Thinking about a move to the SEA-TAC area and was wondering how friendly it was. Does Washington allow cities and counties to impose local restrictions and bans? Is one county more or less gun friendly than another?
You will find that the Greater Seattle area stretches south into Tacoma 60 miles of urban sprawl, passing south through Olympia (our state capitol city) and is bounded on the north by Canada, the south by Longview, Oregon. Seattle has plenty of jobs, a high cost of living, plenty of great things to do year round and the crime that comes with rich-pickings, but it is less all-round rough than say Tuscon or NYC, Vegas or LA. Carrying a legal concealed pistol is smart city living and using it without a very good reason will get you headlines, and either a pat on the back or hard time. Shame that the junkies & meth heads that call Seattle home don't seem to mind that part and pack plenty more than HIV and rusty needles!
It is nice but it's urban and $uburban with some great wild wooded nature areas like the Olympic peninsular, Mt. Tantalus is a hike U will never 4-get! To the omnipresent, see it for hundreds of miles away dormant volcano Mt. Rainier and the national forests that surround that area and hug the west-side slopes of the Cascades all down the coast to Mt. St. Helens, still smoking a pack a day! Ports Angelese & Townsend are great little seaside villes, and Puget Sound was good fishing, rain and cold with 4 solid seasons. Seattle living gets more hectic and expensive the closer you get to the Space Needle, worth a look-see from the top any day, fine dining as it rotates 360' so you get the whole view if you just stay put and eat slow! Auto theft may have you taking a cab home, with Canada so close it is like leaving your car parked overnight in El Paso/Juarez, may not B there when you get back. But even with subterranean (must-see) or the Bohemian parts of the city it is still like all other big groups of culturally & morally diversified folks packed tight, plenty good areas, some bad. If you want a good paying job that is where you head, or to Microsoft :akuma: in Redmond or Boeing both sides of the Cascades with a huge factory in Everett, Seattle and one right next to Fairchild Air Force Base just west of my digs in Spokane. I-5 and U.S. 101 are your major N-S highways, if speed is the plan, stick to 75mph I-5, if beauty is your thing, try the winding and weaving coastal U.S. Hwy 101 that starts at Canada and ends at Mexico!
Heading on I-90 over Snoqualmie pass (chains during heavy snow a must) takes you to the higher flat lands inland and towns like Yakima (apples and a U.S. Army firing center) and Wenatchee (farming), the Grand Coulee Dam (awesome!), then just deserts, scrub-lands, pastures and arable farming lands. More like Kansas 2 hours drive and it still looks the same. "R we there yet dad?"
Then if you want property at 1/2 the price to own or rent you go east, Alpine like conditions and colder WA. The 'other' part of Washington that is SO different from the western part of the state, & where I call home. Eastern WA with Spokane the major road/rail & trade hub, at the foothills of the western-slope Rockies. The Lewis & Clark trial (or what remains of it) runs right by my home. Mt. Spokane is a honey and so is the town of Coeur d'Alene right by it (Pro: core de lane) as you cross into Northern Idaho, a 30 min drive east of Spokane, which means 'Children of the Sun' in the Spokane tribe native American language. Spokane is an island of civilization sitting at 2,700ft above Seattle and 280 miles 1-way drive west, 55 min air-hop surrounded by lakes, huge pine forests, rivers, dams, wildlife galore, mines, mills, small hamlets, mountains, hills, and valleys. I was stationed for 2 years at Ft. Lewis, when the 9th Inf Div called it home, a unit that deactivated away after the Bear sopped roaring. That huge training area hugs S. Tacoma, and in my mid 20's I enjoyed it, tons of stuff to do and I frequented the best parts of Seattle most weekends not deployed, seen some of the best concerts of my life there from the the Rolling Stones to The Police to David Bowie! 19 years later I returned here to live in Spokane, been retired 4 years coming out of CA in '01 which if I never see again will be way too soon! Sorry but to each their own version of heaven and hell. IMHO Spokane is a great town/city of 200K with lots to do but much more laid back 'n friendly than Seattle or Tacoma (Sea-Tac). Less crime, but it is still here, mostly in the valley. Good folks and a bastion of WASP living with a sprinkle of Hispanic, Afro-American and Native Americans. Active-duty & Veteran heavy and like most of WA there are military facilities or training areas all over, I think I hit every one!
