This is not "stand your ground"

[the dark]

I know - we do not know the Link Removed yet - but I still have to ask when are people going to realize the damage they are doing to our right to protect ourselves? I see another case of "If you would not go there without a gun, do not go there with one". And "If you feel threatened, drive away".

Everytime I see one of these stories I feel as if some of us are our own worst enemies.

 

[The_Outlaw]

I know - we do not know the Link Removed yet - but I still have to ask when are people going to realize the damage they are doing to our right to protect ourselves? I see another case of "If you would not go there without a gun, do not go there with one". And "If you feel threatened, drive away".

Everytime I see one of these stories I feel as if some of us are our own worst enemies.

I somewhat agree with you... However, I must also ask,

When are people going to learn that when this 'gangster rap generation' continues to go around freely acting like street thugs & go out 'looking for trouble' they will sometimes find trouble with a capital 'T' when they finally mess with the wrong person.

Many people (myself included) are getting pretty sick & tired of all of this very disrespectful gangsta rap mentality with it's wanna be bad a$$ street thug bull$hit.
I'm fairly certain that these so called 'innocent teens' in the SUV (most assuredly with the very loud gangster rap music and it's very offensive & explicit lyrics) were not quite as innocent as they are being made out to be in this tragic situation.
They must have said and done 'something very inappropriate' to spark this violent encounter imvho.

There are no winners here, everybody loses.

 

[WingRider]

I read the article (thank you for the link). I know media reports are usually inaccurate. That said, and barring any other data, my first thought is "Who cares if someone plays loud music at a convenience store parking lot?" Why engage a potential threat, thereby playing the initial aggressor? Also would YOU leave the scene of a shooting in which you were an actor (assuming you weren't fleeing a few hundred yards to safety)? Would you fire your weapon at a person and neglect to notify the police? Something is really 'Off' with this whole story (the linked one). I suspect that somebody in the back seat flashed a weapon and the shooter reacted. All of that aside, nobody won here. One dead, one in jail. Two lives and two families damaged or destroyed. And, it likely could have been avoided by either party.

 

[mappow]

I don't know, anything I say could and would be used against me.
I have had an incident at a gas station were a wanna-be pulled up at the next pump over. He cranked up his music (if that's want you want to call it) parked and opened his door. THE SOUND WAS DEAFENING. He look over at me and I said REALLY.......could you please turn that down some? After the punk stare, he turned around and turned it down closed the door then turned at me smiled and walked into the store. I would not have let it escalate passed what it did BUT..........I was extremely cautious when he turned around from the truck after turning it down. As well as scoped him out toe to head to assess if he was carrying or not.
After I pulled out an left, I did kind of kick myself for getting involved. I should of just shut up, pumped gas and went on my way. Had it escalated, I would have been the instigator, possibly, and charged accordingly if the SHTF.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Not enough information, too many holes...but what the hell lets start judging away now like Zimmerman and Martin. Makes it a whole lot more fun...Oh yeah what ever happened to Z vs M? I guess no one cares anymore...

 

[Glockout]

I feel bad for the guy who shot this thug wannabe. We've all been there. Sitting in the gas station and some slime ball is blaring that crap music so loud with all its obscenities and then you look around and see children with their families and everything. Everyone wants to say something but they are too scared and the moment you do, you are the aggressor? I think his music was the aggressor. And should be treated as such. This guy lost his cool and will now spend a good deal of time in prison. It's too bad. I can say this though: one less guy to have to worry about loud music from!

 

[the dark]

I agree - not enough info and said so. I agree on the thug mentality and the loud music, and pants below the ass and so on...but we can hardly be the armed enforcers of such things - that is hardly consistent with self-defense law. My only point is that "stand your ground" ends up at risk when it is used capriciously. Yes, facts are needed, but the idea that he fired from his car, into another car, after choosing to engage in this situation, then drove off and so on...I say again, first be sure it is your fight...if you would not confront a carload of young thugs when unarmed do not do so armed. If you have to defend yourself, driving away without contacting authorities only to be found when they trace your tag...irresponsible on many levels. What facts would make this full package seem correct?

