You saw fit to belittle me because I had the concerns in the first place.

2) When I answered your query about the source of my concerns, you saw fit to belittle me because my knowledge of inside procedures of airlines was outdated. (More on that below.)

3) You saw fit (for at least the second or third time in our interactions) to snidely call into question my instructor credentials.

4) When I got annoyed at your boorish and rude behavior, and said something about it, you saw fit to question my support of the First Amendment. (Again - Go F yourself. *********)

I will concede this much: I made a follow-up phone call to JetBlue tonight. To my surprise, it is NO LONGER airline policy to note something in their reservation system when a passenger checks a firearm. The Firearm Declaration Tag is the only documentation that a passenger has a gun in his/her luggage. This is very different from when I worked for US Airways. And it is counter-intuitive; Subsequent to the events of 9/11, I would have expected TSA to require airlines to MORE carefully track firearms and other "dangerous items" aboard aircraft in checked bags.

So, ONCE AGAIN you were able to nit-pick my post.

ONCE AGAIN you were able to find some small inaccuracy, jump all over it, clapping your hands and clicking your heels gleefuly like the fat little squid troll you are.

ONCE AGAIN you were right. And ONCE AGAIN your boorish behavior reveals you for the negative and self-righteous jerk you are, rather than the positive, courteous professional and asset to this community that you could be.

Oh and did I mention - GO F YOURSELF. *********.

 

[Keykutter]

Hey Phillip,

Don't let the Sea Scout get to you. As I have stated before, I don't even think he's even a real LCDR in the real Navy. In 20 years, I have never come across someone who attained that rank that is so mouthy, condescending and willing to throw his ass in the middle of things just to puff his chest.

Damn, I haven't seen much of him as of late and I was hoping he was gone, but alas, I was wrong.

Yeah, his daddy is probably in the Navy and hears him talk about it to his sister, but comes here because his daddy won't talk to him.

Ya just have to laugh at him and feel a bit sorry. Don't get mad at him. How would you feel if your daddy didn't like you and your mother made you wear pink, and the only escape you had was behind your keyboard?

KK

 

[NavyLCDR]

As I explained in a reply to a private message that I have received: I attempt to provide people with FACTUAL resources, to which I post references to, so that they can make intelligent decisions based upon what the facts in reality are either in statute or court decisions. This is not the first time that you have posted incorrect information. I would assume that the "instructor" tag under your screen name is supposed to lead us to feel more secure that what you post is actually factually true and researched information. I'm sorry that it chaps your behind when I provide people with information with references to the actual sources which proves your statements to be erroneous.

As I stated in my private message reply to the inquiry I received:

I just like presenting facts in order to allow people to make informed decisions instead of living their lives in the footsteps of self-proclaimed experts. You will notice that a large percentage of the time when I post something, I also post a reliable source or reference which provides factual basis for my assertions. How many times has someone said, "The law says X!" And I have posted, "Really? Statute 123.45 from this government website says Y. Where did you get your information from?" "I got my info from the cop down the street, the gun store down the street or in my CCW class."

I will say that I value the fact that you are willing to come back and post

I will concede this much: I made a follow-up phone call to JetBlue tonight. To my surprise, it is NO LONGER airline policy to note something in their reservation system when a passenger checks a firearm. The Firearm Declaration Tag is the only documentation that a passenger has a gun in his/her luggage. This is very different from when I worked for US Airways. And it is counter-intuitive; Subsequent to the events of 9/11, I would have expected TSA to require airlines to MORE carefully track firearms and other "dangerous items" aboard aircraft in checked bags.

I admire the fact that you are willing to research and find facts and continue to learn. I also appreciate when people post links to facts that prove me wrong and that I can learn from.

Part of the reason I am so abrasive on this forum is that I am sick and tired of people being wishy washy, living in fear of government and the anti-gun crowd, and compromising, many times fueled by false information. It is through compromise and conceding that we have allowed our government to run this country to the brink of ruin. I am through compromising. And, sometimes, when a person calls a spade a spade, they might sometimes call a heart a spade.

 

[Phillip Gain]

I admire the fact that you are willing to research and find facts and continue to learn. I also appreciate when people post links to facts that prove me wrong and that I can learn from.

Part of the reason I am so abrasive on this forum is that I am sick and tired of people being wishy washy, living in fear of government and the anti-gun crowd, and compromising, many times fueled by false information. It is through compromise and conceding that we have allowed our government to run this country to the brink of ruin. I am through compromising. And, sometimes, when a person calls a spade a spade, they might sometimes call a heart a spade.

First off...I don't give a damn for your admiration. You are reminding me why, in my Army Reserve days, I disliked officers. And squids. So take a guess what you can do with your admiration.

I get where you're coming from about people compromising, etc. But guess what? Being an abrasive jerk to your fellow gun owners DOES NOT HELP. And as to you making corrections - you do it in a way that DOES NOT HELP. You remind me of the jerks that go around habitually correcting other peoples' grammar!

With this post specifically - my message was, "Hey folks...just flew with my gun and it went well. I had some worries, but it turns out they were unfounded." The idea was to inspire confidence in my fellow gun owners, and to alleviate fears about traveling with their firearms.

But sadly, that message has been drowned out by your snide nit-picking of my concerns and their foundations...along with your childish "You're not a REAL teacher!" insinuations.

So once again - until you start behaving like an adult, treating people with respect, and MAYBE EVEN acting like a knowledgable and helpful gun owner who can positively enlighten others - you can go F yourself. A*sho*e.