This is Not Good for Us

This just makes me wonder: With all the rush of people going out to get CCW permits and the like I imagine the same is happening with people wanting to get Instructor permits. Just because you have an instructor permit doesn't mean you should be instructing people. I'm sure there are plenty of great instructors out there but now there are probably more than a few that shouldn't be teaching.
This guy looks like he's been doing it awhile but as a 73-yr old who "runs a shooting range and training center" there is no excuse for an accident like this. Sure mistakes happen but when you do this for a living there's no reason why that gun shouldn't have been safety checked and cleared before that class started.
 
All I can say is that I am thankful that my state doesn't put me at risk by forcing me to get training from these dangerous instructors before I can get a permit.

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Blues
 
There should not have been a reason to have his finger on the trigger.

In my class the instructor had us keep our guns in our car or up against the wall at the front of the class. I don't think we even looked at a real gun inside of the classroom. There is just not any need for it. Everyone there should already know how to handle a firearm. Any demonstrations were done using a fake gun.

This might be a case of someone getting too comfortable and slacking off on safety. Just because nothing has happened before does not mean that it cannot or will not happen in the future.
 
Peggy Reist said:
In all fairness, he didn't point it at the student. It ricocheted off a desk. But this does not excuse him either.
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Not so fast. I'm gonna be very hard on this guy. First no ammo is allowed in the classroom during any gun course. No loaded guns are allowed either. Period. No exceptions. Live ammo is introduced at the range only. Second, he did not maintain a safe direction. A safe direction is a solid wall, not a desk or anything else. Third, this is not an accident. This is flagrant negligence. Had he followed the three basic rules it would not, could not happen:
.
1 - Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2 - Always keep your finger of the trigger.
3 - Do not load the gun until ready to use it.
.
Terry J. Dunlap Sr., who runs a shooting range and training center at 6995 Coonpath Rd. near Lancaster, was demonstrating a handgun when he fired a .38-caliber bullet that ricocheted off a desk and into student Michael Piemonte’s right arm.
.
Dunlap apparently didn’t know that the gun was loaded, Piemonte said — “That’s my guess.”
.
No charges have been filed. An incident report filed by the responding deputy with the county sheriff’s office called it an accidental shooting.
 
BC1 said:
Not so fast. I'm gonna be very hard on this guy. First no ammo is allowed in the classroom during any gun course. No loaded guns are allowed either. Period. No exceptions. Live ammo is introduced at the range only. Second, he did not maintain a safe direction. A safe direction is a solid wall, not a desk or anything else. Third, this is not an accident. This is flagrant negligence. Had he followed the three basic rules it would not, could not happen:
.
1 - Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2 - Always keep your finger of the trigger.
3 - Do not load the gun until ready to use it.
.
Terry J. Dunlap Sr., who runs a shooting range and training center at 6995 Coonpath Rd. near Lancaster, was demonstrating a handgun when he fired a .38-caliber bullet that ricocheted off a desk and into student Michael Piemonte’s right arm.
.
Dunlap apparently didn’t know that the gun was loaded, Piemonte said — “That’s my guess.”
.
No charges have been filed. An incident report filed by the responding deputy with the county sheriff’s office called it an accidental shooting.
Click to expand...

Have to agree with BCI. have taken several classes and NEVER was ammo allowed in classroom plus every gun was checked by the student and rechecked for "clear" by the instructor when entering the classroom. Plus each time the instructor demonstrated anything with a real gun, a student had to visually verify the gun was unloaded. This guy just screwed the pooch.
 
The last N R A basic pistol safety course that I took, the instructor asked if anyone in the room was armed. Myself, my wife and one other student admitted we were. He asked if our weapons were loaded. All three us snickered and said something like, "Pfft - Well, yeah." He had brought his own small safe and asked that we lock up our firearms (and any extra loaded mags we had) in it for the duration of the class. He said we could lock them up in our vehicles instead, but either way, no loaded firearms were allowed in the classroom, and he said most people preferred to lock them in the safe rather than their cars. So we did.

He then pulled out a Glock and an older S&W revolver (no idea what model it was) that had the firing pin ground off of the hammer. The Glock had one of those plastic barrels that allows the slide to actuate, but the barrel is solid plastic and there's no way for a cartridge to accidentally be loaded in it. Neither weapon that he was going to use for demonstration purposes could have been fired under any circumstances, accidental or otherwise.

