Thoughts on CCW Guardian Logbook?


shadowd123

New member
So, I have been working with an App on my phone... Its handy but I am not sure if its all its cracked up to be. Can anyone give me some feedback on if they have used it and what they think of it.. Maybe I am not using it right Lol!

I guess the idea is to be able to log when you go shoot and it has all these options for features etc... Anyway, someone please see if you can offer some assistance with this app!

When I downloaded it they had links to its information, Ill share them here for anyone that wants to look at it.


http://bit.ly/I1Hd1Y <-- App Store
https://ccwguardian.com/ and this is their site.

Like I said they gave me a lot of information. However I am not sure if I am using it to the fullest. Hopefully someone can assist me!

 

vernsimpson

New member
With all the hackers out there I really do not know if this is a good idea. Also IF or when you have to use your firearm to protect your family and/or yourself, I believe a ambitious Prosecutor could use this training log against you if he got hold of it.

While it may be a great training aid, I do not think I will download it.
 
Right now at the App Store, only eleven ( 11 ) people are using the application.
While it carries a 5 star review from all eleven users, I would want a bit more feedback than that before I purchased the app.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.
 

shadowd123

New member
Right now at the App Store, only eleven ( 11 ) people are using the application.
While it carries a 5 star review from all eleven users, I would want a bit more feedback than that before I purchased the app.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

I think thats just the people that have rated. I would say that many more have downloaded it. The only reason why I say that is its currently ranked #16 of all sports apps. So, idk how it could be that high if only 11 people got it. I would be one of them too so essentially 10 others? Regardless within the app they let you send feedback. I sent a question to it and had someone send me info in about an hour.

If nothing else there informed individuals.
 

shadowd123

New member
With all the hackers out there I really do not know if this is a good idea. Also IF or when you have to use your firearm to protect your family and/or yourself, I believe a ambitious Prosecutor could use this training log against you if he got hold of it.

While it may be a great training aid, I do not think I will download it.

The online stuff is apparently a paid service... (Sadly) however if you are concerned about getting hacked theres nothing to hack if you don't subscribe.
 
I think thats just the people that have rated. I would say that many more have downloaded it. The only reason why I say that is its currently ranked #16 of all sports apps. So, idk how it could be that high if only 11 people got it. I would be one of them too so essentially 10 others? Regardless within the app they let you send feedback. I sent a question to it and had someone send me info in about an hour.

If nothing else there informed individuals.

Touché my friend. You are correct. It's not how many own the app, just how many reviewed the app!
As an iPhone user you would think I would know better.... (Brain Fart on my part!)


Sent from behind enemy lines.
 
The online stuff is apparently a paid service... (Sadly) however if you are concerned about getting hacked theres nothing to hack if you don't subscribe.

Apple does a good job at software vetting so that end users aren't taken for a ride so to speak.
Supposedly nothing makes it out of the App Store unless its safe for consumer use. Same goes for their computers too.
If you are using Mac, I've heard you pretty much HAVE to deliberately download a virus to get it on your computer.


Sent from behind enemy lines.
 

shadowd123

New member
Apple does a good job at software vetting so that end users aren't taken for a ride so to speak.
Supposedly nothing makes it out of the App Store unless its safe for consumer use. Same goes for their computers too.
If you are using Mac, I've heard you pretty much HAVE to deliberately download a virus to get it on your computer.


Sent from behind enemy lines.

That is very true, in fact I am on a mac and I know that they don't really make virus's on it... However if you download one generally its only a .exe virus that cant even run on a mac. So your pretty much safe on any apple product. Or at least have a very rare chance.

Have you downloaded the app to see if its any good?
 

wolf_fire

New member
<---- scratches his head. Ponders and then wonders why people don't just carry a small notebook and jot down how they did at the range if they are interested in keeping a log.
 

dblock

New member
how is that different than registering your gun ? you know the feds will hack it and get your serial # i stick with pen and paper and log my training.
 

shadowd123

New member
<---- scratches his head. Ponders and then wonders why people don't just carry a small notebook and jot down how they did at the range if they are interested in keeping a log.

Well, If you go watch the video for the app
its much more then just random questions... Plus its all readable, organized, documentable. Sooo I mean its just easier. besides notebooks can be easily forgotten, destroyed, lost. Also the app lets you add photos to the notes so you can take a pic of your target and attach it straight on your log.
 

shadowd123

New member
how is that different than registering your gun ? you know the feds will hack it and get your serial # i stick with pen and paper and log my training.

You don't have to put your SN in the app, no SN no threat if thats what you are worried about.
 

wolf_fire

New member
Well, If you go watch the video for the app its much more then just random questions... Plus its all readable, organized, documentable. Sooo I mean its just easier. besides notebooks can be easily forgotten, destroyed, lost. Also the app lets you add photos to the notes so you can take a pic of your target and attach it straight on your log.

