Threatening and cell phone.

I was in the Court House today and was speaking to a deputy. The conversation got to CCW. The deputy made the following remark, If you are walking and think that a group or individual is or appears to threaten you or stop your progress, you say you armed and show your weapon and continue on your way, they (the group or individual) can call the police and report you for threatening them.

The deputy suggested that you call 911 before they do and tell them what happened. He said this way you would not be arrested. He also suggested if you carry, you should always have your cell phone with you.

Being new to this forum and CCW would appreciate any comments. This is my first post:help:
 
uhhhh....even grandparents carry a cell phone at all times...so you should too. I'm trying to not jump on the yelling troll band wagon, but this sounds like trolling to me. Don't brandish your weapon just because someone is in your way, you need to fear for serious bodily harm or death....
 
I was in the Court House today and was speaking to a deputy.

First mistake

The conversation got to CCW.

Second mistake

The deputy made the following remark, If you are walking and think that a group or individual is or appears to threaten you or stop your progress, you say you armed and show your weapon and continue on your way, they (the group or individual) can call the police and report you for threatening them.

Don't know the law in your neck of the woods but in Colorado that would be aggravated menacing



The deputy suggested that you call 911 before they do and tell them what happened. He said this way you would not be arrested.

Which is why we never get legal advice from a cop


He also suggested if you carry, you should always have your cell phone with you.

Well, even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while
 
it could be construed as brandishing a weapon in which case yes it is a very gray area and you could get in trouble for threatening somebody and or brandishing a weapon. the only time in my opinion and I believe as far as the law is concerned should you ever show your weapon is when you plan on pulling the trigger. if you posture yourself in a non aggressive but yet standing your ground type of posture and if necessary let them know that you are carrying a weapon and that you will defend yourself you shouldn't have to show them your weapon. I would in fact make a follow up by making a call to police and letting them aware of the situation only if it progressed beyond that.
 
Here's what I do, I pull out an AR-10, run through two mags. When the dust clears, and chests quit heaving......then I pull out the ole trusty
Cell phone......... Never pull your gun and "brandish" it unless it becomes an immediate danger. Take this with a grain of salt btw.
 
Realizing this is a trolling post....on a serious note. when I run through scenarios in my head I always try to think how a bystander would react to my actions....in this case.

Some guy's path gets blocked by some folks standing around and the starts waving a gun around. Walks past and runs down the street making a phone call.

This reaction....
1. makes you look crazy as all get out
2. 911 receives 14 phone calls other than your own.
 
Alright guys, the condescension on here is unnecessary. What I believe is being addressed in the question is the issue of a defensive gun use where the firearm is not discharged, as is the case in almost 98% of defensive gun uses. In that case, it is important to call at least the non-emergency number for law enforcement to report the incident because the attacker could potentially call and report you as threatening them with a firearm.

This is a very valid question, and while it could have been explained better by the deputy, his response was generally correct.
 
Again, recognizing that the OP is trolling, but answering for the benefit of any newbies who might be reading...

It's one thing if you're on a public sidewalk and there are some "suspicious" guys walking toward you. If you whip out your gun or even whip aside your jacket...you just brandished, and are very likely going to jail. You can't pull it on people just for "looking shady."

On the other hand, if it's 2am, you're going to your car (which is the only one in the lot) and 3 or 4 thugs appear out of nowhere, and "fan out" as they approach you...then you're about to get robbed. You'd better be afraid for your life, have the gun out of the holster and be moving DAMN FAST for cover, in the opposite direction of the thugs if at all possible. With any luck they'll see that you're onto them and armed, and decide they have someplace better to be.

Use your judgment. There's a difference between being a little nervous because of "suspicious characters", and being scared ***tless because of an imminent threat to your life and safety.
 
I don't think he is a troll, I have a CCW book specifically written to MN laws and the author makes the exact same suggestion. I don't know if many of you are forgetting that there are levels of threat. Your use of deadly force is justified only if the threat remains high. If you feel you are in grave danger you may draw your weapon, if the person(s) then runs like hell you can't shoot them in the back. So in that instance you drew your weapon with the intent of using as you feared for you life, however the threat level immediately dropped and you didn't need it. Do you prefer the police hear this story from the potential attacker(s) or you?

OP that was a valid question and good advice. Now if you just think someone or a group is shady looking and you show your weapon you could get in trouble...but I think you may have been going for a different scenario?
 
This is a situation where thorough knowlege of your state laws is required. If your state laws define those actions as brandishing or menacing, it doesn't matter what that deputy told you or who you call , you will be guilty of breaking the law and subject to the whims of a D.A. as to wether you will be charged or not. I recommend you go to your state legislature website and read the law for yourself.
 
This is going to be a stupid question ... But Can someone kindly explain what "trolling" is ? I'm not familiar with this term
 
Nothing in the world wrong with using said cell phone and saying loud enough for someone to hear "I'm being followed. This guy is making me nervous. He's wearing...." And if that doesn't seem to deter him, adding "I'm armed, but I really don't want to have to shoot him."
 
Welcome! My first reply/post too!

I've been reading for so long I thought I had posted or responded before - and I wasn't even registered! Thanks for prompting me to!

The Deputy was in essence correct, depending on fairly wide variations in different State's laws. In some areas, even saying "you are armed" is both a "terroristic threat" and "open display" (not in Texas for the latter). In general, visual or verbal warnings are not recommended or well treated by law.

If it gets bad enough to shoot - shoot. Warnings are civil and would seem to avoid a serious problem, but rarely have all that much effect and warn your opponent, as well as possibly giving them legal options if they do cease their hostility.

Now as to whether you have a cell or not, that's your choice. I often don't have anything but ID, a gun, some cash/CC and car keys.

