The use of deadly force with your weapon
- Thread starter 357_av
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After a deadly force situation
@Cvaughan is right: call 911, explain what happened in a calm and clear manner. Keep it short and to the point and FACTUAL. Then invoke and wait for your lawyer before you say anything else.
the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners says this:
Q: What should I do if I ever need to use my gun in self-defense?
They recommend that you exercise your 5th Amendment right to remain silent and also invoke your right to have counsel present during any questioning. You should answer basic questions asked in the interests of safety such as "Where is he?" "Where is the gun?" "What is your name?" "Are you hit?" etc., but they do not recommend that you discuss details until you've had a chance to reflect, calm down, and seek counsel.
We all hope to never need this guidance, but it's best to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Best,
@Cvaughan is right: call 911, explain what happened in a calm and clear manner. Keep it short and to the point and FACTUAL. Then invoke and wait for your lawyer before you say anything else.
the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners says this:
Q: What should I do if I ever need to use my gun in self-defense?
A: You should first be certain that the threat is removed before you lower your guard. Then, call 911 and say that there has been a shooting. Describe the immediate need for ambulance and police (and fire department if applicable). Tell the 911 operator where you are, how many people are wounded etc. Do not have your gun in your hand when police arrive unless you absolutely must hold someone at gun point. In either case, make sure that you describe yourself and your clothing. Fight the urge to start telling your story and stick to the relevant facts that the emergency responders need to do their jobs. Even if an individual was attacking you only moments before, once the threat is removed, you should do the responsible thing and promptly call 911 so that aid can be rendered. Remember that your goal is not to kill, but to protect yourself or others from a credible threat of death, great bodily harm that could lead to death, or rape. If you effectively use your firearm, the death of the attacker(s) will probably be the result and a homicide investigation will be undertaken.
They recommend that you exercise your 5th Amendment right to remain silent and also invoke your right to have counsel present during any questioning. You should answer basic questions asked in the interests of safety such as "Where is he?" "Where is the gun?" "What is your name?" "Are you hit?" etc., but they do not recommend that you discuss details until you've had a chance to reflect, calm down, and seek counsel.
We all hope to never need this guidance, but it's best to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Best,
Doc Mustang
New member
After a deadly force incident you should stop. Call 911 explain who you are give a rough physical description and state that you are an armed citizen with a concealed carry permit who has been involved in an incident where you were "In fear of your life" and shots were fired. You should explain that someone is injured and give their description. A description of those who fled the scene should also be given. Give no more detail than that.
Do not describe what happened, why you shot, how many times you shot. If you are asked any more questions respond with:
"I intend to fully cooperate with your investigation but I do not wish to make any further statements until I have consulted with my attorney."
You should have in your wallet a card of a criminal defense attorney who is experienced in dealing with justifiable use of force and has successfully defended concealed carry permit holders in the past.
It may also be a good idea to look into self defense legal representation insurance.
Do not describe what happened, why you shot, how many times you shot. If you are asked any more questions respond with:
"I intend to fully cooperate with your investigation but I do not wish to make any further statements until I have consulted with my attorney."
You should have in your wallet a card of a criminal defense attorney who is experienced in dealing with justifiable use of force and has successfully defended concealed carry permit holders in the past.
It may also be a good idea to look into self defense legal representation insurance.
Doc Mustang
New member
Beat me to it!
BIGJOHN621
New member
"I was in fear for my life. I was forced to defend myself. I will sign a complaint. I intend to fully cooperate with your investigation. Please afford me the time to speak with an attorney before I speak with you, the same courtesy you would afford a fellow officer who was in this same situation."
Do NOT consent to any voluntary searches and say NOTHING else. You will only talk yourself into a prison cell for a long time. Unfortunately, no matter what you say to them at the scene, you are not going to beat the ride. You will almost certainly be handcuffed and taken to the station. Keep your cool and wait for your attorney.
Do NOT consent to any voluntary searches and say NOTHING else. You will only talk yourself into a prison cell for a long time. Unfortunately, no matter what you say to them at the scene, you are not going to beat the ride. You will almost certainly be handcuffed and taken to the station. Keep your cool and wait for your attorney.
wild eyed willy
New member
All of this advice has been awsome so far, but they all left one thing out... Make sure you say goodby as*Ho*e, to the dead perp... then call 911
OUTTAHERE
New member
Short and simple:
1. Give location
2. Give name, and physical description/clothing color, etc. for immediate ID purposes
3. Holster weapon unless needed to further contain situation
4. Tell dispatcher "I have been forced into stopping a situation using deadly force"
5. I need an ambulance for the perpetrator
6. Give a very short description of what just happened, invoke, shut up and call attorney
1. Give location
2. Give name, and physical description/clothing color, etc. for immediate ID purposes
3. Holster weapon unless needed to further contain situation
4. Tell dispatcher "I have been forced into stopping a situation using deadly force"
5. I need an ambulance for the perpetrator
6. Give a very short description of what just happened, invoke, shut up and call attorney
Treo
Bullet Proof
You should absolutely follow all the random anonymous advice you get on the internet instead of actually contacting a lawyer in your area who is well versed in 2nd amendment law.
