The other kind of LEO

[whodat2710]

On here, some frequently bash LEO's as overbearing, power-hungry zealots. I am not one to argue that none are, but there are fewer of those in my experience.
-
As you know the south got hit hard with ice and downed trees this week. I personally lost many pine tree limbs, which did some damage, but in reality was pretty cool to watch and hear happen. But I digress - Here is that other kind of officer, which IMHO you will find more of in rural America (north, south, wherever) than you will in the big city.
-
SC Highway Patrol names trooper in WIS Facebook post - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina |

 

[whodat2710]

I will add that this is the county I live in, and I would describe our area as more suburbs than rural, but there are definitely some desolate places here where there are few exits off the interstate and no more than a gas station at some of those.
-
Also, how many NYC cops would happen to be equipped with an axe?

 

[BluesStringer]

I will add that this is the county I live in, and I would describe our area as more suburbs than rural, but there are definitely some desolate places here where there are few exits off the interstate and no more than a gas station at some of those.
-
Also, how many NYC cops would happen to be equipped with an axe?

Almost everyone I know carries a large camp knife or axe in their emergency gear. 'Course, my circle of friends was formed through my love of the outdoors and many years of primitive camping with them, but still, I don't see being prepared for basic minor emergencies as any oddity. I don't carry this large knife on my get-home-bag anymore (I sold it to a fellow forum member not long ago), but I carry one that is even better-suited for chopping small and medium-sized logs (like the cop is chopping in the picture at your link) than this one was:

On April 27, 2011 we had massive tornadoes across four states and 35,000 sq. miles that destroyed whole sub-divisions. During a break from helping with the relief effort, I snapped a few pics with my phone. Here's just a couple or three:

Link Removed

Link Removed

Every person on the many crews that I worked with volunteered to clear and help salvage what could be salvaged for the families displaced in that disaster. I was working the graveyard shift at the time, and volunteered during the day every day for the next three weeks after the storms passed, as did literally thousands of neighbors and fellow North Alabamans.

In 2005 my wife and I went to Biloxi, MS after Katrina blew through. I worked at the Salvation Army at the time and drove their food truck down there, while the rest of the coalition of 4 or 5 other charitable .org volunteers, and people that were sent by local businesses traveled in a chartered bus that the businesses paid for. There was a small convoy of the bus, the food truck, another Salvation Army box truck filled with clothes, blankets, and cots, and another Lowe's box truck along with a tractor-trailer filled with generators, pumps, water, food, plywood, nails, staplers, compressors and on and on. We made two trips down there of one week each with three days off in between. Volunteers, including myself, were given the unenviable task of canvasing neighborhoods that had been completely submerged during the flooding, and several bodies were found during our canvasing. The clearing work was grueling. The exhaustion was severe, as was the satisfaction-level extremely high for actually helping people in dire need in many instances. Being willing to get involved is certainly a double-edged sword for anybody, whether volunteer, cop, firefighter, what have you.

So I think I understand the cop in your pic. I relate to that part of him that compels him to get involved, and I commend him for it. I have met and/or know personally literally hundreds of folks who are likewise compelled, the overwhelming majority of them never getting a dime for their efforts, or ever having to honor an oath of service for them to be so-compelled. Not that getting paid or honoring his oath makes that cop any less of service to people in need, but it's just an interesting juxtaposition nonetheless.

But let me tell you what I and the charitable people I have worked with over the years have never done. We've never ignored the 4th Amendment at DUI checkpoints. We've never decided to make someone pay a fine (or not) based on their "attitude" during a traffic stop. We've never enforced unconstitutional laws that violate peoples' rights to assembly, free speech, keeping quiet or carrying a gun (open or concealed) for self-defense. And while we have encountered several people in various degrees of mental distress, confusion, injury and aggressiveness, we have never beat them to death, or tazered or chemical sprayed them into submission, we've never used pressure and pain holds to subdue them, and never tried to establish our authority over them in any way. We've prayed with them, fed them, sheltered them, tried to comfort them, and found medical help for them when necessary.

