Traveling with a group.
- Thread starter Malachi
- Start date
Tucker's Mom
New member
There are rules and regulations and laws in different states that will cover you as a CCW holder that will not cover the others that are travelling with you. If you had taken the time to fill up your profile and put in your location, your question would have been more properly answered. At this stage, I will be guessing as to how to reply to your question. One thing that you should remember, if a child is at the front passenger seat, a gun in the console is considered "within reach"... and that is a NO! NO!"
Tucker's Mom
New member
I saw this and I was about to go to bed...
I am sure many will agree with my response to Malachi...and if you sir, decided to take it as a joke and you respond with your uneducated guess, you are putting this person in a bind. Will you answer to that? Troll!
Annoy me? Link Removed
B
Bikenut
Guest
Since laws vary from State to State with no two State's laws are exactly alike it is impossible to give an answer when folks ask a question concerning the legality of something but do not say which State they are in.. or intend to be in.
I will give my opinion ("opinion" means the following is NOT legal advice!) concerning having/leaving a gun in the center console of a car with other people also in the car......
It is your responsibility to keep your firearms under your control at all times. A pistol in the center console while you are in the back seat (perhaps sleeping?) means the gun is NOT under your control but is easily available to anyone in the front seat and potentially available to anyone in the back seat too.
Having said that..... in Michigan .... if your gun is in the center console and you are in the back seat it would be easy for a prosecutor to consider whoever is in the front seat to be "in possession" of your pistol because it is easily accessible to them but not to you.... and in Michigan.... it is illegal for anyone to be "in possession" of a pistol owned by someone else unless they have a concealed carry permit.
The best thing to do would be to do a 'net search concerning concealed carry reciprocity for every State you intend to visit/pass through ... and to also do a 'net search for each of those State's gun laws so you know (not just heard it on a gun forum) whether what you are doing is legal or not.
Actually... I more than strongly suggest doing that 'net search thing because it is you, and your family/friend's, you want to keep out of jail.
Just to avoid confusion concerning the concept of who "possesses" something........... and this definition I found on the 'net is NOT specific to just Michigan... please read entire definition here:
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Constructive Possession
Constructive possession is a legal theory used to extend possession to situations where a person has no hands-on custody of an object. Most courts say that constructive possession, also sometimes called "possession in law," exists where a person has knowledge of an object plus the ability to control the object, even if the person has no physical contact with it (United States
v. Derose, 74 F.3d 1177 [11th Cir. 1996]). For example, people often keep important papers and other valuable items in a bank safety deposit box. Although they do not have actual physical custody of these items, they do have knowledge of the items and the ability to exercise control over them. Thus, under the doctrine of constructive possession, they are still considered in possession of the contents of their safety deposit box. Constructive possession is frequently used in cases involving criminal possession.
(bold added by me for emphasis)
Ok... would a prosecutor consider a person sitting in the front seat(s) who knows there is a gun in the center console and can easily access it to be "in possession" of that gun? I don't know (I suspect he would) but here is the crux of the matter.... Do you want to take that chance?
you dont need a CWP in SC to carry a loaded weapon in your car as long as it's behind a latched enclosure (center console, glove box).
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
If you are trolling......"Ma Vaffanculo!"
If you are not trolling, I would not advise you to keep your sidearm in the center console.
Get yourself a good quality concealment holster and keep it on you.
USN2Pulpit
New member
Okay, I don't claim to be an expert, but the driver would not be in trouble in most states, because of the word "knowingly" in almost every state statute. That being said, however, imagine the shock if someone were to reach into the console, like maybe during a traffic stop.
Get a nice ankle carry or shoulder rig for the trip, and you won't have to worry about this.
Get a nice ankle carry or shoulder rig for the trip, and you won't have to worry about this.
Seriously?!? Just how do you propose a person answer the question, "Is it legal to...?" without any jurisdiction (you'll probably have to look that up) provided which might apply? We can't even advise the OP if FOPA applies because we don't even know if they are talking about an interstate trip, intrastate trip, and/or what states are going to be involved.
Give me a break. If saying, "we need to know your planned locations" is being a Nazi, then....
to Tucker's Mom.
Malachi
New member
Sorry for the confusion folks . I live in kommiefornia and am expecting my AZ permit next week. I am planning a trip to Ohio.
I will likely get grilled for this, but.....i do not carry for protection against people. I would never shoot another human, therefore plan to keep the gun without a magazine in it, but rather in glove box or something. I like to shoot target , and am getting a CCW mainly because laws are so crazy some places I could get arrested just for having it in vehicle.
Also, if worried about gun being accessible by others in vehicle, I personally don't allow people to travel with me that I don't trust.