Vet Hospitals at Seattle (overworked mess) and Spokane (nice set up) with a new facility just opened in Wenatchee (very nice!). When U have travelled as much as I have c/o an Army career, there has to be something very special about the place you finally get to call home, I've blown thru 100's of U.S. towns and cities, lived in some for 2-4 years yet I wouldn't swap a free homeand 5 acres of land for what I have here in the place I finally moved into my retirement middle years and call it home with great pride! :Love:
As far as I know this URL will tell you all there is to know about concealed carry in the State: Link Removed USA Carry also has an up to date link to the same which you should try 1st as it summarizes the general intent, the link I posted breaks each part down to it's atomic particle RCW subsections.
We have one CCW law RCW 9.41.070 for the entire State. It's a 'Stand your ground' and 'no open carry' (brandishing!) place with all the normal no carry nuthin zones: bars, schools/campuses, federal land, jails & courts to name but a few you better know by rote before you put your (nonrefundable if U don't rate one of the 700K CCW permits already issued State-wide). Head to the local county/city court houses early, bring $60 cash is best, your application and I.D. which should be WA or you are looking at getting an out of state version and a return trip to convert it over. Get a WA drivers license or the lease/lien on your digs and that works. You'll get a partial (thumb, forefinger) printing done by a biometric-scanner and a mug-shot :huh: which does not show up on your card-stock permit as it may in other states with their plastic bar-coded hi-tech versions. You don't take any tests nor do you have to take/have training courses. Reciprocity by state is a link on USA Carry and a long search on Google! Just wait <30 days for an NIC to be run & it comes back to your home via normal U.S. mail. Please know what makes you eligible for one or don't even mess with applying for one until you do. 'Forgetting' a disqualifier equates to the State doing much more than keeping your $60! It's good for 5 years which you better follow to the day a renewal is a freebie mail-in renewal, but you get no warning (even by snail mail) that it will soon expire/has expired ='s U go thru a new 1st time issue run again. No copies are legal copies and you do not give yours to anyone but a LEO if they want to see it, saying 'No!' is not a very smart next move! You do not get duplicates, just replacements for lost cards, 1 for your CCW 'fanny-pack' and 1 for your wallet, which would be nice but too bad! Fancy CC tin badges with your CC # on them look sharp in catalogs (www.nles.com ) but are not worth the C-note for the engraving and no WA State LEO would even accept it as proof of anything but you wasted your time and $'s on bravado and BS. "We don't need no stinking BAHDGES!!!!"" oep2:
This is WA CCW Gospel: Link Removed
When packing you better be clean & sober and up-front with 5-OH. WA is not a 'must-tell without being asked' law/your duty to inform if U R carrying, but a very smart one to inform U R packing if a LEO pulls you over, and a big mistake to lie as they have already run your plates and that WILL be one of their 1st questions. You can laminate it and you better have it with you whenever you CC, or you lose a lot more than the right to CC!
If you want to know more about the state than guns, tag this as a point of reference for everything RCW (laws) else: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/Revised Code of Washington
Hope you enjoy life in this state, I do on both side of the Cascades, but I prefer the beauty that is Spokane than the busy-beeexpensive life of Sea-Tac, the name of the airport but in reality the extent that both cities expanded and melded into one giant strip of humanity in just 3 decades. I hope my 10 years of combined living here experience helps you make a good move to find out for yourself if WA is your kind of CC pistol friendly/owner-smart state......and which part suit your life-style/needs. Regards,
Canis is right..the Spokane area is really nice and I would not hesitate to live there..my brother lives in Newport abt 35 miles north of Spokane and everytime I visit, I just marvel at the area...don't think you can go wrong living there..what really inpresses me is that you do not need an AC unit to cool your house in the summer time, temps are just right! Yellow jackets are a plenty tho so be alert.