We've lost much liberty AND security for mere convenience. Why in the world would I want to create a permanent, hackable, electronic copy of all my firearms training that anyone could use against me for whatever purpose?

Oh yeah, convenience, ease, comfort. It's not that hard to take a picture of your target, jot notes down in a notebook, and if you truly want an electronic copy of your work, to do it on your own computer. Sure it's an added step, but shoot, I enjoy the 4th Amendment and try to keep my person, my possessions, and my papers secure.
 

shadowd123

New member
We've lost much liberty AND security for mere convenience. Why in the world would I want to create a permanent, hackable, electronic copy of all my firearms training that anyone could use against me for whatever purpose?

Oh yeah, convenience, ease, comfort. It's not that hard to take a picture of your target, jot notes down in a notebook, and if you truly want an electronic copy of your work, to do it on your own computer. Sure it's an added step, but shoot, I enjoy the 4th Amendment and try to keep my person, my possessions, and my papers secure.

Well the good thing is, I think the data is stored locally on the phone. I know you can have stuff sent to a mobile site, however that's an extra fee so that tells me that they are not going to just want to store everyone's stuff for free. So I guess I wont be paying for that feature either as I like my security as well. Now, since I don't have to put info in that I don't want someone else to see. I just wont put it in.

I personally have nothing to hide but like you that doesn't mean I want someone snooping around. I just think the app makes it a little better with the stats and such it produces for me.
 

GoRedSox

New member
I purchased the app today and was surprised to learn that Reed & Ward collects info from the app - I should have read the fine print a bit more closely. It seemed like a good tool to keep track of training, keeping photos of targets for scoring, etc.

I am very uncomfortable with any third party keeping & accessing info re: my firearms (model & S/N), my location, etc. I see no benefit for me to have any of my personal info stored on their server. I would use this if it was a stand alone app with all data residing on my phone ONLY. Looks like this app is going to the trash bin.
 

Dunewolf

New member
That is very true, in fact I am on a mac and I know that they don't really make virus's on it... However if you download one generally its only a .exe virus that cant even run on a mac. So your pretty much safe on any apple product. Or at least have a very rare chance.

Have you downloaded the app to see if its any good?

Uhm to think Macs don't get a virus easily - your sadly mistaken... Apple based OS's are currently under constant attack because of the rise of apple products (iphone/mac/Ipad/etc). From all sources of security information I read on a regular basis - An Apple OS system can be just as easily hacked as Windoze and Linux. It only takes a hacker bored enough or determined enough to do it.. (whichever works best)

Oh and Anti virus software - Only protects against known threats, not new unknown stuff generally. Even with the best AV software out their and fully patched system, its best to always practice safe browsing habits to unknown sources - and sometimes even to known safe websites. As I read about a Java exploit that was being used on a rather big website and it infected thousands before it was found.

sorry to get off topic about the app thing.. :) but had to be mentioned.
 

wolf_fire

New member
I purchased the app today and was surprised to learn that Reed & Ward collects info from the app - I should have read the fine print a bit more closely. It seemed like a good tool to keep track of training, keeping photos of targets for scoring, etc.

I am very uncomfortable with any third party keeping & accessing info re: my firearms (model & S/N), my location, etc. I see no benefit for me to have any of my personal info stored on their server. I would use this if it was a stand alone app with all data residing on my phone ONLY. Looks like this app is going to the trash bin.

Imagine that, a price to pay for sheer convenience. ;-)
 

wolf_fire

New member
Well the good thing is, I think the data is stored locally on the phone. I know you can have stuff sent to a mobile site, however that's an extra fee so that tells me that they are not going to just want to store everyone's stuff for free. So I guess I wont be paying for that feature either as I like my security as well. Now, since I don't have to put info in that I don't want someone else to see. I just wont put it in.

I personally have nothing to hide but like you that doesn't mean I want someone snooping around. I just think the app makes it a little better with the stats and such it produces for me.

Hmmm, maybe you should read GoRedSox's post. If a third party is accessing your info, it stands to reason, the feds can get their grimy mitts on it too. Next time when it comes to your liberties and your security, rather than "thinking", you should be "knowing". If you can't know, than distrust.

I purchased the app today and was surprised to learn that Reed & Ward collects info from the app - I should have read the fine print a bit more closely. It seemed like a good tool to keep track of training, keeping photos of targets for scoring, etc.

I am very uncomfortable with any third party keeping & accessing info re: my firearms (model & S/N), my location, etc. I see no benefit for me to have any of my personal info stored on their server. I would use this if it was a stand alone app with all data residing on my phone ONLY. Looks like this app is going to the trash bin.
 

DavidBirchmier

New member
We do NOT collect store any information

I purchased the app today and was surprised to learn that Reed & Ward collects info from the app - I should have read the fine print a bit more closely. It seemed like a good tool to keep track of training, keeping photos of targets for scoring, etc.

