The Use Of Deadly Force
- Thread starter ronwill
- Start date
Jim_Macklin
New member
Buy the books by Massod Ayoob
IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME
and
THE TRUTH ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE
Read your own state's laws, in Kansas 21-3211, 3212, 3213.
Never alter a shooting scene because that says you thought there was some doubt about the need to shoot and you tried to "improve" the look.
What matters is what you as an average, normal person did in fact actually feel at the moment you pulled the trigger. Other people will decide if that was reasonable and if you were reasonable later.
IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME
and
THE TRUTH ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE
Read your own state's laws, in Kansas 21-3211, 3212, 3213.
Never alter a shooting scene because that says you thought there was some doubt about the need to shoot and you tried to "improve" the look.
What matters is what you as an average, normal person did in fact actually feel at the moment you pulled the trigger. Other people will decide if that was reasonable and if you were reasonable later.
ClearSightTactical
New member
I've never worried too much about that stuff. (ready to get screamed at).
I'm no commando but can defend myself- I figure if I ever have to shoot someone that they really forced my hand and it was unavoidable. The only time I'd ever use my weapon would be to defend myself or another from imminent risk of great bodily harm or death.
I think that people put too much thought (ya, that's right) into the subject and end up freaking themselves out. There will always be a legal battle afterwards...and if you're concerned about that at the time of the incident you probably weren't justified.
I've been in many use of force encounters and never thought about my justification I just reacted to keep myself or someone else from being hurt. I try to guide my actions with my own morals, of course in compliance with the law. However, if some junkie is charging me with a knife the NM Statutes are the farthest thing from my mind...
I'm no commando but can defend myself- I figure if I ever have to shoot someone that they really forced my hand and it was unavoidable. The only time I'd ever use my weapon would be to defend myself or another from imminent risk of great bodily harm or death.
I think that people put too much thought (ya, that's right) into the subject and end up freaking themselves out. There will always be a legal battle afterwards...and if you're concerned about that at the time of the incident you probably weren't justified.
I've been in many use of force encounters and never thought about my justification I just reacted to keep myself or someone else from being hurt. I try to guide my actions with my own morals, of course in compliance with the law. However, if some junkie is charging me with a knife the NM Statutes are the farthest thing from my mind...
PaulIcemanMc
New member
My feelings exactly!
This is pretty much how I feel about the whole subject. I will have to make those decisions when and if the time comes. I just know that I refuse to be a willing victim with no chance of surviving. And God forbid you threaten one of my loved ones....
This is pretty much how I feel about the whole subject. I will have to make those decisions when and if the time comes. I just know that I refuse to be a willing victim with no chance of surviving. And God forbid you threaten one of my loved ones....
CST, I just posted pretty much the exact same thoughts on your other thread - Documenting the Use of Force. You do what you think you gotta do and damn the consequences. We keep this crap up and we'll all just turn into sheep, afraid of the legal consequences of defending ourselves and others. Bottom line: you threaten me or my family with deadly intent, I'm gonna put you down. And I'm not gonna look around and make sure I have witnessess first, and I'm not dialing 911 first. I will make sure I have clear LOS. Oh, And I'm willing to go to prison for it, if I have to.
ClearSightTactical
New member
Well said!
Its good to know the laws about using deadly force, self defense statutes, etc. However, if you pay attention to the law and the way its written- you'll see that the statutes are very vague in most states. So vague infact that they may as well not exist.
I follow the law- but i'll be damned if I get stabbed, or shot, or w/e because of it. I think the cliche phrase really does sum it up best "better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6".
If your actions are reasonable, I think you'd be OK. If the D.A trys to charge you in a good shoot- the community erupts as was the case for Mr. Luke Sanchez here in New Mexico who shot a burglar that attacked him.
<<< "and if you're concerned about that at the time of the incident you probably weren't justified." >>>
I had an nstructor once tell me if you have to think about whether you are justified or not to pull your weapon, you probably aren't.
“There are three types of men. Some learn by reading, a few learn by observation, and the rest have to piss on the electric fence to find out for themselves.” --- Will Rogers
I had an nstructor once tell me if you have to think about whether you are justified or not to pull your weapon, you probably aren't.
“There are three types of men. Some learn by reading, a few learn by observation, and the rest have to piss on the electric fence to find out for themselves.” --- Will Rogers
901-Memphis
New member
I have searched but my google skills need help.
Anyone know my states laws on home defense in an apartment using deadly force? I live in Kentucky. I can't seem to google this result or find it on the forum. Thanks in advance, i will continue to look for this or ask a cop if i have to.
This is the best i have found, but it doesn't seem to cover the topic.
Link Removed
Anyone know my states laws on home defense in an apartment using deadly force? I live in Kentucky. I can't seem to google this result or find it on the forum. Thanks in advance, i will continue to look for this or ask a cop if i have to.
This is the best i have found, but it doesn't seem to cover the topic.
Link Removed
ClearSightTactical
New member
This site is great for reference. Since you're new here I'll post what I found. In the future go to the resources section of this site. http://www.usacarry.com/kentucky_concealed_carry_permit_information.html
I hope you stick around, you can learn a lot here! I bolded/change color of important phrases
503.055 Use of defensive force regarding dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle -- Exceptions.
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;
(b) The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a felony involving the use of force.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
This should be considered AS-IS info.
I hope you stick around, you can learn a lot here! I bolded/change color of important phrases
503.055 Use of defensive force regarding dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle -- Exceptions.
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;
(b) The person sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a peace officer, as defined in KRS 446.010, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties, and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a peace officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a felony involving the use of force.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
This should be considered AS-IS info.
901-Memphis
New member
Thanks for posting that. I really tried using the search function and google, but must have not used the correct keyword combos. So much info available here its hard to sort through all of it since i am not familiar with the layout of the forum.
Had to search just to find the introductions forum. That should be easier to find for the ones even slower than me
Had to search just to find the introductions forum. That should be easier to find for the ones even slower than me
