the "problem" with OC (and CC, really)

[jg1967]

This has been kinda going around in my mind for a time ... it seems to me that there is a generally critical attitude people take towards it (not you guys here, obviously). So why may that be I was wondering?

- a lot of people want to believe bad things can't happen to them
- if they do they firmly believe that somebody else will come to their aid
- it's fairly unpopular these days to want to take responsibility for anything least of all for carrying a gun and potentially having to use it
- part of that stems from the fact that creative lawyers talk courts into making decisions that defy most common sense. The fear of being sued is not mere paranoia
- the media does their darndest best to make it appear as gun = crime / danger

Sideline note, I'm German but have lived here for 12 years so I am looking at this from an outsider&insider perspective.

A long time ago in ye days of ye olde wilde west (no, I was not around already for that) everybody carried and people "took care" of problems on their own and were used to that. They had a very self-reliant approach to life and it's problems. Nowadays we want to push our problems off into somebody else's lap.

 

[SouthernBoy]

There is a good measure of truth in your assessment of contemporary views in general. By that I mean this same logic can be applied to any one of a number of situations the public might encounter during their day-to-day travels. As far as, "it seems to me that there is a generally critical attitude people take towards it" relating to the carrying of a defensive arm, that may depend a lot on where one lives. Attitudes and demographics do play a significant role in public opinions about carrying a firearm, open or concealed.

For what it's worth, I carry open probably over 95% of the time and have only had one negative encounter, which was from a customer in a MacDonald's.

 

[Jay]

Accountability has taken its leave of us. An attacker is not willing to take accountability for his actions, but if his actions adversely affect me or mine, I will hold him accountable. Folks who insist, or would see to it that others are held accountable, as best we can, are those of us who frequent this board, and many others like it. I hope our numbers are not diminishing........

 

[Raoul]

Americans have come to believe that someone else will take care of the problem. We've become soft and dependent on government, the military, and LE to "take care of us". In the process we continue to give up our rights and freedom so we can drink beer and watch sports.

 

[wuzfuz]

re: The Problem with OC

As noted in my signature, whether it was 18th century France or the Wild West of 1880, an armed society is a polite society. If it was understood that if you overstepped the bounds of courtesy and regulating your actions to the acceptability of your society, there were consequences, and each person saw to their own safety and security. As so-called 'civilization' spread to the west, fewer and fewer people went about their normal business armed, and the weak sisters among us began having the vapors when they spotted a sidearm strapped on someone's hip. Then, in the last century, believe it or not, the SCOTUS ruled that the police do not have a specific duty to protect you because they have a general duty to protect society and preserve the peace. Outside of my duties as a peace officer, I only drew my weapon one time, when confronted in a dark parking lot at night, with my wife beside me, by three unsavory individuals carrying a sawed off pool cue, a bicycle chain and what appeared to be a car radio antenna. I got my wife behind me when they asked if we had any money, and drew my .45, holding it down alongside my leg. I said, "Now, we aren't going to hurt one another, are we?' Seeing that I was an armed citizen prepared to defend my wife and myself, they suddenly remembered they had someplace else to be. It is my sincere belief that citizens who care for and respect our country and our laws should be carrying, ready to accept the responsibility of a good citizen to defend the public good.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This has been kinda going around in my mind for a time ... it seems to me that there is a generally critical attitude people take towards it (not you guys here, obviously).

I agree with what you say except for the bolded part above. There are plenty of "pro-gun" and "pro-2A" people who hate or are afraid of open carry. There are even "pro-gun" and "pro-2A" people who are against Americans carrying firearms unless they possess a license that requires training to obtain. I think the reason being is they have been so accustomed to the anti-gun rhetoric and propaganda pushed by the anti-gun crowd that some of it sticks with them.

 

[Sheldon]

people want to feel safe, violence on TV is only surreal, hence not here, many people tend to deny any such issues as "can't happen here" the rest of us carry guns and train........:biggrin:

 

[6shootercarry]

I agree with what you say except for the bolded part above. There are plenty of "pro-gun" and "pro-2A" people who hate or are afraid of open carry. There are even "pro-gun" and "pro-2A" people who are against Americans carrying firearms unless they possess a license that requires training to obtain. I think the reason being is they have been so accustomed to the anti-gun rhetoric and propaganda pushed by the anti-gun crowd that some of it sticks with them.