I lived up north around Bellingham for a year and really liked it. Moved down and lived in Silverdale/Bremerton for about 8 months and it was okay there as well. Gun clubs and ranges in both areas with fair to good facilities. The annual fees were reasonable, good crowd of folks and there were plenty of places to buy ammo and guns. There were a couple of good gun shows I went to down south of Seattle a couple of tmies. Plenty of Wal-Marts, Sportsmen's Warehouses and such.
I carried in both Bellingham and Bremerton full-time except at work (Naval shipyard and an employer with a restrcition for employees). Several times up in the Bellingham area I was around police officers who knew I carried and always found them supportive. Some citizens are/were less so though.
I have a home just north of Spokane great area very gun friendly.
SEATAC not so much. I refer to the area as the Peoples Republic of King County. Left wing liberal heaven. Plus it rains a lot over that way, to the east we have a drier colder climate my wife tells me we had a near reccord snowfall this year. I prefer snow to rain. Many Vets in the area to, which I like.
Got all long-winded about the positives of Spokane, but if you do not like 4 solid seasons then stay away! In summer it is normally dry and hot as in hi-90's to 100's daily late May - mid-Sep, spring is gorgeous but thinks it's still winter some days, fall is golden brown and winter can be a right brutal bitch. We had the worst winter in 18 years which culminated in 24" of snow dumped on Spokane in just 24 hours on 28 Jan 08. Not even the snow plows could keep up with the blizzard conditions, power outs and almost everything closed, only snow-cats moving, with roofs collapsing under the weight of tons of snow, and outlying communities cut off for a week from any land access. This attached thumb is a shot of my friend's 20ft high front yard tree, with only 4 feet sticking out of the 16 feet of snow under & around it!!! Temps didn't break freezing for most of January and 1/2 of February, yesterday the 1st day of Spring we had a snow-storm that blew thru and dropped 2" which melted by noon! In Spokane washing your car Nov-Mar is like pissing into the wind during winter, you wash it, 30 feet out of the auto-washer you will drive thru a mud/slush/ice mess and it will look as dirty as it was B 4 U started! Sea-Tac (RepubliK of King County, way descriptive) could not hack even our mildest winters without them calling out the NG's! They get 1 season. Cold & wet and warm and wet Thanks to the USA Carry partons who added their up-beat takes on my (gets chilly) home town. Regards,
The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
We welcome you to the area but I think you can do better than Seatac, busy place and bad traffic.
To correct Canis Lupus. Washington IS a "open carry" state for firearms. Meaning a person can carry a pistol in an exposed holster without the need for a permit unless there is something that prohibits it.
A Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet was created and is well worth reading and keeping at hand. Link Removed
Well, Sea-Tac would not be my first choice as I prefer to be in an area where I have some “space”. Unfortunately I am in the information Technologies field and that is the best place in Washington to look for work. I am hoping to have something before the end of summer.
WA isn't a class 3 state which means you cannot own NFA firearms including short barrelled rifles or shotguns. If you can deal with that, then WA isn't a bad State to live considering they have no State income tax and are shall issue. Keep in mind that once you become a WA resident, you must have a WA CPL you can not carry in WA with a reciprocal CCW.
Ah-Hemm1gunr(Military..RA/NG/AR active-duty, Abrams tanker? & passing thru on your way to 20 yrs?)
In Washington state it is "unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw anyfirearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons..." The catch the law will persecute, then prosecute you on the alarm you & it caused to Joe/Jill Public (check those public safety RCW's) I've lived here for the last 7 years + 2 yrs (80-82) @ Ft. Lewis, 9th ID, 9th Med. Bn, making 9 yearstotal and been ALL over this state, neveronce seen any open carry pistols or foolsstupid enough to show off their shooters in a publicplace, so I wonder which RCW U R getting your poop from and maybe misinforming a new arrival into a world of legal hurt. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050 does not include a caveat about 'open carry', which is about the fastest way any city, county or state LEOwill slap a 'brandishing' charge on you, @ least, set a court date and U can then argue with some judge as to why your .357 Mag was 'Causing alarm' sticking out of your John Waynecow-boy holster at Northtown Mall!This ain't Missouri but SHOWME the RCW that states even with a CC permit U can go around with your guns hanging off your gear! Don't show me it's absence in the law or assumption/presumption that B-cause it don't say OPEN CARRY IS OK IF.... RealityIS you will last about 15 mins in a public place B 4 the cuffs are on U, your gun now evidence, U R in custody @ the local jail and U looking @ a world of lawful hurt ahead!Please don't try open carry in Spokane city or county, U risk a LOT!
