Top Ten Failures of the Concealed Carry Crowd

I agree with some things such as not enough shooting practice, not being acquainted with good defense tactics, and not being aware of your surroundings. However, I feel the majority of CCW people do shoot at the range, some more than others. I believe most CCW people clean and lube their guns. I believe they look at videos about handling and shooting guns online. I believe the majority learn to realize how important a good holster and gun belt are.

I doubt there is any other country that has people carrying guns which are better informed than CCW people in the U.S.

Plus we have the best selection of firearms available.

:big_boss:

Having spent far too much time shooting at a public range, nothing could be further from the truth. As a whole, there is a total lack of skills, knowledge and common courtesy. It amazes me that anyone could ever believe that they could defend their lives with such poor preparation and meager equipment.

Just as one simple example, I cannot tell you how many times that I have "repaired" a fellow shooters malfunctioning handgun with a quick cleaning and proper lubrication. When I inquire about their maintenance practices, I get the craziest answers. My personal favorite is "it's a new gun, I shouldn't have to clean or lube it".
 
These statements are neither presumptuous nor arrogant. These are my observations of teaching as a profession for over 3 decades. And it was written for concealed carriers as in Florida we only have concealed carry. I don't teach in an Open Carry state. If you have that experience then jump right in if you instruct in an open carry state and tell us what you have seen in class......

My experience mirrors Bob's. I feel bob has far more credibility given that his beliefs are based on a lifetime of shooting and training than those that hypothesize about the effectiveness of inadequate calibers without one bit of real life real world experience.
 
These statements are neither presumptuous nor arrogant. These are my observations of teaching as a profession for over 3 decades. And it was written for concealed carriers as in Florida we only have concealed carry. I don't teach in an Open Carry state. If you have that experience then jump right in if you instruct in an open carry state and tell us what you have seen in class......
I live in Oklahoma. It's in all states that allow any form of carry. I can tell how serous a person is by the gun and gear they have and tell me they shoot once a year. You do make it sound like it's just conceal carry people. I read that only about 5% of people that own guns get any training. The training your state mandates does not count.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself, Cypher. I think anyone claiming to be the end-all and be-all of knowledge on the subject is giving themselves way too much credit and has an ego the size of Texas, really.

As for the "Failure to..." list, you simply cannot have a one size fits all list when it comes to concealed carry, period. For example:

"Failure to carry a gun of substantial caliber" is about as vague as you can be and still be incorrect depending on the circumstances.

So is "Failure to properly equip oneself. (Belt, holster, reloads,illumination and nonlethal weapons)." I would think someone in Florida would understand this, but apparently not.

If you're running to the grocery store to pick up milk and bread and it's a typical Florida summer, you're probably not going to be wearing enough clothing to properly conceal your "substantial caliber" .45 ACP Commander-style 1911 handgun and 4 spare magazines, belt, and holster. And if you ARE, people are going to look at you funny because you're WAY overdressed in 90 degree and 90% humidity. I live in the South Carolina swamps so the weather here is the same as Florida's, only without a nice ocean breeze. You sweat walking to and from the mailbox.

Instead having to choose between heading out without a pistol at all or arming for the Rebel Uprising Mr. Harvey would have you do, there are lots of "pocket pistols" one can carry that are easily concealable....well, in the pocket of your short pants, even...imagine that - a "pocket pistol" - which would be a good compromise so long as it's a weapon you're familiar with and have practiced with.

I would certainly much rather have a pocket pistol with 6 or 7 shots instead of nothing because of the way I'm dressed, that much is certain.

The other thing about "failing" to carry a hand cannon is that some people simply cannot accurately fire a .45 or .44 magnum Dirty Harry gun if they are old, small in stature, or have physical problems. A GOOD instructor should take into account an individual's size, weight, strength, and experience and then go forward based on what that individual needs. Sitting at a computer being condescending to people who don't agree with 150% of what you say+ not only would make me wonder about that person's ego (it sure does), but it's someone I'd make sure NOT to be instructed by.

Teaching is more than just imparting knowledge. It's doing so in a constructive and supportive way and in a manner that doesn't intimidate your students.