As far as your particular situation, carrying a small pistol, if a person or group was approaching I would discreetly get it out and hide it but have it ready. I'd get out of the way to avoid them getting too close, but if they did, frankly, it's on. Your only realistic "perfect defense" against this kind of threat is to avoid the areas and situations where this is likely to happen.

That seems extreme or odd, maybe. It means you really shouldn't go to many of the cool night spots, maybe some interesting areas in your city - even choose alternate places of work or residence. A lot of people love to walk or run or see all the great things a big city offers, but they often do so at the risk of their safety or freedom. Stay in the car, choose safer alternatives or accept the risks.

Honestly though, there's no panacea or "Chuck Norris/Law&Order" solution to the relatively rare bold, confrontational criminal - particularly a group of them. Remember these are often teenagers working themselves into a murderous state, as recently happened to a guy here in Dallas. The oldest of this little impromptu gang was 14, their victim was 19. No amount of threats would have stopped them, but a gun would have - and he would have then been arrested for murdering helpless children and sued by their mystified relatives.

Your gun is you ability to avoid getting killed, but not a lot of use before that - not with perfect legal consequences. Our body of law across the Country, 50 States and 6 Possessions has simply not caught up to the realities of some lowlife in some of our urban areas - and it's not likely to soon. We release people with excessively violent histories and pamper them with legal options to be more effectively violent and frown on more appropriate use of force, including deadly force, at such brigands. Avoid the areas where they are; absolutely be armed if you can't.

The gun at least, used at the proper time, let's you survive a criminal encounter, but not fully escape all damages from one.

I was in the Court House today and was speaking to a deputy. The conversation got to CCW. The deputy made the following remark, If you are walking and think that a group or individual is or appears to threaten you or stop your progress, you say you armed and show your weapon and continue on your way, they (the group or individual) can call the police and report you for threatening them.

The deputy suggested that you call 911 before they do and tell them what happened. He said this way you would not be arrested. He also suggested if you carry, you should always have your cell phone with you.

Being new to this forum and CCW would appreciate any comments. This is my first post:help:
 
What you should do is openly carry, and then if you are in this situation, put your hand on your firearm, smile, and look relaxed. If anyone questions you, you can tell them your arm was tired and you were just resting your hand in a comfortable position.

Sarcasm aside, if the situation is indeed a threat to you, you should be the first to call 911. Everyone's threat level will be slightly different, so that level is up to you.
 
The OP lives in Colorado, and he is willing to risk a felony charge and his only defense is "I called 911 first"? Bad advice.
 
Deserteagle:287211 said:
The OP lives in Colorado, and he is willing to risk a felony charge and his only defense is "I called 911 first"? Bad advice.

He didn't say he would do this. He stated the officer said, "if you tell someone you are armed and show them your handgun, and then go about your business, they can call the police and you will get in trouble." The officer stated he should not brandish, and should always have a means of communication, and if anything bad were to happen, that we should be the first to call 911.

No where in the OP did he state he did, or will, brandish a firearm.

At least that is the way I read it...others are probably right that he is a troll...I'd be amazed if he posted again...
 
I missed the fact that the OP was in Colorado. Colorado has some fairly strict felony menacing laws. There was on case that I referenced earlier in which a man was charged w/ felony menacing for simply placing his hand over his jacket where a gun would be.

Way back in the day when I first started carrying I was involved in a road rage incident, at one point I showed the guy my holstered firearm as a deterrent. I was told by the responding officer that if the guy chose to press charges or called 911 (the other driver was long gone buy the time the cops got there) I was the one who was going to jail.

I learned from that and I learned well

If you can not articulate clearly "This person did this specific thing that made me feel that my life was imminent danger, you have no business drawing that gun
 
I was in the Court House today and was speaking to a deputy. The conversation got to CCW. The deputy made the following remark, If you are walking and think that a group or individual is or appears to threaten you or stop your progress, you say you armed and show your weapon and continue on your way, they (the group or individual) can call the police and report you for threatening them.

The deputy suggested that you call 911 before they do and tell them what happened. He said this way you would not be arrested. He also suggested if you carry, you should always have your cell phone with you.

Being new to this forum and CCW would appreciate any comments. This is my first post:help:

Never ask a cop ...They always have a different answer
 
His advice is sound a far as to carry a cell a well. Be sure not to make idol threats. If you ever have to clear leather be sure that you re willing to use it. At the same time when you do that 911 should be our next move.
 
What you should do is openly carry, and then if you are in this situation, put your hand on your firearm, smile, and look relaxed. If anyone questions you, you can tell them your arm was tired and you were just resting your hand in a comfortable position.

Sarcasm aside, if the situation is indeed a threat to you, you should be the first to call 911. Everyone's threat level will be slightly different, so that level is up to you.
Yeah.... surely it is OK for the average person to "rest" their hand on their gun.... after all so many folks have said that when the cops "rest" their hands on their guns it's perfectly OK! Nothing to worry about! It's not a threatening gesture at all!!!! And anyone who might be concerned to see a cop with his hand on their gun is being paranoid because... hey... it's a cop so it's perfectly OK!!!

Enough of that.... but there is this...

I don't know about the laws in other States but Michigan allows the defensive use of "force other than deadly force"... of course what that means in an individual case would be discovered in court... but perhaps making the presence of a gun known to the bad guy and/or the willingness to use a gun apparent, regardless of how that is done, could be considered legal "force other than deadly force" in Michigan.



PRESUMPTION REGARDING SELF-DEFENSE (EXCERPT)
Act 311 of 2006


780.951 Individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force; presumption; definitions.

Sec. 1.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:
-snip-

Full text of the actual law can be read:

Michigan Legislature - Section 780.951
 

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