The uniform that cop is wearing comes with baggage, like it or not. You can dismiss people who recognize the whole width and breadth of what that baggage is as "cop-bashers" if you want, while at the same time implying that chopping a 6" or 8" branch down from across a road that's in his jurisdiction (in other words, that's his job) makes the bashing unjustified, but sorry, I don't see it. There is certainly nothing to criticize in that picture, and I personally wouldn't have said anything about it if you hadn't tried to hold this branch-chopper up as some kind of hero because he went to work and actually served the public for that moment in time. The major problem with cops these days is not that they aren't well-intentioned or generally good people, it's that it's nearly impossible for them to go to work and not violate peoples' rights anymore. Whether it's creeping degradation of warrant requirements and probable cause etc., or the militarization of even small-town cop-shops intended to intimidate and scare people into compliance with unjust and sometimes unconstitutional laws, serving the public is becoming less and less prominent on the agenda, and abusing it is becoming more and more routine.

That's not bashing - that's seeing the world for what it is.

Blues

 

[whodat2710]

The uniform that cop is wearing comes with baggage, like it or not. You can dismiss people who recognize the whole width and breadth of what that baggage is as "cop-bashers" if you want, while at the same time implying that chopping a 6" or 8" branch down from across a road that's in his jurisdiction (in other words, that's his job) makes the bashing unjustified, but sorry, I don't see it. There is certainly nothing to criticize in that picture, and I personally wouldn't have said anything about it if you hadn't tried to hold this branch-chopper up as some kind of hero because he went to work and actually served the public for that moment in time.

Blues

I am not saying he's some kind of hero at all. The guy that took the pic was driving down the open portion of the road, so the highway was passable. There are also electric crews from several states here helping out because of all the down power lines, and some places are not predicted to have power until Sunday. The are all over the place, and armed with chainsaws. Hell, the cop in the picture might be a selfish bastard thinking "if I leave this here some idiots gonna hit it and I'll be stuck with more paperwork." I have seen as many cops around here responding to wrecks, helping change tires etc. as I have seen writing tickets or manning checkpoints.
-
I don't recall any public outcry in this area about any abusive cops, or those that bend or ignore the Constitution. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it is not as prevalent here. Most of the cops I have had dealings with here just don't give that impression, and I honestly believe that stuff comes from the top down. If the Sherriff or Chief of Police is a POS, or just lazy and disconnected from what is happening, then the troops will go awry. If the people that elect or the politician that appoints that Sherriff or C.O.P. are agreeable to the rights of the people being violated "for the public good" it will be tolerated. In a primarily conservative state (or city, county, whatever) it is not tolerated, and those that choose to operate outside their realm of authority will probably be looking for work soon.

 

[BluesStringer]

I am not saying he's some kind of hero at all. The guy that took the pic was driving down the open portion of the road, so the highway was passable. There are also electric crews from several states here helping out because of all the down power lines, and some places are not predicted to have power until Sunday. The are all over the place, and armed with chainsaws. Hell, the cop in the picture might be a selfish bastard thinking "if I leave this here some idiots gonna hit it and I'll be stuck with more paperwork." I have seen as many cops around here responding to wrecks, helping change tires etc. as I have seen writing tickets or manning checkpoints.
-
I don't recall any public outcry in this area about any abusive cops, or those that bend or ignore the Constitution. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it is not as prevalent here. Most of the cops I have had dealings with here just don't give that impression, and I honestly believe that stuff comes from the top down. If the Sherriff or Chief of Police is a POS, or just lazy and disconnected from what is happening, then the troops will go awry. If the people that elect or the politician that appoints that Sherriff or C.O.P. are agreeable to the rights of the people being violated "for the public good" it will be tolerated. In a primarily conservative state (or city, county, whatever) it is not tolerated, and those that choose to operate outside their realm of authority will probably be looking for work soon.

Somehow this seems to contradict your rationale for posting a link in the first place. Your very first line suggested that you wanted to counter the "bashers" by posting the link to the pic by saying:

On here, some frequently bash LEO's as overbearing, power-hungry zealots. I am not one to argue that none are, but there are fewer of those in my experience.

Now you say that you have no idea what kind of cop the branch-chopper is, which was really my point of replying to begin with. One act of service does nothing to demonstrate that he doesn't engage in the abuses that have become all too common by all cops across the country. Does SC have DUI checkpoints? It would surprise me to no end to find out you don't. Assuming I will not be surprised by your answer, that is just one example of how commonplace abuses of the 4th Amendment have become, and how it is impossible for cops to do their jobs while fully complying with the restrictions placed on them by the Constitution anymore.

