The last word on the Bathroom issue....what do you think?


Blueshell

Banned
Then how can you comment on what it's like for a woman in the ladies' room?
I didn't.

I said I use restrooms with other men in them all the time and it's never been a problem. Statisticaly I've stood at a urinal, which is considerably less private than a stall, next to a homosexual, a Transgender, a convicted fellon, etc. It's never been a problem.

Why do you think all men are out to rape you and the only thing stopping them is a sign on the door?
 

Reba

Sinner saved by grace
Those other areas are not private for your privacy concerns to apply.

Yes, they are. Otherwise the stalls would simply be lined up in open hallways.

There's a reason why public facilities are made that way. It's so we can take care of private activities in private. (And private is not limited to the toilet.)
 

Blueshell

Banned
Yes, they are. Otherwise the stalls would simply be lined up in open hallways.

There's a reason why public facilities are made that way. It's so we can take care of private activities in private. (And private is not limited to the toilet.)
There's the stall, which is private, and then there's the rest of the restroom, which is not private.
 

Reba

Sinner saved by grace
There's the stall, which is private, and then there's the rest of the restroom, which is not private.
I don't know what kind of restrooms you use but the ones I use are private in that the whole room is out of view from the passing public. Changing areas, sink wash up areas, etc., are in the restroom or locker room or shower room, not out in the open in the school, gym, store, restaurant or mall. All kinds of grooming and hygiene activities happen, not just toilet use.
 

Blueshell

Banned
I don't know what kind of restrooms you use but the ones I use are private in that the whole room is out of view from the passing public. Changing areas, sink wash up areas, etc., are in the restroom or locker room or shower room, not out in the open in the school, gym, store, restaurant or mall. All kinds of grooming and hygiene activities happen, not just toilet use.
The public is in the restroom, everywhere but your stall.

Only the toilet is private. All the rest of the room is public.
 

Blueshell

Banned
Public to other women, yes. Not to men.
So you've never seen or heard of a mom bringing her young son into the ladies room with her? It's a common practice.

Public is public, you either have what the law calls "a reasonable expectation of privacy" or you don't. You have it in the stall, you don't have it at the sink.

If a father brings his young daughter into the ladies room there's nothing wrong with that. If a mom brings her young son into the men's room there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Reba

Sinner saved by grace
So you've never seen or heard of a mom bringing her young son into the ladies room with her? It's a common practice.
They aren't "men."

Public is public, you either have what the law calls "a reasonable expectation of privacy" or you don't. You have it in the stall, you don't have it at the sink.
Yes, you do. That's why there's an exterior door or passageway to the restroom. People in the rest of the building can't see you. It's just not the same degree of privacy but it's still privacy from the general public.

If a father brings his young daughter into the ladies room there's nothing wrong with that. If a mom brings her young son into the men's room there's nothing wrong with that.
Yes, there is.

Have you done this or seen this done?
 

Blueshell

Banned
They aren't "men."
They aren't "women".

Yes, you do. That's why there's an exterior door or passageway to the restroom. People in the rest of the building can't see you. It's just not the same degree of privacy but it's still privacy from the general public.
No, you don't, that's why everyone entering the restroom can see you. Not so with stalls.

Related caselaw: CNN.com - A federal court puts the 'public' In 'public restrooms' - Feb 9, 2005

You have privacy while in the stall with the door closed. You do not have privacy anywhere else. All areas of the bathroom outside of a closed stall are public. As soon as you open your stall, you're back in public.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
They aren't "women".


No, you don't, that's why everyone entering the restroom can see you. Not so with stalls.

Related caselaw: CNN.com - A federal court puts the 'public' In 'public restrooms' - Feb 9, 2005

You have privacy while in the stall with the door closed. You do not have privacy anywhere else. All areas of the bathroom outside of a closed stall are public. As soon as you open your stall, you're back in public.

100% irrelevant citation that has nothing whatsoever to do with gender-specific or gender-neutral bathroom laws.
 