Compromise... They feel like they will get more by compromise, or so I've read.
Go read the thread "This just in from NRA-ILA" for some of that mindset...

Open carry or conceal carry. Right and responsibility... Embrace it and exercise the right and responsibility with love and devotion. Or choose not to, but infringe not on the right of others to do so as they choose.

 

[Sheldon]

Along that line of thought....

I feel this trepidation could be more in line with well let me ask you this... How many people do you know that cannot change a light bulb unless the instructions were written on the bulb...

That every time they get in a car you know they are just an accident waiting to happen, or do real stupid things on a regular basis unsafe things.....

Now imagine that person turned loose with a gun, their first gun ever, they watch TV they don't need anyone to tell them how one works or how to use it.... Now they strap it on the hip and are going to go for a walk where they want to because they have a gun, feel safe and just like in the movies they can point and shoot and the bullet will magically go where they want it too (yes a bunch of these people voted for BHO)....

Ignorance promotes extremely unsafe conditions when it comes to firearams, (and other stuff) but I know of people I like, and consider friends but flat out would want to be in the next county if they ever purchased a gun and just threw it on before going on a walk.....

You can accuse me of being elitist if you want but I was taught about gun safety, and how to shoot by my very pro gun Uncle as a young child, have the benefit of 50 years experience and training on top of that, and have read way too many news stories of someone who is unexperienced, shooting themselves or someone else by accident because they were careless at the wrong place and wrong time...

Bottom line we do not need any negative PR because of lack of knowledge, we get enough of that now every time some gang banger shoots another gang banger, and every time that happens there is some weeping adult telling the world how their baby (16-29 year old with a rap sheet) was a good kid and the evil gun was at fault..... N yes the media soaks this kind of barn yard fertilizer up like a kid picking up candy on Holloween.....

 

[jg1967]

Pardon me but I am from Germany so I plan on cc the same way I drive: Shall we say observantly. I use all my mirrors and keep an eye open for the what's goiningg on around me. I don't normally use my phone, eat yoghurt, read the car's manual or any of the myriad idiocies I have to observe every day in traffic.

Personally I do plan on attending training courses although all the training probably can not really prepare you for a situation where you may have to draw.

 

[Corby]

If I may toss my oar into the discussion. Location has a lot to do with the perceptions of both open and concealed carry. I am a retired LEO spent 30 years as a proud member of the NYPD. The thought of most of the residents of NYC open carrying just doesn't work for me. Should NYC be less restrictive in its Concealed carry laws, most definately yes. But the need for the weapon on person is percieved to be less because of the quicker response times of the police. Notice I use the term percieved. There were times waiting for backup to arrive, as quick as they were seemed a very long time. I now live a very rural part of North Carolina. Most in my area carry either concealed or open because they are very aware that uniformed help is a long way away in most cases and the threats are much more immediate. Self reliance is forced on you, in this case, by location. I carry both open and concealed. Open when I am working around my land and in the woods. Cncealed when I go to town to get supplies. When I leave the property my wife straps on her pistol. Our threats here are both animal snakes, dog packs, coyotes and humans, push in burglaries. And so we live by a simple creed Church on Sunday range on Thursday.

 

[mappow]

The whole beauty of the 2nd Amendment is it is not a mandate to have to OC/CC but a right to OC/CC by individual choice. As with all our rights granted to the individual Citizen.

 

[mappow]

I must be confused, I don't see any problem with people carrying firearms as they go about their daily business. I don't go around mugging people, committing rapes, or robbing convenience stores, so I could care less if the person next to me is carrying a sidearm.

There you go again G50AE, using that dam logic. You're supposed to say how you "Feel" about it not some logical process of thought.

 

[handgonnetoter]

This has been kinda going around in my mind for a time ... it seems to me that there is a generally critical attitude people take towards it (not you guys here, obviously). So why may that be I was wondering?