There does seem to be some confussion here. I too was told that it is lawful to open carry in the state of Washington but like you have never seen it done. I was told open carry was legal by a LEO but that if you were to do so inside the city limits you would most like get the attention of LE. He said it was due to the alarm that it would cause, but that after checking you out you most likely would be let go on your way with a warning.
Now add to that the fact that while checking all this out I saw that there has been a recent movement to encourage open carry in WA state. In fact the relevant law they use to dispute open carry was enacted in 1968 in response to the Black Panther movements actions in Kalifornia that year. But I read on the web, wikpedia I think, that they had recently shown that this statute did not prohibit the lawful open carrying of firearms.
Have you heard anything about this? I know I watched a news program from Spokane about 2 brothers over in Idaho who open carried all over, one was 18 so he carried a Rugger 10/22. I think outside the city limits it would be acceptable. I know my neighbor open carries to and from the range and has not been hassesled. Of course we live in Stevens county more out in the country.
Washington is one of the original "shall issue" states, in which a concealed pistol permit must be issued to any applicant, age 21 or older, who meets certain requirements, including no felony convictions, no misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, and no outstanding warrants. Furthermore, a concealed pistol license is not required to carry a concealed pistol if the person carrying the firearm is in route to, in route from, or actively participating in a "legitimate outdoor activity". Open carrying of firearms is not prohibited by law although trouble with some law enforcement agencies has been encountered while open carrying in the past, most notably in a case in Ellensburg, Washington.
Currently, there is a growing movement towards open carry in Washington. In Washington, there was a tremendous amount of disinformation among law enforcement officers, gun store employees, and firearms instructors about RCW 9.41.270.
In December 2005, activists Lonnie Wilson and Jim March went to the state archives in Olympia to research the origins of the law. March, with his experience in researching gun control laws created out of racial discrimination and strife in California, surmised during a conversation between himself and Wilson that due to year it was passed, it was likely due to "Panther paranoia". March was proven correct.
The law, passed in 1969, was passed in response to incidents involving the Seattle Chapter of Black Panther Party at Rainier Beach High School and the Protest of the Mulford Act by the main organization in the California Assembly.
Due to the fact that Washington State Constitution has an individual right to keep and bear arms provision (Article 1, Section 24), the Washington Legislature revised the bill that was debated to remove the "within 500 feet of a public place" provisions and left the current statute as is. There were points of debate about whether this could be interpreted as an open carry ban, to which the sponsors of the bill replied that it was a ban against the type of intimidation that the Black Panther Party engaged in at Rainier Beach and the California Assembly, not an open carry ban.
Many law enforcement, a generation removed from the events and discussions of the Legislature when the law was created, and without much guidance interpreted the law passed as an open carry ban that is situational to someone making a 911 phone call. This interpretation spread to gun store employees and firearms instructors, who have a lot of personal interaction with law enforcement.
Using the information from the state archives, Wilson pursued the issuance of guidance and memorandums to individual officers by police administrators. After one of these bulletins was issued by one department, Wilson acquired the bulletin by a public records request, used the training bulletin as a template and approached most police departments throughout the state. To this day, over a dozen major departments, including the King County Sheriff's Department and the Seattle Police Department, have issued advisories and roll call training to their officers that peaceable open carry of a handgun in a holster is legal.
As a general rule, a person may legally open carry in Washington State in any place it is legal to possess a loaded handgun. To open carry in a vehicle (i.e., car, bus, etc...) a person must have a valid concealed pistol license. Some police agencies can be unfriendly towards open carry, so it is important that before a person exercises their right to bear arms in this fashion they acquaint themselves with relevant laws.
Prohibited areas for firearms are contained in RCW 9.41.300, RCW 9.41.280, and RCW 70.108.150.