It sounds like you and I live in very similar places. Not quite rural, but far enough from big-city life to still have that "country" kind of feel. To the extent that that is true, that we do live in similar demographic and cultural locations, I view the cops here much like you do - not physically abusive at the drop of a hat, not nefarious of intent in how they approach their jobs, generally polite and helpful, and whatever other neutral or positive characterizations one might contemplate. But none of that changes the fact that DUI checkpoints are a regular thing here, as well as less ubiquitous examples of overreach.

About a year ago I recounted a story of a cop whom I had become pretty good friends with going off the rails not only right in front of me, but in my business's parking lot. I watched him abuse a guy who I guess was speeding while he was trying to get a pregnant woman to the hospital for delivery to the point of knocking two of his teeth out on the hood of his own car. I tried to end the recounting of the story with some profound moral wisdom, but the best I could come up with is, "You just never know." And you don't. Not in "country" America, and not in the big cities. Not in the South, and not in the North, East or West. No place is free from the abuses that cops regularly perpetrate on citizens in this country, and no tug-at-the-heartstrings picture of a cop doing nice things can change that truism. Even if I recognized the cop in that picture when he pulled me over for a burned out tail light or something just as innocuous and non-threatening, I wouldn't have any confidence that the contact with law enforcement wouldn't end in my being beaten or killed until after the stop ended peacefully and I was on my way unharmed. I learned that lesson from a former friend 16 or 17 years ago.

Blues

 

[SGT504MP]

I will add that this is the county I live in, and I would describe our area as more suburbs than rural, but there are definitely some desolate places here where there are few exits off the interstate and no more than a gas station at some of those.
-
Also, how many NYC cops would happen to be equipped with an axe?

We NYC cops would just push the tree out of the way. If an axe was needed we would call the FDNY.

 

[telpinaro]

There are plenty of good cops out here... I've met a few, thanks to my son and my dog calling 911. Yes, my dog. The deputies were skeptical as well. The best one was when some lady tried to escape a traffic ticket by going down my driveway. Just imagine the sight of someone speeding down your driveway followed by flashing lights! (Long driveway.) Fun day.

Granted, this is a small county sheriff's department. I wouldn't be nearly so happy to see Denver police.

 

[AndeyHall]

Somehow this seems to contradict your rationale for posting a link in the first place. Your very first line suggested that you wanted to counter the "bashers" by posting the link to the pic by saying:



Now you say that you have no idea what kind of cop the branch-chopper is, which was really my point of replying to begin with. One act of service does nothing to demonstrate that he doesn't engage in the abuses that have become all too common by all cops across the country. Does SC have DUI checkpoints? It would surprise me to no end to find out you don't. Assuming I will not be surprised by your answer, that is just one example of how commonplace abuses of the 4th Amendment have become, and how it is impossible for cops to do their jobs while fully complying with the restrictions placed on them by the Constitution anymore.

It sounds like you and I live in very similar places. Not quite rural, but far enough from big-city life to still have that "country" kind of feel. To the extent that that is true, that we do live in similar demographic and cultural locations, I view the cops here much like you do - not physically abusive at the drop of a hat, not nefarious of intent in how they approach their jobs, generally polite and helpful, and whatever other neutral or positive characterizations one might contemplate. But none of that changes the fact that DUI checkpoints are a regular thing here, as well as less ubiquitous examples of overreach.

About a year ago I recounted a story of a cop whom I had become pretty good friends with going off the rails not only right in front of me, but in my business's parking lot. I watched him abuse a guy who I guess was speeding while he was trying to get a pregnant woman to the hospital for delivery to the point of knocking two of his teeth out on the hood of his own car. I tried to end the recounting of the story with some profound moral wisdom, but the best I could come up with is, "You just never know." And you don't. Not in "country" America, and not in the big cities. Not in the South, and not in the North, East or West. No place is free from the abuses that cops regularly perpetrate on citizens in this country, and no tug-at-the-heartstrings picture of a cop doing nice things can change that truism. Even if I recognized the cop in that picture when he pulled me over for a burned out tail light or something just as innocuous and non-threatening, I wouldn't have any confidence that the contact with law enforcement wouldn't end in my being beaten or killed until after the stop ended peacefully and I was on my way unharmed. I learned that lesson from a former friend 16 or 17 years ago.