I am very uncomfortable with any third party keeping & accessing info re: my firearms (model & S/N), my location, etc. I see no benefit for me to have any of my personal info stored on their server. I would use this if it was a stand alone app with all data residing on my phone ONLY. Looks like this app is going to the trash bin.

@GoRedSox

Thanks for taking the time to write and share your opinion on this forum. My name is David Birchmier, and I'm part of the team at CCW Guardian. Our Google Alerts picked up this thread today and I'm glad I found it because I wanted to take a moment to dispel some incorrect information. I'm also here to answer any other questions you might have.

Before I begin -
We stand behind and support our product. If you are not happy with CCW Guardian please let us know by contacting us at feedback[at]ccwguardian.com or by reaching out directly in the app via the Feedback icon. We would be happy to refund your purchase if you find the product is lacking in an area that is important to you.

Regarding the "Storing of Personal Information":
CCW Guardian has an OPTIONAL Sync to Web Feature which allows you to sync your data to secure servers, transmitted over SSL and encrypted on both ends. We understand that not all users want this feature which is why we wanted to be very clear that this is an optional feature and NOT enabled by default. (Actually, as of writing, this feature has not even been released yet. So, you couldn't sync your data to our servers even if you wanted to.)

If you read our Privacy Policy & notice the lines about collecting data, that is what it is referring to. I am going to have the team review the Privacy Policy to assure that is completely clear.
If you do NOT choose to use our sync feature, we collect NO DATA other than your email address which serves as a form of authentication to open the app along with your password. You CAN use the App offline. It does NOT require a connection to our servers for any functionality. (Other than to auto-detect the current weather conditions, also optional)

Regarding entering the Serial # of your Handgun/Identifiable Information:
Any Private/Identifiable Information Fields are OPTIONAL. For example, you can enter your serial # if you want, or you can skip it.
If you DO choose to enter your Serial #, it immediately becomes masked. In order for you (or anyone else) to view it again, you must enter your password. We understand that keeping your handgun's information private is critical and have gone to great lengths to assure you are secure and your data is private.

Based on your feedback, and some of the misconceptions I have read on this forum we are going to use your suggestions to improve our FAQ (https://ccwguardian.com/faq.php) and make sure that the functionality and options of the app are more clearly outlined -- We definitely care deeply about privacy and understand that our users do as well. We have gone to great lengths to ensure that you can be as isolated, or as connected as you desire. In fact, we even blocked out the ability for iCloud to connect to CCW Guardian. Your data resides ONLY on your phone, unless you wish to enable the sync-to-web option in the future.


Do you have any suggestions for improvements we could make?
We are very receptive to feedback and pride ourselves on taking the time to listen to our users and implement their feedback to improve CCW Guardian. If you have any suggestions, I hope that you'll write to us at: feedback[at]ccwguardian.com or use the app to submit feedback directly to us. I can promise that we will not only listen, but also respond to every email we receive.

Again, I want to thank you for taking the time to discuss CCW Guardian here on these forums. I'm going to hang around to answer questions. I'm not here to make a sales pitch, I just want to assure people are getting the right information in order to make an informed decision.

Let me know if you have any other questions I can help out with. I hope everyone had a good weekend and a fair Monday thus far!
 

wolf_fire

New member
If this David Birchmier person is indeed a legitimate representative of this company (part of the team (no title), and no contact info... I'm naturally dubious), then maybe what I have replied to shadowd123 could have been a bit premature. If this is the case, I apologize.

But the fact that there is the ability to access info and and have data be transmitted, still does not sit well with me. Sure you can use the app offline, but what happens when you go back online? Take this into consideration when it's just as easy to bring your notebook to the range and write everything down. I still find it easier to pick up a pen and jot a note down rather than unlock my phone, turn on an app, sign into the app and then begin. Oh wait, did I disable my Internet so I make sure no data is shared?? Maybe I'm old school, maybe I'm cynical, but if you need more convenience than a notebook and a pen, *shrugs*, you take certain risks. Anything that is online is accessible to the right people.

I also went to the FAQ section of the CCWGuardian website. They talk of protecting yourself through training and their app will be a good record of the training you've done with each of your firearms. So your training record can and will now be used in court to show how much you've trained. Well this can necessarily have the reverse effect too. What if you get into a SD issue with a new gun or one that you didn't train as much with? Any good lawyer will chew on this like a hungry dog on a bone and show that you were inadequately trained with this or that specific weapon. After reading this, I'm convinced I do not want my training electronically recorded for anyone to subpoena.

They try to make the analogy that LE record their training like this app does to protect themselves in court. Yes and no. Once a LEO has qualified with a certain weapon, the actual score is destroyed. All the record says is that the LEO has passed. This way the details of the training cannot be hashed out in court. If you have a detailed account of your training recorded electronically, what if you have a bad day at the range one day? I would not want that showing up in court.
 

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