Per RCW 9.41.290 (state preemption of firearm laws), divisions of local government (city, county, town, or other municipality) cannot regulate firearms more restrictively than the state does. Exceptions to state preemption — that is, areas in which local governments are allowed to regulate firearms — are contained in RCW 9.41.300. These exceptions include:
"Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others."
"Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, except that such restrictions shall not apply to [concealed pistol license holders, law enforcement officers, or any] showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms."
"Restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold."
Several localities (including transit agencies) who had wrongfully enforced preempted local ordinances and rules have been challenged by activists in the open carry movement (who are most directly affected by the enforcement of such ordinances) and have since backed down from enforcement and directed their police departments to no longer enforce the ordinances and rules.
Although Washington state is typically liberal on firearms issues. Washington allows ownership of a firearm silencer, but using one is prohibited by RCW 9.41.250(3) which makes it a gross misdemeanor to "Use any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm."
Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, in which there is no duty to retreat in the face of what would be perceived by an ordinary person to be a threat to themselves or others by another person that is likely to cause serious injury or death.
It is a Class C felony for a non-citizen to possess a firearm in Washington without an Alien Firearm License. Washington is not currently issuing Alien Firearm Licenses.
Thanks for the refresher Gunny, U bet 'ya I looked up online the history and Panther scare in Kalifornia, and the fallout it caused here last I read was a 1983 (?) rumble in court. I was in HI then and Active Duty Army with the 25th Inf Div (L)not caring much about WA news! I will concede it is a way iffy call, but a smart-C-carry person would defer to total concealment at all times, because per differing cities, counties and state LEO's you run into, and the type/attitude of the cop U run into (rookie vs. vet, male vs. female, old or young), just how much have they been trained on the CC rights of Jo Public and the situation that brings you to their attention (BIGGY!) it may be a warning to not alarm anyone and have a nice day, or in Spokane city, the cuffs do go on. In a State where you can not have a loaded pistol (even with a CC permit) Velcro-ed or visible sitting on the dash board of your car (brandishing 101), I find it highly likely that should you take a pistol anywhere that elicits a panic call to 911 that whomever responds willprobably cite the 'packer' with 'Causing a breach of the peace/alarming the public or BRANDISHING' the most common fall-back when U R carrying and anyone calls 911 saying: "I fear for my life, this guy has a gun, looks mean and dangerous! My kids are crying/scared, etc." They just said the rightwordsforcing the LEO's to take some action! I called the front desk of City of Spokane police dpt., and the officer just asked after a LONG wait "We would probably detain you and we would ask you for your concealed-carry permit, maybe run a full background check on you which may slow you down a while, we may confiscate your weapon if we feel you are causing alarm with it or under the influence and we may cite or arrest you for brandishing in public or for other violations depending on what you were doing. So tell me why on earth do you want to make an ass out of your self playing Rambo in a public place where NO ONE wants to fear your gun son?" click! I do not plan on calling them back with more loaded questions! You see if you can get a better answer Spokane City Police front desk: 509-625-4100 8:30am-4:30pm M-F (non-emergency). Not wanting to get a 'name' for myself for asking very provocative questions that piss LEO's off I left the county LEO's alone, I have to live here and the cops arecool with me as I am with them. I still await that RCW # that says: "A person with a CC permit may openly carry a loaded pistol in public places..." Or something VERY close to what I can parrot back to a LEO if he/she ever sees the tip/butt of my Beretta sticking outa my Levis back pocket. Not like that will EVER happen! If I ever had to call 911 for a real emergency I would I.D. what I looked like, and what I was doing running around with a loaded pistol, then hope I wasn't told to stop and wait for a police response, common sense stuff. Or I could stroll down by the River Walk with my pistol in a belt carry holster, wearing an NRA T-shirt of course, and maybe you would come & bail me out if I sent U my phone number? JK!!!!! Regards,
Unless you are Saudi royalty, it will be worth your effort to do some homework regarding real estate prices in various areas. Buying in Seattle is EXPENSIVE, and gas is almost $4/gal so you need to weigh purchase price vs. commuting costs. Traffic in the SeaTac area is heavy during rush hour. Weather is not conducive to using a motorcycle as your compensating factor for fuel cost and traffic unless you carry your sack in a wheelbarrow or really enjoy being cold and wet. This is one of the last areas to be affected by the "adjustment" in property prices, but it does appear to be happening. Your original post does not mention your specific line of work (unless I wasn't paying close enough attention.) I know little/nothing about Microsoft. Boeing has 2 main facilities- in the South, i.e. Renton/Auburn and Everett. I can speak to employment possibiities with Boeing since I work there. The Big B has several programs that are getting going and this is a good time to monitor their employment sites. They are also taking on lots of contractors, which pays well but does not offer the peripheral benefits of being a Direct employee. Given the choice, I would prefer working at the Everett plant (which is where I work). Living in Everett gives you access to the cultural niceties of Seattle without the crap that goes with living in a big city.
