The SSI Disability "Gun Grab" question

[SouthernNitmair]

First off: I'm new here, if this belongs in the Firearms Politics forum then I will happily head over there and ask this question.

I am on SSI Disability. I was officially diagnosed with Anxiety/Panic disorder and Agoraphobia/Social Anxiety Disorder. My doctors basically told me I'd never work a 9-5 job because one day I could show up for work but the next I may not be able to leave my house. I've had this pretty much all my life but didn't know what it was. Those who have had panic attacks know that the first time you do think you're going out of your mind.

But I'm not suicidal or crazy or any of that crap. I've never been hospitalized for this stuff, I just see a doctor. And it was this doctor who said it would be wise to go for disability. I had to go with SSI since I've never worked and because I had never worked or managed an income, the people at Social Security advised I have a Payee (my mother) to start with so I wouldn't have to try and manage an account all on my own and screw things up.

Now after I got disability, I went and got my Concealed Carry Permit. Actually I took a class with my whole family, we all passed the NICS background check and so on.

My question is, with this new mess Washington is trying to push onto SSA/SSI about including them in the NICS background checks and all, how does that affect those like me? I've already passed the NICS background check. Are they going to try and take it all away just because (At the moment) I have help managing my account? I plan to take over my account whenever the review comes up because its not that hard. Especially with online banking, but I'm not sure when the review is and trust me, they'll have a fight over taking my CCW and firearms.

All the press on this is confusing and I have no idea what is true and what is false. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

Have you been adjudicated as been incompetent? ( Has a judge ruled that you do not have the mental ability to manage your own affairs? )

If so you can NOT legally own a firearm.

If not you can legally own a firearm.

Contrary to what you may or may not have been told, the only push coming from DC is to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people, like the recent church shooter and the TN shooter. Both were nutty as fruit cakes and never should have been allowed to own or be near any type of firearm.

A lot of people have various mental health and or personality disorders but are NOT homocidal or suicidal and it is perfectly safe for them to own firearms and even have a CCW permit.

For example:

I've been diagnosed by the VA with a Narcissistic Disorder w/ a Chronic Adjustment Disorder highlighted with a Complusive Aggressive Disorder that's farther enhanced by Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with an excessive heterosexual sex drive.

But my Shrink at the VA says I'm, in her words "normal".

Actually what she said is that "IF" I would take my meds I would "APPEAR" to be normal.

Whatever that means.

So, since I'm not homocidal or suicidal I own firearms and have a CCW permit.

Basically no one is going to "grab your guns" just because you draw a SSI check.

HTH

Paul

 

[SouthernNitmair]

No I was never ruled as such by a judge. They just ruled that I was unable to work and since I'd never worked they asked my mom to be the "payee" on the account since I'd never managed an income. I have since learned how to do that (not hard) but they make it sound like anybody with a "payee" or who doesn't manage their accounts themselves are going to be ruled as unfit to own a firearm. That's why I'm trying to find out what's true and what's just the media trying to scare people (which with anxiety, its really easy to do haha).

But No I was never ruled as incompetent or mentally unstable. I just have a disorder that prevents me from leaving my own home (sometimes my own bedroom) some days (or weeks). That's why I wanted to get my CCW so I could have the means to legally protect myself and I pray I never have to do that. Either way, I've already passed the NICS background check.

Thanks for your reply, this helps. Also, thanks for your service. :thank_you2:

 

[Waffles]

Wanna bet?? For the duration of Obamas reign, he and his minions will use any ploy to disarm Americans, by hook or crook. Your doctor has to ask if you have firearms in your house and enter this into your medical records, which are accessible by the IRS, which as we all know keeps is info secret. Ha ha. Don't be surprised if the Social Security Administration has access to your Medical Records and VA records. Beware of the adage "we are from thee government and are here to help you." Alls they gotta do is enter you into NCIC (which we know the FBI keeps secret) as being under medial care for psychological disorders of some type and your are toast.

 

[Rhino]

A little clarification is needed here. What Stengun told you about being adjudicated mentally incompetent is correct, but it isn't the "new mess Washington is trying to push onto SSA/SSI." Being adjudicated mentally incompetent has been a disqualifier for many, many years. The "new mess" being pushed by the administration is basically a duplicate of what the VA started a couple of years back. If you've handed over the control of your financial records and management, most specifically as they pertain to your SSI benefits, to someone else, then the SSA TREATS you as if you're mentally incompetent and reports you to the FBI that way. Then when you try to buy a gun, you show up in the NICS system as mentally incompetent and your purchase is denied. So as long as you haven't handed over control of your finances, most specifically your SSI finances, to someone else to control, then the "new mess" at Social Security shouldn't affect you.