Blues

To my knowledge, here in SC the only agency that does DUI checkpoints is the Highway Patrol. I have never seen a local agency do one, and I know the Sheriff's Office I work for, nor any other municipality within this county does them.

 

[BluesStringer]

To my knowledge, here in SC the only agency that does DUI checkpoints is the Highway Patrol. I have never seen a local agency do one, and I know the Sheriff's Office I work for, nor any other municipality within this county does them.

 

[AndeyHall]

So in your mind, one cop doing something good and nice for his community does not even make HIM a good cop, much less any of his colleagues. But at the same time, at the sight of one cop doing something bad, you're more than happy to label him a bad cop AND extend that label to his colleagues and just about all of law enforcement as a whole. Hypocrite much?Link Removed

 

[BluesStringer]

So in your mind, one cop doing something good and nice for his community does not even make HIM a good cop, much less any of his colleagues.

You got all that from "Blah Blah?" You're pathetic. I can't imagine what you might write in a report about someone who sarcastically just said "Blah Blah" to you. I have little doubt that your masters have taught you how to criminalize such dismissiveness of your authority though.

The cop in the picture did absolutely nothing that I haven't volunteered to do a thousand fold more of. I've even traveled far away from my community to help where needed several times. Never wanted, asked for or took a single dime for any of it. People don't need a freakin' badge, a pair of jack-boots and a "your rights don't matter" attitude to cut down a peenchy 6" or 8" branch from across a road.

And really, you're honestly trying to say that the picture of that cop doing his freakin' job says something about his colleagues? Where do you come up with this stuff?

But at the same time, at the sight of one cop doing something bad, you're more than happy to label him a bad cop

No moron, his actions label him a bad cop, and it doesn't make me happy one little bit.

AND extend that label to his colleagues and just about all of law enforcement as a whole.

If his colleagues witnessed whatever it is you're visualizing as "the sight of one cop doing something bad" and they close ranks and protect him by not telling the truth about what happened, then yeah, they're bad cops too by their own actions. I have absolutely nothing to do with "labeling" them as "bad," they either are or they aren't. Now if you want to give a specific instance where a cop (or a group of cops) came forward to tell the truth about abuses of citizens and violations of law that one of their colleagues engaged in, instead of some mindless hypothetical with zero details from which to evaluate, then I'm happy to take such a cop (or cops) on a case-by-case basis. But if you're going to try to tell me that most cops don't close ranks around the abusers, then save your freakin' lies.

As far as extending anything to law enforcement as a whole, listen up Junior. I see very severe problems with law enforcement in this country. I believe it's a top-down problem, starting at the Supreme Court and trickling its way down to street-level cops. I'm a free citizen of the United States. I possess and exercise the right to view the system through any prism that works for me. I said above that I believe that most cops are well-intentioned enough, but that the system is so corrupt, and so beyond usurpative of the Constitution, that it is impossible for cops to do their jobs within the confines of that austere document anymore. I ascribe nefarious intent to those whom I can see or understand through reading about the details of a given case where their individual abuses are obvious and egregious, or particularly barbaric, like the Kelly Thomas case and his murderers. But when it comes to "all of law enforcement as a whole," I am scrutinizing a corrupted system, and not ascribing ill intent on every single one of them. But if you take an oath to protect and defend the precepts and principles of the Constitution, and then spew the same violative garbage that goes completely against it that may derive from someone as low on the totem pole as your shift supervisor, or may come from on high at the SCOTUS, you don't get a free pass from me because you can't honor your oath by simply reading it and abiding by it. If you accept permission from SCOTUS or your agency leaders to violate the rights of citizens or the precepts and principles of the Constitution, you're as guilty as they are, corrupt as they are, thuggish as they are, and as much a tool of tyrants as they are.

This is why I simply said "Blah Blah." You don't accept straight talk. You make sh!t up about what I say just like cops are trained to do. Freakin' pathetic.

Hypocrite much?