 

[cluznar]

Ya can't shoot someone for loud music no matter how much you want. Best to try and ignore them. Police should be stricter on these idiots and give them tickets every time they hear them. These thugs are mental.

:triniti:

 

[K7lvo]

There are usually a few arrogant punks in any crowd who do whatever it takes to make it unpleasant for those around them, whether it's deafening music or other loud and/or obnoxious behavior in a public place, putting their feet on the back of your seat (i.e., beside your head!) at the theater, or whatever... In today's society, there is little to nothing we can do where we don't risk an assault, at the least. And if some young delinquent does assault us, society puts us at fault for reacting, in the first place, and if we choose to defend ourselves with a weapon, instead of taking our deserved beating... Every time this happens, the punks get bolder and more offensive.

I don't know how to change this... I'm not sure there's a way to change it without an "overhaul" of society... I'm open to suggestions...

 

[Glockout]

Ya can't shoot someone for loud music no matter how much you want. Best to try and ignore them. Police should be stricter on these idiots and give them tickets every time they hear them. These thugs are mental.

:triniti:

They should charge these thugs for instigating violence. What's the difference if the profanity comes from the mouth of the retard or the stereo for which he controls? I consider it highly offensive and aggressive.

 

[mappow]

IF the kid in the back seat was just jerking around and went to draw a nonexistent weapon. The man did have cause. IN FEAR OF ONE'S LIFE.............. Not sure the rest of the story but I could see the event as unfolding and engagement only tenths of a second worth of thought. Choices, we all have choices.

 

[Rhino]

I don't know, anything I say could and would be used against me.
I have had an incident at a gas station were a wanna-be pulled up at the next pump over. He cranked up his music (if that's want you want to call it) parked and opened his door. THE SOUND WAS DEAFENING. He look over at me and I said REALLY.......could you please turn that down some? After the punk stare, he turned around and turned it down closed the door then turned at me smiled and walked into the store. I would not have let it escalate passed what it did BUT..........I was extremely cautious when he turned around from the truck after turning it down. As well as scoped him out toe to head to assess if he was carrying or not.
After I pulled out an left, I did kind of kick myself for getting involved. I should of just shut up, pumped gas and went on my way. Had it escalated, I would have been the instigator, possibly, and charged accordingly if the SHTF.

How on earth does that make you the instigator? What has this country come to when asking someone for a little common courtesy is now considered to be an instigation? RIDICULOUS!
.

Not enough information, too many holes...but what the hell lets start judging away now like Zimmerman and Martin. Makes it a whole lot more fun...Oh yeah what ever happened to Z vs M? I guess no one cares anymore...

My thoughts exactly, though running away was a bonehead move.

 

[leadsender]

I just love how some posters on this forum start out by saying we don't have enough information and then proceed to tear down the person character by calling them wanna be gangsters, thugs, rappers or assuming that someone pulled or made a move like they were pulling a weapon. I wonder what type of reaction there would be if the article read black man pulls gun and shoots four long haired white kids for play that loud rock n roll Led Z music. After all, that were playing there music loud and had long hair. To the poster that is so tired of. I am tired too. Tired of people assuming that because of the skin that I am in that I am a gangster, thug, criminal or less than you. I don't have enough information but, it just does not feel right to shoot into the back of a car then run off. That goes against all that I have been taught about an after incident shooting.

 

[Glockout]

I just love how some posters on this forum start out by saying we don't have enough information and then proceed to tear down the person character by calling them wanna be gangsters, thugs, rappers or assuming that someone pulled or made a move like they were pulling a weapon. I wonder what type of reaction there would be if the article read black man pulls gun and shoots four long haired white kids for play that loud rock n roll Led Z music. After all, that were playing there music loud and had long hair. To the poster that is so tired of. I am tired too. Tired of people assuming that because of the skin that I am in that I am a gangster, thug, criminal or less than you. I don't have enough information but, it just does not feel right to shoot into the back of a car then run off. That goes against all that I have been taught about an after incident shooting.