Remember- WA is in reality 2 states. The Sea-Tac Megalopolis is like Santa Monica in the DPRK, i.e. the Leftie Paradise that elects socialist cretins like Jim Mc Dimwit and Patty Murray and puts in $300K public toilets for bums to smoke crack and hookers to turn tricks. The other WA, especially East of the Cascades is more like the rest of the Western USA- think Idaho.
Open carry may be technically legal, but if you do it in Alderwood Mall and some bed wetter nasties their knickers in terror you will be inconvenienced at the very least. Other than NFA issues WA is pretty cool. As mentioned in other posts a CHL is easy to get, and there are sources of excellent instruction not too far off. If you move here PM me.
I thought this thread had died, but I was glad to read your very precise spin on the 2-Washingtons and the current SITREP about Sea-Tac, Kingdom Kounty! My friend's (rich) dad died about 20 years back. In life he raised a big family of 6 kids in a super-nice Tudor style 10-bed, 4-bath, 2-kithchen, full basement, 3 fire-places, oak & tile floors, mahogany & cherry cabinets through-out, finished attic with sky-lights, working fresh water well and 3 wind-mills on the hilly parts for (almost) free power; the worx, dream home he had built from the ground up when acres were selling at like $1.5K a pop, and Tacoma hadn't even incorporated that statewilderness land yet. A constant view of Mt. Rainier & the Cascades to the east and the sea to the west! It had a large stable, a huge barn, enclosed garages, a tennis-court, I could go on but you get the idea, 10K acres of dense wooded land & their own streams, 2 ponds & servants quarters (!), built 1946-7 when he got back from WWII as a retired Navy doctor (Colonel), married to a civilian ICU nurse. Good people! Anyway the kids grew-up, split to raise their own families in smaller homes all over WA, 2 stayed on as care-takers but that didn't last long with no one paying them except their fathers estate in the bank cash. One I stayed in contact with for 28 years and she moved here to Spokane in 1980. The 4 remaining offspring just got the property taxes on the place, no-note, paid off in full in the 70's. Tacoma wanted $1.5 million (back property taxes) on an empty home that was losing value every year thru lack of up-keep, with land/view the worx. None of the now grown/middle-aged surviving chidren had that kind of ca$h to keep it alive, no trust would take it as it was not an orginal 19-century structure with a history, no one would or could rent it out ($10-15K a month) and even break-even, so it was foreclosed, flattend, and a mall put in 2 years ago, now surrounded by middle-class living apartments, a few permanent $1/2 mil homes, a school and a park. Those 1-bed, 1-bath 3-story apartments start at barely 1K sq ft, run $1,500 a month, and that will be going up to $2k a month VERY soon. Tacoma took one of the most fantastic homes I have ever seen, wiped it off the map and now it's just rental suburbia (with a McDonalds!) average living where once deer grazed and salmon jumped that U could catch with your bare hands! I can't even go near that place anymore, the memories it brings back of such great days in my mid-20's riding horses down those wooded trails with that family (I was stationed at Ft. Lewis 80-02 and met them thru a woman I went on to marry & regret I ever did) or just wandering through those pristine pines is just a bitter memory now to see pictures of it sent into my inbox. I know this has nothing to do with guns, but just adds a bit more push to your tale that I saw change for the worse. Give Spokane 20 years and we may suffer the same fate. God, I hope not! Regards,