How is telling the truth about what I think and believe, and sticking to it like glue, hypocritical in any way?

You replied to me. I made it clear that you have nothing to offer me in the way of stimulating conversation. I said "Blah Blah" to you. I didn't say or intend to imply anything about the cop who is the subject of the OP.

Go ahead and make up some more brainless drivel about what this reply means. What a moron who thinks that the mode of travel is what determines whether or not a citizen has the right to utilize it for the purpose of traveling has nothing of value to offer me. Of course, that's just the most recent exposure of usurping authority you believe yourself to possess. There's plenty of other examples.

It just looks like

to me. So pound sand Andey. I think you're so full of craptastic brainwashing that you are not allowed by your handlers to let the truth of what I say penetrate it. You work for a corrupt system. You refuse to acknowledge any part of it as being corrupt. You enforce unconstitutional laws. You rely on evil and corrupt politicians and oligarchs to give you permission to devolve even further into corruption of the Constitution than this country already finds itself subject to. You are The Problem. Every subsequent post you address to me will just solidify that belief, and will just be more brainwashed "Blah Blah" prattle to me.

Blues

 

[AndeyHall]

You got all that from "Blah Blah?" You're pathetic. I can't imagine what you might write in a report about someone who sarcastically just said "Blah Blah" to you. I have little doubt that your masters have taught you how to criminalize such dismissiveness of your authority though.

The cop in the picture did absolutely nothing that I haven't volunteered to do a thousand fold more of. I've even traveled far away from my community to help where needed several times. Never wanted, asked for or took a single dime for any of it. People don't need a freakin' badge, a pair of jack-boots and a "your rights don't matter" attitude to cut down a peenchy 6" or 8" branch from across a road.

And really, you're honestly trying to say that the picture of that cop doing his freakin' job says something about his colleagues? Where do you come up with this stuff?



No moron, his actions label him a bad cop, and it doesn't make me happy one little bit.



If his colleagues witnessed whatever it is you're visualizing as "the sight of one cop doing something bad" and they close ranks and protect him by not telling the truth about what happened, then yeah, they're bad cops too by their own actions. I have absolutely nothing to do with "labeling" them as "bad," they either are or they aren't. Now if you want to give a specific instance where a cop (or a group of cops) came forward to tell the truth about abuses of citizens and violations of law that one of their colleagues engaged in, instead of some mindless hypothetical with zero details from which to evaluate, then I'm happy to take such a cop (or cops) on a case-by-case basis. But if you're going to try to tell me that most cops don't close ranks around the abusers, then save your freakin' lies.

As far as extending anything to law enforcement as a whole, listen up Junior. I see very severe problems with law enforcement in this country. I believe it's a top-down problem, starting at the Supreme Court and trickling its way down to street-level cops. I'm a free citizen of the United States. I possess and exercise the right to view the system through any prism that works for me. I said above that I believe that most cops are well-intentioned enough, but that the system is so corrupt, and so beyond usurpative of the Constitution, that it is impossible for cops to do their jobs within the confines of that austere document anymore. I ascribe nefarious intent to those whom I can see or understand through reading about the details of a given case where their individual abuses are obvious and egregious, or particularly barbaric, like the Kelly Thomas case and his murderers. But when it comes to "all of law enforcement as a whole," I am scrutinizing a corrupted system, and not ascribing ill intent on every single one of them. But if you take an oath to protect and defend the precepts and principles of the Constitution, and then spew the same violative garbage that goes completely against it that may derive from someone as low on the totem pole as your shift supervisor, or may come from on high at the SCOTUS, you don't get a free pass from me because you can't honor your oath by simply reading it and abiding by it. If you accept permission from SCOTUS or your agency leaders to violate the rights of citizens or the precepts and principles of the Constitution, you're as guilty as they are, corrupt as they are, thuggish as they are, and as much a tool of tyrants as they are.

This is why I simply said "Blah Blah." You don't accept straight talk. You make sh!t up about what I say just like cops are trained to do. Freakin' pathetic.



How is telling the truth about what I think and believe, and sticking to it like glue, hypocritical in any way?

You replied to me. I made it clear that you have nothing to offer me in the way of stimulating conversation. I said "Blah Blah" to you. I didn't say or intend to imply anything about the cop who is the subject of the OP.