If a student doesn't feel comfortable shooting a Macho-caliber firearm, I wouldn't force training on it down their throats. Why? Because chances are they'll not enjoy the experience and therefore won't PRACTICE the way they should in order to achieve a good level of proficiency. Find something that the student is comfortable with, even if it's a .22LR pistol, and make sure they get good practice techniques down and don't develop bad habits. I have seen too many people develop a flinch because of being forced to use too much gun for THEM than they should be using, and once a flinch develops, for example, it can sometimes be very, very difficult to train it back out of them...especially with new shooters.

If someone really needs to be able to shoot a "big gun" for whatever reason and isn't used to it, start small and work your way up. Some people simply aren't suited for the bigger stuff. Bad habits are easy to form and difficult to break, so making sure their form is good with a firearm they feel comfortable with practicing repeatedly with is FAR more important than "uh...biggest gun wins."

No...the biggest gun does NOT win. It's the person who gets their target incapacitated first without getting shot in the process. I don't care how macho and good you think you are, it's not a very good idea to practice with several "wee little .22LR bullet holes" in you, and being wounded will negatively affect your accuracy!

Someone who IS very accurate with a .22LR WILL BEAT someone of average skills sporting a .45 - PERIOD. A round - whether it be .22 or a .45 - that goes through the brain stem will both have the same effect, which is to cause everything to instantly relax and therefore ending the confrontation. People hopped on drugs, for example, can and often have absorbed multiple shots to the chest and not stopped and have still been able to get to their victims.

Nope, I'd take someone being fast and accurate with a .22 at my side over an average shooter with a .45 ACP with a 19 round magazine ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Real-world, every-day application of common sense is an essential element in anyone's day-to-day self-protection needs. While I have no doubt Mr. Harvey's credentials are what he says they are, judging by his comments and his condescending, overbearing manner, something tells me he may not be the best firearms TEACHER around, assuming he has the same smug attitude with his students.

Dunno about Florida, but in South Carolina we abbreviate "Know-It-Alls" to "KIA" for a REASON.
 
Glad to say My Wife and I attended a very good school here in NM. that was taught by a Husband and Wife team. Very down to earth and to the precise point on all that was covered. Also they are available to all students at any time for advice and or answers to your questions. I personally felt talked down to by the OP post. You , Sir, and I use that term loosely, have no idea as to the training and or expertise of those who read this site. Just my $.02 worth. Both My Wife and I are trained shooters, shooting together for 54 years, and both of us are Gold Medal shooters. ;)
 
Glad to say My Wife and I attended a very good school here in NM. that was taught by a Husband and Wife team. Very down to earth and to the precise point on all that was covered. Also they are available to all students at any time for advice and or answers to your questions. I personally felt talked down to by the OP post. You , Sir, and I use that term loosely, have no idea as to the training and or expertise of those who read this site. Just my $.02 worth. Both My Wife and I are trained shooters, shooting together for 54 years, and both of us are Gold Medal shooters. ;)

Do you understand that it is a top 10 list of training failures IN GENERAL and to pick any one and take exception to it based on YOUR circumstance makes your argument irrelevant? Can you read? Who gives a crap if you're a gold medal shooter? The failures obviously don't apply to you, unless they do. Either way, the OP could have been a little bit more elaborate in the opening post, but he certainly did not judge any one person on this forum. He did, from his own personal experience, make a simple list. Your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE may be different, which does not make the OPs observations incorrect. Man, you need comprehension skills in addition to thinking twice before piling on. $.02
 
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Glad to say My Wife and I attended a very good school here in NM. that was taught by a Husband and Wife team. Very down to earth and to the precise point on all that was covered. Also they are available to all students at any time for advice and or answers to your questions. I personally felt talked down to by the OP post. You , Sir, and I use that term loosely, have no idea as to the training and or expertise of those who read this site. Just my $.02 worth. Both My Wife and I are trained shooters, shooting together for 54 years, and both of us are Gold Medal shooters. ;)

As an Instructor and Instructor trainer, I learn something new every day. It tells me a lot about you when you can get offended by a list without your name on it, without ever speaking to me. Not one word between you and I and you are offended by me talking down to you? I wasn't even talking to you. You came on the thread just as others and looked for a reason to hack it. And to say that you use the term Sir, loosely to me without knowing me tells me a lot about your character. Something on this list must have hit a nerve........If the shoe fits, wear it. I know this list is right and unless you can prove different, you don't know.
 
I own a school that is an Instructor Development School. I tell everyone that comes through our school that I am a Student of the Martial Arts of Firearms, I never stop training. All I do is pass on what I have learned.