Heavy metal and rock and roll doesn't, in a clear concise manner so everyone can hear and understand what they are saying, "hoes and bitches, mother **** this and mother **** that, I want to stick my **** in that bitches ***** and **** her mother in the ass. While making that money, killing niggas and honkeys, making that money from selling my drugs and I don't give a ****. Because i's be's a nigga and I ain't skeered of no ******* body especially cops that I shoot in their mother ******* ass". It's aggressive in its tone, aggressive in its lyrics and causes people to be on edge. What's the worst you hear in heavy metal or rock and roll? Loud guitars with vocals you can't understand. Skin color doesn't mean anything. If I saw white kids doing the same, I would feel the same.

And really? You're going to compare this gangster crap to Led Zepplin?

Led Zepplin-Dazed and Confused
Been Dazed and Confused for so long it's not true.
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you.
Lots of people talk and few of them know,
soul of a woman was created below.

You hurt and abuse tellin' all of your lies.
Run around sweet baby, Lord how they hypnotize.
Sweet little baby, I don't know where you've been.
Gonna love you baby, here I come again.

Every day I work so hard, bringin' home my hard earned pay
Try to love you baby, but you push me away.
Don't know where you're goin', only know just where you've been,
Sweet little baby, I want you again.

Been dazed and confused for so long, it's not true.
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you.
Take it easy baby, let them say what they will.
Will your tongue wag so much when I send you the bill?


Yeah, that's highly offensive!!!! Talking about love and the deception around it.

NWA- **** the Police
Why don't you tell everybody what the **** you gotta say?

**** tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

**** that ****, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigga on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath

**** the Police (x4)

See the difference? This is just the type of music I want my children listening to at every gas station, car wash, Walmart, etc i go to. And this song is tame compared to some of the garbage I hear now.

 

[leadsender]

Lets not get this thing twisted as the kids say and by the way I DO NOT LIKE RAP. Led Z was just a name I threw out there. Buy the way I do like stair way to heaven. What if the name(s) would have been Marilyn Manson, Mega Deth, Bathory, Judas Priest or Black Sabbath just to name a few. The point is that you do not go around shooting people becasue they play there music to loud or there music does not fit your style. If that was the case, I wouuld be shooting up the city all day long because I heard music from other people two blocks before they got to me. You don't shoot people becasue there hair is long or because you perceive them as something other. Buy the way there was music called positive rap. Positive rap did not last long because the powers to be in the music industry found that they could make more money being negative. On another small note the, one of the biggest purchasers of rap and gangster rap are young white kids.

Heavy metal and rock and roll doesn't, in a clear concise manner so everyone can hear and understand what they are saying, "hoes and bitches, mother **** this and mother **** that, I want to stick my **** in that bitches ***** and **** her mother in the ass. While making that money, killing niggas and honkeys, making that money from selling my drugs and I don't give a ****. Because i's be's a nigga and I ain't skeered of no ******* body especially cops that I shoot in their mother ******* ass". It's aggressive in its tone, aggressive in its lyrics and causes people to be on edge. What's the worst you hear in heavy metal or rock and roll? Loud guitars with vocals you can't understand. Skin color doesn't mean anything. If I saw white kids doing the same, I would feel the same.

And really? You're going to compare this gangster crap to Led Zepplin?

Led Zepplin-Dazed and Confused
Been Dazed and Confused for so long it's not true.
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you.
Lots of people talk and few of them know,
soul of a woman was created below.

You hurt and abuse tellin' all of your lies.
Run around sweet baby, Lord how they hypnotize.
Sweet little baby, I don't know where you've been.
Gonna love you baby, here I come again.

Every day I work so hard, bringin' home my hard earned pay
Try to love you baby, but you push me away.
Don't know where you're goin', only know just where you've been,
Sweet little baby, I want you again.