Go ahead and make up some more brainless drivel about what this reply means. What a moron who thinks that the mode of travel is what determines whether or not a citizen has the right to utilize it for the purpose of traveling has nothing of value to offer me. Of course, that's just the most recent exposure of usurping authority you believe yourself to possess. There's plenty of other examples.

It just looks like

to me. So pound sand Andey. I think you're so full of craptastic brainwashing that you are not allowed by your handlers to let the truth of what I say penetrate it. You work for a corrupt system. You refuse to acknowledge any part of it as being corrupt. You enforce unconstitutional laws. You rely on evil and corrupt politicians and oligarchs to give you permission to devolve even further into corruption of the Constitution than this country already finds itself subject to. You are The Problem. Every subsequent post you address to me will just solidify that belief, and will just be more brainwashed "Blah Blah" prattle to me.

Blues

Link Removed

Actually I took your advice on the "mode of travel" argument, since you say that all people have the right to travel, no matter the mode, without any interference from me. I saw a 6 year old taking his dad's car down I-85 and I was going to stop him, but I thought to myself "I'm gonna make Blues proud and let him just go on his merry little way". Everyone in the jail also wanted to go home and, since I have no right to restrict their travel, I had to release them all. Boy I sure feel like I've really got this Constitution thing down! Thanks Blues!

 

[BluesStringer]

Link Removed

Actually I took your advice on the "mode of travel" argument, since you say that all people have the right to travel, no matter the mode, without any interference from me. I saw a 6 year old taking his dad's car down I-85 and I was going to stop him, but I thought to myself "I'm gonna make Blues proud and let him just go on his merry little way". Everyone in the jail also wanted to go home and, since I have no right to restrict their travel, I had to release them all. Boy I sure feel like I've really got this Constitution thing down! Thanks Blues!

Proof again that you won't accept the truth when it's laid out for you. All this childish crap was covered in the other thread, kid.

I am only addressing the "right" vs. "privilege" to drive on public roads and highways here. I am not addressing licensing, registration, toll roads, insurance mandates, "rules of the road" regulation or any other side-issue that might arise from finding a *right* to drive as a valid concept......

.....One can argue the legalities of, constitutionality of, or prudence of DUI checkpoints in light of the "reasonable regulation under law" mentioned above, but to assert the act of driving as allowable or not allowable by government because of its legal status as nothing more than a "privilege" is legal illiteracy at best, and brain-dead belief in indoctrination that teaches otherwise well-meaning men and women that they have the authority to trample on any rights of The People at worst. All too often, it is the worst choice that is the case.

Apparently you're not only a legal illiterate, but you're actually too illiterate to respond intelligently to what you read, if that is, you bother to read it at all before "replying" to "it."

Dumb cop. Your bros wouldn't appreciate you pushing the stereotype so freakin' hard.

Blues

 

[AndeyHall]

Proof again that you won't accept the truth when it's laid out for you. All this childish crap was covered in the other thread, kid.



Apparently you're not only a legal illiterate, but you're actually too illiterate to respond intelligently to what you read, if that is, you bother to read it at all before "replying" to "it."

Dumb cop. Your bros wouldn't appreciate you pushing the stereotype so freakin' hard.

Blues

I actually don't read all your posts, so there's that. Who has the time? But DUI checks are actually used as license/registration/insurance checks most of the time. So if you don't oppose those things, what is wrong with making sure everyone is a legal driver?

Pretty sure this is your shortest post ever where you actually typed something.

 

[BluesStringer]

I actually don't read all your posts, so there's that. Who has the time? But DUI checks are actually used as license/registration/insurance checks most of the time. So if you don't oppose those things, what is wrong with making sure everyone is a legal driver?

Pretty sure this is your shortest post ever where you actually typed something.

Well, it doesn't take any time for you to post drivel that has nothing but your uninformed word to back it up, so there is that.

And of course you don't read my posts. Nothing matters to you if it comes from a lowly citizen just trying to stand up for his rights, right? Thanks for the confirmation. From now on I will just address you as "The Problem," The Problem.