Exactly my point. We can never stop learning, training and honing our skills. I know for a fact I need to get to the range. It has been a while since I have been because I have worried that I would be unable to replace what I would use up. Now that it seems that some ammo is being supplied to stores, I will try to get there.
 
4-Failure to understand situational awareness and its use. I have found this to be the main one with the people I run into. Like I said most people that carry don't seek out any other training.
 
I live in Oklahoma. It's in all states that allow any form of carry. I can tell how serous a person is by the gun and gear they have and tell me they shoot once a year. You do make it sound like it's just conceal carry people. I read that only about 5% of people that own guns get any training. The training your state mandates does not count.

3gunshooter, you are probably right about the 5%. We run about 7% return clients from our mandatory state safety course, returning to us for advanced classes. That's only 7 out of 100 that care enough to take a fundamentals class or advanced defensive shooting classes. Now out of the 7% that come to advanced classes, we get an astounding return rate of 87% taking additional advanced classes. What that tells me, is there are a limited amount of people that take training seriously.
I learned the Firearms Instructor trade as a PMI in the Marine Corps. I was the Chief PMI and Line NCO at the premier gun range in the world, Quantico, VA. The government spent a lot of money to train me to teach student shooters and student instructors. Once I got out of the service I spent a lot of money training with some well know instructors to stay current. We see the same thing in percentages with military and LEO in our school also. They only want to shoot for qualification but not a steady or continual practice of the training they have received. Fundamentals of shooting and fundamentals of self-defense are deteriorating skills when not practiced.
 
nothing like being overbearing and presumptuous

That’s how I read it as well. There’s no attempt at opening a dialogue just the OP making his pronouncement from Olympus and expecting those of us mere mortals to be in awe of his wisdom

Yep. Who is he to dictate what "properly equipped" is? Just because I carry a gun I'm now required to carry pepper spray and a taser too? Reloads? How many mags should I carry? 1? 2? A backpack full? Thanks but I can decide for myself what is right for me for the situation I'm going in to.
 
10 rounds of .22 cal in someone's chest and you have a problem. You're probably getting arrested. I'd prefer one or two from a .40. Easier to explain.

this is another extremely foolish observation.
in an SD situation I have been instructed to shoot until the threat is stopped.
if someone chooses to carry a .22 and it takes 10 rounds to stop an attacker why would that be any different from putting less rounds from a larger caliber weapon into an attacker?
and could you please explain to me why would firing the rounds needed to end a threat be grounds for an arrest?
 
Now I am certainly no expert on CC but I do a lot of "learning", whether by actual practice, reading or video. I have read over each of the points made, reread and reread again. From my "learning" and experience, each of these points makes a lot of sense. Maybe Masood would have stated them differently, but when I read each point, I see how they could lead to a "failure".
-----As I see it, just getting a CC permit is not sufficient to protect a person. Caliber can be a problem, but I venture to say that, in the hands of an accurate, trained shooter, a .22 gun with 3 or 4 quick hits to the head would stop a BG. In the hands of a newbie to guns, even a .40 S&W may not be sufficient if they don't hit the target. Several months ago, a lady was talking to her husband on the phone when someone broke into the home, she got their .380 and hit the BG with 5 of 6 shots. It didn't kill him and he ran out of the house, but it DID STOP THE THREAT. As I have learned, sufficient caliber means the largest caliber you can safely handle and accurately deploy when needed. My daughter-in-law has had numerous shoulder surgeries over the years and so is more limited than some would be in what caliber and gun she can use. I would rather she have a .38 special she can handle than a 9mm or .40 S&W with recoil too strong to safely and accurately handle.
-----I look at all of the "failure" points as I do any other post on this forum. I find that when I look at "What can I learn?" in someone's post instead of trying to see all the things I disagree with, I am surprised at how much makes sense to me of some posts. Using that frame of reference, there are a number of things I can take away from the points made in this post. What can I use to make me a better shooter and a more responsible CC advocate?
-----I don't have to remind myself very often that a slick, packaged presentation does not ensure the thoughts behind the comments, the sincerity and commitment to the thoughts expressed and the perceived benefits promised mean nothing. I see the teleprompter driven speeches of the current resident of the white house and how too frequently actions taken do not agree with the speeches. I find enough significant "food for thought" in the original post to help me be a better CC'er. Since I do not have good instructors locally, I wish Bob was close enough to give me better training.
 

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