- a lot of people want to believe bad things can't happen to them
- if they do they firmly believe that somebody else will come to their aid
- it's fairly unpopular these days to want to take responsibility for anything least of all for carrying a gun and potentially having to use it
- part of that stems from the fact that creative lawyers talk courts into making decisions that defy most common sense. The fear of being sued is not mere paranoia
- the media does their darndest best to make it appear as gun = crime / danger

Sideline note, I'm German but have lived here for 12 years so I am looking at this from an outsider&insider perspective.

A long time ago in ye days of ye olde wilde west (no, I was not around already for that) everybody carried and people "took care" of problems on their own and were used to that. They had a very self-reliant approach to life and it's problems. Nowadays we want to push our problems off into somebody else's lap.

Thats why things are going to hell in a hand basket around these poor ol' United States anymore.:wacko:

 

[jsimmons]

If I may toss my oar into the discussion. Location has a lot to do with the perceptions of both open and concealed carry. I am a retired LEO spent 30 years as a proud member of the NYPD. The thought of most of the residents of NYC open carrying just doesn't work for me. Should NYC be less restrictive in its Concealed carry laws, most definitely yes. But the need for the weapon on person is perceived to be less because of the quicker response times of the police. Notice I use the term perceived. There were times waiting for backup to arrive, as quick as they were seemed a very long time. I now live a very rural part of North Carolina. Most in my area carry either concealed or open because they are very aware that uniformed help is a long way away in most cases and the threats are much more immediate. Self reliance is forced on you, in this case, by location. I carry both open and concealed. Open when I am working around my land and in the woods. Concealed when I go to town to get supplies. When I leave the property my wife straps on her pistol. Our threats here are both animal snakes, dog packs, coyotes and humans, push in burglaries. And so we live by a simple creed Church on Sunday range on Thursday.

"777"

7 = Most self-defense encounters happen within 7 yards.

7 = Most self-defense encounters are over within 7 seconds

7 = Most police responses take an average of 7 minutes

Technically, the police are not charged with protecting or serving the public - they are charged with enforcing the law.

If it comes to it, I seriously doubt if a bad guy will give me a chance to make a 911 call, much less wait 7 minutes to give the cops a chance to arrive.

I'd like to add a fourth "7" to the list:

7 = How many rounds of .45 ACP that are currently loaded in the magazine of my 1911A1 pistol.

I have other numbers, but they aren't 7's, so are kind of out of context of my response.

 

[Edsworld]

Compromise... They feel like they will get more by compromise, or so I've read.
Go read the thread "This just in from NRA-ILA" for some of that mindset...

Open carry or conceal carry. Right and responsibility... Embrace it and exercise the right and responsibility with love and devotion. Or choose not to, but infringe not on the right of others to do so as they choose.

"Open carry or conceal carry. Right and responsibility... Embrace it and exercise the right and responsibility with love and devotion. Or choose not to, but infringe not on the right of others to do so as they choose."

I like that!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I use that?

 

[Snowman1911]

I'm still confused as to what this so-called "problem" with carrying firearms is.

The "problem" with open carry is the perception of others. I don't see a thing wrong with open carry...that was the law in AZ for years. It seemed like everyone from the guy down the street, to the manager of the local Woolco carried. Good...good for them. Then as time went on and people started to flood into AZ from points east, who were never exposed to it had no clue what the law was, or had no idea that regular folk going about their business could carry a weapon.

I carry concealed most of the time...mainly for the sake of not wanting people to know I am carrying. Not because of a personal anti-open carry attitude, I just...and I hate this word...tactically prefer to keep it concealed against a gun grab. It's mostly a security thing. Yes, I know the weapon retention techniques drilled into me over the years as a cop...but the best retention technique in my opinion is not letting them know you are armed until you need to. Personal choice.

In the little fart of a town I live in....it seems like EVERYONE is open carrying...and frankly in my little town I carry open too. Though most everyone here knows me as a cop, though I am now retired...no one blinks an eye seeing someone carrying. Even Miss Eva...a 76 year old retired teacher carries her Colt Detective Special with her everywhere she goes. Good for her. She doesn't like to "Mess with a sweater...it's such a nice day today." Good for her.

BUT...when I get into Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale....basically out of my home area...I cover it up.