Under no circumstance should you schedule a consultation w/ him ( even if it costs you a couple hundred) get some pointers from him and establish a working relationship w/ him so the first time he hears your name isn't when his answering service calls him to arrange your bail in the middle of the night.
Just follow the random internet legal advice ( that's worth exactly what you paid for it) you'll be fine
At every gun show in AZ, we have a few attorney's handing out cards and actually holding little town hall meetings. I didn't attend one last time but plan to at the June show. At least I want to put their information in my iPhone. I think having an attorney's information is just as important as having your credentials.
Doc Mustang
New member
I have advocated consulting with an attorney in past posts. However during your consultation you should discuss how to present the fact that you have consulted an attorney. A prosecutor could portray such a consultation in a negative light. (you planned ahead? You must have WANTED to shoot someone right?)
I would begin with a lawyer you know. Describe what you want and ask if they have the type of experience to meet your needs. If they do not, then ask them if they can recommend anyone. Going to an attorney with a referral tends to open more doors.
Criminal defense lawyers can get uncomfortable discussing potential crimes you might commit in the future. Having a referral can make a big difference. Some attorneys nay not understand why you are consulting them for something that has not happened yet. I have seen emails fro attorneys who were cold contacted expressing concern about accepting a consult from someone who appears to be planning to shoot someone.
Terminal Lance
New member
Depends. If you live in a castle doctrine state/stand your ground. Say whatever the **** you want. The police and or ADA can try and mess with you but the law is the law. And you are protected
Terminal Lance
New member
And another thing. What's with all you pansies crying about having to use your weapon to defend your families. That's why the he'll you bought a gun in the first place. Some POS enters your home they forfeit their right to life. Don't worry about them be thankful you and your family are safe and get to go on living.
Semper fi
Semper fi
KAM65
New member
In regards to the use of deadly force, i have always found these words helpful, as a general guideline:
Force that a person uses causing, or that a person knows or should know would create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily harm.
•Lesser means has been exhausted, are unavailable, or cannot be reasonably employed.
•The risk of death or serious bodily harm to innocent persons is not significantly increased.
•Self defense and defense of others.
•Serious offense against persons.
Force that a person uses causing, or that a person knows or should know would create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily harm.
•Lesser means has been exhausted, are unavailable, or cannot be reasonably employed.
•The risk of death or serious bodily harm to innocent persons is not significantly increased.
•Self defense and defense of others.
•Serious offense against persons.
Doc Mustang
New member
I learned and had to memorize that exact same thing in the Navy
J
JSDinTexas
Guest
From an instructor a long time ago - tell them you want to answer all their questions and be completely cooperative, but right now "I have a very bad pain in my chest and can't get my breath, please call EMS."
This buys time, changes the focus to a health emergency, and usually stops any questions.
This buys time, changes the focus to a health emergency, and usually stops any questions.
Doc Mustang
New member
NOT a good idea. Statements like this, are exactly what Treo was talking about, and are exactly why you need to consult with an actual attorney (IANL) in real life, well versed in the laws and precedents of your state and municipality.
You have fifth amendment rights. Police and prosecutors cannot use your exercising your fifth amendment rights as a negative in court. Juries are instructed NOT to view taking the fitfh as an indication of guilt or evasion. To do so would be to infer answers that may or may not be true.
On the other hand, claiming a medical emergency, if untrue, DOES paint you in a negative light. You were willing to lie to a police officer, what else were you willing to lie about? ONE willful lie and your entire statement/story can be called into question. This is the sort of thing that can result in prosecution rather than no charges filed.
Answer simple questions whose answers are obvious from direct observation. How many people are injured, anyone you saw fleeing the scene, your physical description. A statement that you were in fear for your life and shot to stop the threat is likely ok. Leave out specifics, you are going to want to tell your story. Resist that temptation.
Once you have answered the obvious questions. (consult with your attorney to find out which ones are OK) say this:
I intend to fully cooperate with your investigation but I do not wish to make any further statements until I have consulted with my attorney
Grognard Gunny
New member
Up "play" you were in fear for your life.
Down "play" any training and scenario drilling you have done to prepare yourself and family for the worst.
Don't throw up after you come out of the shock of killing your first human.
Try not to soil your clothing in the heat of battle.
GG
Down "play" any training and scenario drilling you have done to prepare yourself and family for the worst.
Don't throw up after you come out of the shock of killing your first human.
Try not to soil your clothing in the heat of battle.
GG