That was like 20 years ago I guess, when I was getting my wife prepared to start carrying, shortly after we moved here to Alabama. I just sorta figured that was SOP for safety classes, and had that thought reinforced a couple or three years later when we started taking tactical courses at a (fairly) local shooting academy. They went through the same procedure at the beginning of each classroom session, and used inoperable weapons for demonstrations while inside.

However, I've gone through three different "training" courses for jobs I've had since then, and not one of them asked before we got started if anyone was carrying, so having not been asked, I didn't tell, and sat there with 29 rounds of 9mm ammo on me while passing around the Glock Mdl. 19's that we would be issued after the class was over at one of those job training sessions, and the other two used .40 cals that I couldn't have loaded with 9mm, but still, it struck me as pretty amateurish to train armed "professionals" that way.

Anyway, I agree with BC wholeheartedly - this guy was a total screw-up.

Blues
 
ccwp.

my friend. in the state of south Carolina, you must take a 8 hour class. first class, then the shooting range. must pass then you can get your ccwp.If you pass the background check, how do any one know how good your instructor is ?? mine was a police officer.. a good one..
 
I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police, it's happened to instructors and many others. However, it obviously can't happen to you, right? Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid, you have a lot of instruction, know the rules, plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun. I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?

Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
 
Check our David Codrea's post on Examiner.com. The guy was 'on the force' and training officers. These are the people the gun-haters want to trust your and their lives to.
 
croute said:
I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police, it's happened to instructors and many others. However, it obviously can't happen to you, right? Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid, you have a lot of instruction, know the rules, plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun. I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?

Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
Click to expand...

I understand mistakes happen but you're missing the point. He knowingly pulled the trigger of the gun without safety checking it first. Even if he didn't mean to touch the trigger (although I can't see how the gun would have gone off if he didn't) carrying one in the chamber wasn't the problem. Carelessness and ignorance was the problem. If you don't touch the trigger the gun won't go off. Pretty simple device these guns we have. Cause and effect. Even when I know my gun is unloaded I don't touch the trigger unless I'm going to dry fire and only after triple checking the chamber and pointing it in a safe direction. I won't badger you for siding on the safe side though but my safe side is one in the chamber. "Safe" is relative.
 
croute said:
I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police, it's happened to instructors and many others. However, it obviously can't happen to you, right? Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid, you have a lot of instruction, know the rules, plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun. I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?

Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
Click to expand...
croute, we all wish the instructor didn't have one in the pipe, and I respect your carry routine, but anyone can make a thoughtless, deadly mistake whether one is in the pipe or not. A thoughtless rack with a magazine inserted comes to mind.

Secondly, you should care if someone makes the same mistake. It is a negligent discharge that training issues should have taken care of if stressed over and over and over again.

Nobody is going to badger you for siding on your safe side. If none in the chamber is safe for you. Great!

One not in the chamber is not safe for me, as the time it takes me to rack a round, I could be dead.

You seem to be going-off on people who keep one in the chamber, and insert your own dialogue and blather regarding a what-if scenario.

NDs are preventable. It's simple. Train, train, and train some more. Repeat safe rules of gun handling until they are as common as remembering multiplication tables in school, and follow them.

I'm not going to give you any crap, just point-out that the tone of your post seems a bit hostile towards we who keep one in the chamber, for personal safety reasons.
 
croute said:
I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police, it's happened to instructors and many others. However, it obviously can't happen to you, right? Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid, you have a lot of instruction, know the rules, plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun. I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?

Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
Click to expand...
If Zimmerman hasn't had one in the chamber, Martin would almost certainly still be alive...




...and Zimmerman would almost certainly be dead.

You do the math.
 
One of the things that I remember about my CPL/CCW class was the constant checking of the weapon(s) when the instructors demonstrated a point that they were trying to make. Yes, there were real weapons (instructors only) and fake weapons (plastic) in the class room. No ammo was allowed. Accidents do happen. That is why they are called accidents. However, I must agree with BC1 that we can not let this guy off that easy Had this instructor hollowed basic gun safety rules there would not have been an accident ricochet or not.
 
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