So really...the only "problem" is the perception of people around you...and IF they could be educated...that "problem" would go away. If the rest of "We The People" would see gun people as regular people who have taken the choice to be responsible for our own defense and our own safety, and not as right wing nuts with a gun...many many more would come over from the dark side.

 

[mappow]

The "problem" with open carry is the perception of others. I don't see a thing wrong with open carry...that was the law in AZ for years. It seemed like everyone from the guy down the street, to the manager of the local Woolco carried. Good...good for them. Then as time went on and people started to flood into AZ from points east, who were never exposed to it had no clue what the law was, or had no idea that regular folk going about their business could carry a weapon.

I carry concealed most of the time...mainly for the sake of not wanting people to know I am carrying. Not because of a personal anti-open carry attitude, I just...and I hate this word...tactically prefer to keep it concealed against a gun grab. It's mostly a security thing. Yes, I know the weapon retention techniques drilled into me over the years as a cop...but the best retention technique in my opinion is not letting them know you are armed until you need to. Personal choice.

In the little fart of a town I live in....it seems like EVERYONE is open carrying...and frankly in my little town I carry open too. Though most everyone here knows me as a cop, though I am now retired...no one blinks an eye seeing someone carrying. Even Miss Eva...a 76 year old retired teacher carries her Colt Detective Special with her everywhere she goes. Good for her. She doesn't like to "Mess with a sweater...it's such a nice day today." Good for her.

BUT...when I get into Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale....basically out of my home area...I cover it up.

So really...the only "problem" is the perception of people around you...and IF they could be educated...that "problem" would go away. If the rest of "We The People" would see gun people as regular people who have taken the choice to be responsible for our own defense and our own safety, and not as right wing nuts with a gun...many many more would come over from the dark side.

Don't care about anyone else's perception. BUT agree on the education of the Darksiders. As most of us know, the propaganda that has been disseminated about "GUNS" has skewed most of the general public's opinion. We can't over come that misinformation but if we show, by OC, then we start the normalization of OC'ing.

 

[IWLAFART]

The "problem" with open carry is the perception of others. I don't see a thing wrong with open carry...that was the law in AZ for years. It seemed like everyone from the guy down the street, to the manager of the local Woolco carried. Good...good for them. Then as time went on and people started to flood into AZ from points east, who were never exposed to it had no clue what the law was, or had no idea that regular folk going about their business could carry a weapon.

I carry concealed most of the time...mainly for the sake of not wanting people to know I am carrying. Not because of a personal anti-open carry attitude, I just...and I hate this word...tactically prefer to keep it concealed against a gun grab. It's mostly a security thing. Yes, I know the weapon retention techniques drilled into me over the years as a cop...but the best retention technique in my opinion is not letting them know you are armed until you need to. Personal choice.

In the little fart of a town I live in....it seems like EVERYONE is open carrying...and frankly in my little town I carry open too. Though most everyone here knows me as a cop, though I am now retired...no one blinks an eye seeing someone carrying. Even Miss Eva...a 76 year old retired teacher carries her Colt Detective Special with her everywhere she goes. Good for her. She doesn't like to "Mess with a sweater...it's such a nice day today." Good for her.

BUT...when I get into Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale....basically out of my home area...I cover it up.

So really...the only "problem" is the perception of people around you...and IF they could be educated...that "problem" would go away. If the rest of "We The People" would see gun people as regular people who have taken the choice to be responsible for our own defense and our own safety, and not as right wing nuts with a gun...many many more would come over from the dark side.

^^^^^^^^What he said 100%^^^^^^^^^

 

[NavyLCDR]

So really...the only "problem" is the perception of people around you...and IF they could be educated...that "problem" would go away. If the rest of "We The People" would see gun people as regular people who have taken the choice to be responsible for our own defense and our own safety, and not as right wing nuts with a gun...many many more would come over from the dark side.

Their perception is never going to change if they never see a normal American doing normal things in everyday life, who just happens to be visibly wearing a gun for self defense.

Otherwise, the only guns they are going to see are the guns the media and the Brady Bunch show them.... and we know those guns will not be on the belts of normal Americans engaged in normal everyday activities.