Blueshell

Banned
100% irrelevant citation that has nothing whatsoever to do with gender-specific or gender-neutral bathroom laws.
I'm sorry you weren't following the conversation.

Reba is conserned that her privacy would be violated if a male-to-femail trangender person were washing his hands at a sink next to her while she washes her hands. Every part of a public restroom beyond a closed stall is public space, so privacy isn't violated.

I've washed my hands in public many times...at work, at parks, etc, and not once did I feel my privacy was being violated.

Urinals being considerably less private than stalls, a female-to-male Transgender person could stand near me and use a GoGirl and I would never know or care because I mind my own business.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
I'm sorry you weren't following the conversation.

Reba is conserned that her privacy would be violated if a male-to-femail trangender person were washing his hands at a sink next to her while she washes her hands. Every part of a public restroom beyond a closed stall is public space, so privacy isn't violated.

Urinals being considerably less private than stalls, a female-to-male Transgender person could stand near me and use a GoGirl and I would never know or care because I mind my own business.

Reba can speak for herself, and so can the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, which they did in the case you cited. That case was entirely about privacy as-defined within the Fourth Amendment. It had nothing to do with "privacy" concerns between individuals and/or genders, and everything to do with when and where Fourth Amendment protections of being left alone by government are mandated or mitigated under which sets of circumstances. In that case, Hill's protections were mitigated by several circumstances, none of which had anything to do with privacy between genders. Even your own link states that the court took into consideration that two people entering a one-seat bathroom together was suspicious enough to have authorized entry by law enforcement, so if anything, that link supports the notion that gender-specific bathrooms are the natural order of things in the eyes of the law.

In its opinion, the court first notes that the restroom in question was what one might call a one-seater. That is, it had facilities for only one customer at a time, unlike a restroom containing multiple stalls. In this particular bathroom, it was accordingly deviant and perhaps suspicious for Hill and a woman to enter together.

U.S. v. Hill has not one single thing to do with privacy between genders in public bathrooms, and in fact, if one reads the actual ruling instead of an 11-year-old CNN analysis of it, they will find that an expectation of privacy for a limited duration is indeed acknowledged by the Eighth Circuit court when it says:

In the present case, the restroom was designed for use by one person, it was located in a convenience store, and available for use by customers and guests of the store.   Hill and his female companion occupied the restroom in a manner for which it was not designed, and remained there after being asked to leave.   Under these circumstances, we hold that whatever reasonable expectation of privacy Hill and his companion had expired by the time the officers arrived.

100% irrelevant cite to anything being discussed in this thread.

Blues
 

Blueshell

Banned
Reba can speak for herself, and so can the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit, which they did in the case you cited. That case was entirely about privacy as-defined within the Fourth Amendment. It had nothing to do with "privacy" concerns between individuals and/or genders, and everything to do with when and where Fourth Amendment protections of being left alone by government are mandated or mitigated under which sets of circumstances. In that case, Hill's protections were mitigated by several circumstances, none of which had anything to do with privacy between genders. Even your own link states that the court took into consideration that two people entering a one-seat bathroom together was suspicious enough to have authorized entry by law enforcement, so if anything, that link supports the notion that gender-specific bathrooms are the natural order of things in the eyes of the law.



U.S. v. Hill has not one single thing to do with privacy between genders in public bathrooms, and in fact, if one reads the actual ruling instead of an 11-year-old CNN analysis of it, they will find that an expectation of privacy for a limited duration is indeed acknowledged by the Eighth Circuit court when it says:



100% irrelevant cite to anything being discussed in this thread.

Blues
I'm sorry you don't understand the topic. There is no privacy to be violated once one steps out of the closed stall.

Reba believes that washing her hands at the sink is private. It is not.
 

ken grant

New member
I'm sorry you don't understand the topic. There is no privacy to be violated once one steps out of the closed stall.

Reba believes that washing her hands at the sink is private. It is not.

What if a female has to wash her private parts for some reason?
Should she use the water in the commode inside the stall?
 

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