 

[SouthernNitmair]

A little clarification is needed here. What Stengun told you about being adjudicated mentally incompetent is correct, but it isn't the "new mess Washington is trying to push onto SSA/SSI." Being adjudicated mentally incompetent has been a disqualifier for many, many years. The "new mess" being pushed by the administration is basically a duplicate of what the VA started a couple of years back. If you've handed over the control of your financial records and management, most specifically as they pertain to your SSI benefits, to someone else, then the SSA TREATS you as if you're mentally incompetent and reports you to the FBI that way. Then when you try to buy a gun, you show up in the NICS system as mentally incompetent and your purchase is denied. So as long as you haven't handed over control of your finances, most specifically your SSI finances, to someone else to control, then the "new mess" at Social Security shouldn't affect you.

My mother is listed as the "payee" on the account, but my name is also on the account. She was placed as the payee because I had never managed an income before, it was not required they just suggested it. To remove the payee would cause them to probably take another look at my case and then that starts a whole new battle with them.

The question I can't seem to get an answer for though is this. I already have my CCW. I have already passed the FBI background checks and so on. How does that factor into all this? My name gets run and they'll see "oh, he's already passed our background check" but I have a payee. Then what?

Also has this even been passed or is it just something the commander and thief up there wants to do?

 

[Rhino]

My mother is listed as the "payee" on the account, but my name is also on the account. She was placed as the payee because I had never managed an income before, it was not required they just suggested it. To remove the payee would cause them to probably take another look at my case and then that starts a whole new battle with them.
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The question I can't seem to get an answer for though is this. I already have my CCW. I have already passed the FBI background checks and so on. How does that factor into all this? My name gets run and they'll see "oh, he's already passed our background check" but I have a payee. Then what?
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Also has this even been passed or is it just something the commander and thief up there wants to do?

This isn't a law that needs to be passed. Social Security is part of the Executive Branch. All it required was a regulation from the administration for this to go into effect.
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The information so far uses the terms "representative payee" and 'fiduciary." I haven't seen the actual regulation itself, nor do I know the details of your case, so I have no way to judge how it might fit your situation. The news report that broke the story is below though.
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Obama pushes to extend gun background checks to Social Security - LA Times

 

[kc7wzl]

well by this I am no longer able to buy my own firearms. I have a family member take care of my financial needs because if I go into a long stent in medical care my bills are still taken care of. I also have dyslexia but most of my life I was able to function ( granted with difficulties ). I know many people ( even the very intelligent ) that cant take care of the money... why should I be singled out... heck I have a friend that has his mom take care of his money that does not have a violent bone in his body and very caring and responsible just not good with money would be banned buying a gun. and I would trust him with a gun more than 99% of the people out there!


Sorry if I am anti PC... but the PC crowd can kiss my neither area!!!!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Contrary to what you may or may not have been told, the only push coming from DC is to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people, like the recent church shooter and the TN shooter. Both were nutty as fruit cakes and never should have been allowed to own or be near any type of firearm.

Just like keeping your old health insurance if you wanted to when Obamacare rolled out and millions of Americans were lied to?

 

[Stengun]

Howdy NavyLCDR,

Just like keeping your old health insurance if you wanted to when Obamacare rolled out and millions of Americans were lied to?

I've had the same insurance for many years, Anthem ( about 7 years ), my wife has Health Advantage and has had it for over 10 years.

Anywho.........

What does this have to do the the OP's question?

Oh, that's right...... NOTHING!

Back On Topic...........

Just because someone writes a news article, or post something on a blog and some else post a link to it doesn't mean it's factual. ( Reread my first post in this thread.)

The OP can have a "payee" concerning his SSI check and still own a firearm. That's not the same as being adjudicated as being incompetent, or mentally defective.

I know several Veterans that receive VA compensation and SSDI that have a "payee" due to either or both mental or physical health reason(s).

A couple are rated at 70% disabled for PTSD and still have firearms and CCW permits. As long as a shrink has NOT ruled that they are in danger of harming themselves or others. Even then they would have to notify the FBI and have their name added to the background check list.

Unfortunately too ma y people, like the CO movie shooter and the VA Tech shooter to name a couple, have slipped through the system.

As I posted in a different thread today:

We need nut control, not gun control.

Paul

 

[NavyLCDR]

Howdy NavyLCDR,

Just because someone writes a news article, or post something on a blog and some else post a link to it doesn't mean it's factual. ( Reread my first post in this thread.)

But we are supposed to take what you post as factual because you posted on the internet..... got it.