Just because it is legal and constitutional to regulate driving doesn't mean the driver gives up his 4th Amendment rights to be free from government intrusion without something close to probable cause. I don't like the articulable suspicion standard that's several steps lower than the probable cause standard written into the 4th Amendment, but it's something anyway, and it is violated every single time a citizen is stopped for a "Show Me Your Papers" stop. Only freakin' Nazis would stand up for such tyranny.

The Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That says clearly that citizens are protected from "Show Me Your Papers" stops. Just freakin' read it, The Problem. You swore an oath before God Almighty to protect and defend it, and none of your Kindergarten deflections about six year olds being allowed to drive has a thing in the world to do with that amendment. Keep defending Nazi-type laws, and you will be responsible for earning the reputation of being Nazi-like. Who knows? Maybe that's your goal. If so, you are showing yourself to be very goal-oriented.

Blues

 

[AndeyHall]

Well, it doesn't take any time for you to post drivel that has nothing but your uninformed word to back it up, so there is that.

And of course you don't read my posts. Nothing matters to you if it comes from a lowly citizen just trying to stand up for his rights, right? Thanks for the confirmation. From now on I will just address you as "The Problem," The Problem.

Just because it is legal and constitutional to regulate driving doesn't mean the driver gives up his 4th Amendment rights to be free from government intrusion without something close to probable cause. I don't like the articulable suspicion standard that's several steps lower than the probable cause standard written into the 4th Amendment, but it's something anyway, and it is violated every single time a citizen is stopped for a "Show Me Your Papers" stop. Only freakin' Nazis would stand up for such tyranny.



That say clearly that citizens are protected from "Show Me Your Papers" stops. Just freakin' read it, The Problem. You swore an oath before God Almighty to protect and defend it, and none of your Kindergarten deflections about six year olds being allowed to drive has a thing in the world to do with that amendment. Keep defending Nazi-type laws, and you will be responsible for earning the reputation of being Nazi-like. Who knows? Maybe that's your goal. If so, you are showing yourself to be very goal-oriented.

Blues

You said you support licensing, registration, and insurance. Why would anyone ever do any of that if they do not ever have to worry about being asked for it. I'm going to just let my license and tag expire, never pay for insurance again, and if ever asked by a cop for any information to prove I have it say "F@ck you, the 4th amendment says you can't ask me for that stuff unless you get a warrant based upon probably cause that I don't have it. See ya!", and then speed off. I mean I might could get away with that, cause all I'd have to do is flash my badge, but you Lowly Citizen couldn't (I guess if we're going to come up with nicknames for each other, I should use the one you suggested).

 

[BluesStringer]

You said you support licensing, registration, and insurance.

Lie. Never said any such thing.

Why would anyone ever do any of that if they do not ever have to worry about being asked for it.

They do have to worry about being asked for it, whenever they give cops a valid reason to suspect them of doing something that's against the law.

So you've never even heard of the 4th Amendment, have you?

I'm going to just let my license and tag expire, never pay for insurance again, and if ever asked by a cop for any information to prove I have it say "F@ck you, the 4th amendment says you can't ask me for that stuff unless you get a warrant based upon probably cause that I don't have it. See ya!", and then speed off.

You started with Kindergarten deflections. Now you're in pre-school.

I mean I might could get away with that, cause all I'd have to do is flash my badge, but you Lowly Citizen couldn't (I guess if we're going to come up with nicknames for each other, I should use the one you suggested).

How does your duty belt fit with a loaded diaper?

What an idiot.

Blues

 

[AndeyHall]

Lie. Never said any such thing.



They do have to worry about being asked for it, whenever they give cops a valid reason to suspect them of doing something that's against the law.

So you've never even heard of the 4th Amendment, have you?



You started with Kindergarten deflections. Now you're in pre-school.



How does your duty belt fit with a loaded diaper?

What an idiot.

Blues

You quoted and bolded yourself saying it in post #13. You said you are not addressing licensing and all those others as issues restricting the "right to drive".

 

[BluesStringer]

You quoted and bolded yourself saying it in post #13. You said you are not addressing licensing and all those others as issues restricting the "right to drive".

I repeat, what an idiot. On the uber-ignorant list you go.

 

[AndeyHall]

I repeat, what an idiot. On the uber-ignorant list you go.

It's right there in post #13 Lowly Citizen.