I am mainly concerned about whether my CCW covers the gun in vehicle but not on my person.
Thanks for the helpful info. I will just have to keep it in a locked container in the back and I "think" FOPA will cover me. No?
I will likely get grilled for this, but.....i do not carry for protection against people. I would never shoot another human, therefore plan to keep the gun without a magazine in it, but rather in glove box or something. I like to shoot target , and am getting a CCW mainly because laws are so crazy some places I could get arrested just for having it in vehicle.
Also, if worried about gun being accessible by others in vehicle, I personally don't allow people to travel with me that I don't trust.
I am mainly concerned about whether my CCW covers the gun in vehicle but not on my person.
Thanks for the helpful info. I will just have to keep it in a locked container in the back and I "think" FOPA will cover me. No?
Unloaded firearm AND ammunition in a locked container in the back of the vehicle will cover you under FOPA. Be advised, in Ohio, to be legal without a recognized permit, all magazines for the gun in the vehicle must also be unloaded of ammo. In all the other states you will be in, including California, the magazines can stay loaded and be in the same locked container with the unloaded gun. If you are not carrying for protection, there is no need to take the chance of having the gun accessible - to either you or observant LEO. NEVER consent to a search of the locked container the gun is in.
Tucker's Mom
New member
I do not consider you a troll...but I am confused at your statement above. What is the point of having a gun and a valid CCW...I really do not understand. Can you please enlighten me? Are you planning to use your gun for show?
Iam2Taz
New member
Since I think you are in CA and heading to Ohio. (God only knows why?) Sorry Buckeye Fans, I couldn't resist. I will give you a little advice. DRIVE AROUND ILLINOIS! There isn't anything legal there! If you must drive through it, fill up before you enter and stop and shake the sand from your sandals when you leave.
Just sayin....
Just sayin....
What bothers me is this @$&*(!!!) come out and hit 's Tuckers mom with this NATZI thing! just for offering some good feed back?. I say here is your TROLL FOLKS!!!. I find nothing wrong with what Tuckers mom or Navy had to say but the thought of calling some one a Natzi is just not right . Hey go find the door and get lost.
Malachi
New member
Tucker's Mom:312824 said:I do not consider you a troll...but I am confused at your statement above. What is the point of having a gun and a valid CCW...I really do not understand. Can you please enlighten me? Are you planning to use your gun for show?
I was raised in south Louisiana, so I basically was born with a gun in my hand. I have since become a Christian. But, I still very much enjoy shooting. My father recently gave me the 9mm.
There ain't nowhere in LA area to shoot except at a range, and if you get caught transporting it to the range, if a cop is having a bad day he could charge you with illegally carrying. Yeah, you might win in court, but at what cost? So , i started looking to get a CCW to make sure I'm legal. But, to get one in kommiefornia is stupid hard, so I just sent off for AZ one for starters, hoping the reciprocity bill will become law. But , not sure if even that would help in my home state....
I'm thinking of taking it on trip looking to maybe pull off in some backwoods somewhere and do some shooting. Crazy, I know. But I've had this gun since December and no opportunity to shoot and I'm getting itchy. I mean, before I took a trip back to Louisiana in December I hadn't squeezed a trigger in nearly ten years. That's hard on a southern boy!
Also , I just realized that my AZ permit ain't no good in Ohio since ain't an AZ resident. I was thinking it would be, hence the thought of taking gun with me.
Also, I enjoy hiking with my wife and small children, and there's more than two legged beasts out there that might hurt us. I'm thinking if I ever get legal to carry in kommiefornia I might look for something big enough to fend off a bear.
Tucker's Mom
New member
MOVE. As soon as you can MOVE. You and your family. We used to live in Mission Viejo while we have our hangar in Compton. Husband loves flying and would sometimes still be in his hangar after dark. He did not have a permit to carry but he does have a gun to protect himself should those "people of bad elements" get to him. We can't live in fear all the time, that kind of fear. It makes you stop enjoying life if you can't smell the flowers along your way. Back in the days when I was living full-time in Australia, it seems like living in Kommiefornia is a fashion statement. NOT. To the world outside of the US it is though...:smile:
Malachi
New member
Believe me, I am looking to move. I spent a few years on the Indiana side of the Indiana/Ohio line and I'm thinking of going back to that area. But, I have a family now and It's hard to leave a good job in this economy.
But, if I ever get a good chance to leave, I won't hesitate..
But, if I ever get a good chance to leave, I won't hesitate..
I am going to open a great big can of worms here, and toss in a smoke grenade to drive them out....but I have to ask...
Why does becoming a Christian have any affect on possessing/shooting firearms or carrying them for self-protection?