Been dazed and confused for so long, it's not true.
Wanted a woman, never bargained for you.
Take it easy baby, let them say what they will.
Will your tongue wag so much when I send you the bill?


Yeah, that's highly offensive!!!! Talking about love and the deception around it.

NWA- **** the Police
Why don't you tell everybody what the **** you gotta say?

**** tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

**** that ****, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk muthafucka with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what
Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any muthafucka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigga on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath

**** the Police (x4)

See the difference? This is just the type of music I want my children listening to at every gas station, car wash, Walmart, etc i go to. And this song is tame compared to some of the garbage I hear now.

 

[Glockout]

]Lets not get this thing twisted as the kids say and by the way I DO NOT LIKE RAP. Led Z was just a name I threw out there. Buy the way I do like stair way to heaven. What if the name(s) would have been Marilyn Manson, Mega Deth, Bathory, Judas Priest or Black Sabbath just to name a few. The point is that you do not go around shooting people becasue they play there music to loud or there music does not fit your style. If that was the case, I wouuld be shooting up the city all day long because I heard music from other people two blocks before they got to me. You don't shoot people becasue there hair is long
or because you perceive them as something other. Buy the way there was music called positive rap. Positive rap did not last long because the powers to be in the music industry found that they could make more money being negative. On another small note the, one of the biggest purchasers of rap and gangster rap are young white kids.[/QUOTE]

Marilyn Manson, Mega Deth, Bathory, Judas Priest or Black Sabbath just to name a few.

Like I said, you can't understand with such clarity as rap, what the vocalist is saying on most metal type music. And the level of profanity in rap is outrageously more than that of metal or rock. I'm certain Megadeth has used profanity in very few songs. I know for a fact on the albums "rust in peace, countdown to extinction, peace sells, and killing is my business", there is almost none. And never the F word. Black Sabbath never swore in any of their albums. Marilyn Manson? Sure, but between the grinding, whiny guitars, you can't understand him.

Positive rap did not last long because the powers to be in the music industry found that they could make more money being negative.

Not more money, more hate and violence between people. Money can be made any way they choose to spin their image be it positive or negative. If its cool to be positive through the music, they would make money and vice versa. Thank you elite, evil powers behind the music industry that did this. The music industry is just a slave to them.

On another small note the, one of the biggest purchasers of rap and gangster rap are young white kids.

One of the biggest purchasers? So who is the biggest purchasers? Young black men? Who's the third biggest purchasers? Orientals? That's like saying "one of the biggest purchasers of heavy metal music is young black men". I suppose that is true since it is a primarily white music medium. How about "a lot of white kids listen to rap"?

My original point stands. Young black, white, Asian, mid eastern men who blare this garbage in public next to families whose head of those families are men, are inciting violence by exposing these families children to the level of profanity and disgust involved with rap music. If I had a young son/daughter, I would lose control if I went to a gas station and I heard this garbage, knowing my child was also hearing it. And these young people who play this music know that. That's why they do it. To get a rise out of people. Who in their right mind likes the sound of bass beating so hard it shakes the skin on your ear drums to the point of making you itch? Nobody does. It hurts.

 

[Panheadzz]

What's the matter with Ozzy chewing off a couple chicken heads??

 

[Glockout]

What's the matter with Ozzy chewing off a couple chicken heads??

Did he do that at a gas station where my family is? No, at a concert where the message is clear. There will be adult oriented themes.

 

[Panheadzz]

Come on lighten up. I just don't pay attention to idiots that play that type of music. If they want to play it loud who cares. Now if they were playing Red House by Jimi or Stevie Ray, I would be dancing by the pumps. I am not going to jeapardize my life or my families to confront anyone for something so trivial as loud music no matter what type, whether I like it or not. It just ain't worth it. Fill up or don't and go. You better home school your kids and keep them locked up because by the time they are 7 they have been exposed to more than you care to know.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Dumb and dumber

But I agree, we need more details