 

[Rhino]

We need nut control, not gun control.

Paul

On that we definitely agree.

 

[SouthernNitmair]

But we are supposed to take what you post as factual because you posted on the internet..... got it.

I believe Stengun is speaking from personal experience and from what he's seen happen with his friends and so on. Not saying we should believe everything that's written on the internet but I would lend more weight to first hand accounts then to media articles these days.

Though I do appreciate your additions to this topic.

 

[DavidWhite]

But we are supposed to take what you post as factual because you posted on the internet..... got it.

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[XD40scinNC]

I really doubt that the federal government has the ability to correlate gun ownership and people that receive SSI recipients.

Clearly they can't correlate tax returns with actual information received from employers and financial institutions, much less the address of the taxpayer.
Clearly they can't correlate medicare payments to health care provides from a PO box in a UPS store front.


Sure in most states a NICS check is run prior to a gun purchase in most states (not in my state, NC for handguns), but it is only a check, and in no way indicates the purchase actually happened, or what gun was purchased. Maybe the credit card was over limit when the buyer tried to purchase after being approved by NICS, or just changed their mind.

Documentation of the actual purchase (Form 4473) just sits in the backroom of the LGS, in case the AFT wants to come snooping around.

We all did our taxes earlier this year, and we all had to state whether we had health care coverage during the previous year. Check the box and start entering the rest of our information. Does the government really have the ability to verify that we actually had coverage in 2014, with the hundreds (thousands) of different providers, plus all the coverage people have through coverage from work. I really doubt it.

But they know how many times you called mom last year :angry:

 

[Farmhood]

Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[TroutKing]

I've been diagnosed by the VA with a Narcissistic Disorder w/ a Chronic Adjustment Disorder highlighted with a Complusive Aggressive Disorder that's farther enhanced by Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with an excessive heterosexual sex drive.


Paul

Hey, I know a gal that would just love to meet you. :girl_wink:

Kidding aside, I too don't believe the government could refuse a gun to anyone because they have someone else handle their affairs. Some years ago while working under the Clinton Administration, Andrew Cuomo wanted to refuse guns to anyone living in federally subsidized housing. He lost.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy Trout,

Hey, I know a gal that would just love to meet you. :girl_wink:

Kidding aside, I too don't believe the government could refuse a gun to anyone because they have someone else handle their affairs. Some years ago while working under the Clinton Administration, Andrew Cuomo wanted to refuse guns to anyone living in federally subsidized housing. He lost.

She would not happen to be your ex-wife?

Anywho,

I just got an e-mail from Faux Noise claiming Obama is taking guns away from anybody on SS.

But if you'll check Faux Noise's "news article" you'll see it's about allowing the SSA database to be accessed by NICS.

The purpose of this is to prevent people who have been adjudicated incompetent by the SSA from legally purchasing a firearm.

My brother's ex has been adjudicated by the SSA as being mentally incompetent, has a long history of drug and alcohol abuse, and violent actions ( stabbed a deputy sheriff ) and suicide ( stabbed herself after stabbing the deputy ) but since she has never been convicted of a felony she can still legally buy a gun.

Only the SSA has ever adjudicated her as been incompetent and mentally defective.

Paul

 

[TroutKing]

Howdy Trout,



She would not happen to be your ex-wife?

Anywho,

I just got an e-mail from Faux Noise claiming Obama is taking guns away from anybody on SS.

But if you'll check Faux Noise's "news article" you'll see it's about allowing the SSA database to be accessed by NICS.

The purpose of this is to prevent people who have been adjudicated incompetent by the SSA from legally purchasing a firearm.

My brother's ex has been adjudicated by the SSA as being mentally incompetent, has a long history of drug and alcohol abuse, and violent actions ( stabbed a deputy sheriff ) and suicide ( stabbed herself after stabbing the deputy ) but since she has never been convicted of a felony she can still legally buy a gun.

Only the SSA has ever adjudicated her as been incompetent and mentally defective.

Paul

Thus the term "ex-wife" I guess. She didn't like normalcy for sure.

 

[Rhino]

Kidding aside, I too don't believe the government could refuse a gun to anyone because they have someone else handle their affairs.....

Then you haven't been keeping up with current affairs, because the government has been doing it for quite some time already. In fact, this new debate is over the Obama administration simply trying to get the Social Security Administration to do what has already been done at the VA for several years now. This isn't something new. It's just an expansion of an existing practice from one government agency to an additional one. Another piece of the pie so to speak. I didn't believe it when I first heard about it either.
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Senator: Veterans Still Losing Gun Rights Because of VA Reporting | Military.com