The "Gun Attitude"

[Harry Carry]

I posted the following on another forum recently. I wrote it in response to another forum user that, in my opinion, was rude with his response to a question that I had asked. Although I did not identify the other forum member in any manner, he whined to the forum administrator and I was promptly booted from the board.

As I noted in my writing, the VAST MAJORITY of gun people are simply wonderful. And forums (fora?) like this are a godsend to people like me who are still learning. So please accept my appreciation for all of the wonderful advice that I have received on these boards.

The Gun Attitude

My wife and I are “gun people”. For the past eleven years, we have lived in the country and we cannot imagine what life would be like without our guns. There is a sense of security that comes from knowing that an intruder can be dealt with knowing that law enforcement may be twenty (or more) minutes away.

Although I dabbled in guns in my early-20’s, I still consider my wife and me to be relative newbies. We have both taken classes in the handling of firearms, we have our concealed carry permits, and we both feel comfortable around guns. However, neither of us is comfortable enough to do a whole lot more than simple breakdown and cleaning of firearms. Which brings me to my point:

Gun people are REALLY good people. We all share a common appreciation of firearms and I would venture to say that 90-plus percent stand by the Second Amendment. But there is a certain “attitude” that seems to emanate from a relatively small percentage of gun people. I have heard the same sentiment from some other gun “newbies”. To the uninitiated, at first, firearms can seem intimidating. And to a newbie, a patient and caring gun person is appreciated.

Unfortunately, it seems that more than a few of these people with the “gun attitude” seem to work in gun shops and at ranges – and frequent online forums. In my opinion, this sense of impatience toward new shooters can make gun newbies feel even MORE intimidated.

Don’t get me wrong; the vast majority of gun people online and personnel in gun shops are wonderful and more than willing to offer advice. But there are some who seem to have trouble tempering the “what do you mean you don’t know how to…?” attitude.

With those on the left seeking to take away our right to keep and bear arms, one would think that gun people would check their attitude at the door and welcome those who are new to the sport – and the culture.

My advice is this: We should ALL be interested in helping to further the sport/hobby. We should be rolling out the welcome mat to new shooters. We should welcome their questions and be gracious when responding. If we cannot offer constructive assistance without our “gun attitude” bubbling to the surface, we should refrain from responding.

Again, 99.9 percent of gun people are wonderful. We have an appreciation for freedom in all aspects of life – but especially when it comes to the Second Amendment. There is a sense of camaraderie that is not found in any other pastime.

So please help to make the sport enjoyable and less intimidating to new people. We need to grow our numbers. If you are among those who have it, please check your “gun attitude” at the door. A caring and welcoming attitude toward new shooters will pay us dividends in the long run.

 

[ChitownCCW]

Welcome

 

[Warrior1256]

Welcome aboard.

 

[JeanP]

I have only been interested in handguns for a few years. When I first started exploring in the wonderful world of handguns, I too, ran across some people with the attitude you write about. I was also a bit intimidated by some people in gun stores. But, never at any range. I have found that most people at the various ranges i have been to are very friendly, helpful and just plain nice. Most are eager to share their knowledge with a newcomer. I have learned so much from other shooters. Now that I have more experience as a handgun shooter, I find that I have more confidence when talking to others about guns. I know I still have a lot to learn and appreciate everyone who has helped me in the past (and those who I know will help me in the future). You are right, Harry, we need to all check our attitude when talking to newbies. We all were newbies once upon a time.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

We should ALL be interested in helping to further the sport/hobby.

Just a quick note here...

My guns are not nor have they been purchased for "sport" or "hobby".
My guns have been acquired for the express purpose of personal defense.
My guns are lethal killing machines, perfected over generations for just that one task... To kill.
I have a tremendous aversion to the term "sporting guns".
Guns have been developed to punch holes in people, not paper and I think it is a great disservice to marginalize their actual function.
There has been a move towards referring to weapons as "sporting arms" so that we can make them sound "more respectable" to the sheeple.
So I say that I own weapons.
Weapons designed through years of testing and research.
Perfected and fine tuned for their original purpose.
To punch holes into anyone who would attempt to deprive me or mine of my pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[wolf_fire]

Harry, first and foremost, welcome.

Secondly, there is a faction from all walks of life that are just plain rude. I usually refer to them as the 10%ers. I ride motorcycles, and most of them are great, except for the 10%ers. I teach, and most teachers are great, except for the 10%ers (hopefully your child doesn't have one for a teacher). Hopefully, you get my point. You're never going to change the attitude of a 10%er, because that's who they are. It would be great if all people that owned guns had no attitude and never made anyone feel uncomfortable. If that were truly the case, um, there would be no need for guns for our protection, because, um, everyone would be kind and nice and live in the rose-colored world of happiness.

Yes, it's a setback for a new shooter to experience a 10%er, but it's a setback in any new field someone gets into and experiences one of these types. Deal with it. Now that you are among the firearms community, you will need to have a strong spine dealing with the anti-gun folks, and the haters of the 2nd Amendment. That is if you let any of them know you carry.

It has been my experience however, that most people in the firearms community are more than willing to help out. Are there know-it-alls, yes. Are there some that are condescending, yes. Are there some that are just rude b@st@rds, yes. They are 10%ers. Ignore them. Seek out the other 90% and get the help you need, want, desire.

If you are going to use your firearms for self-defense, I have to echo what CharlesMorrison posted. He may hit you between the eyes, but he is dead on accurate.

 

[pbagley]

Welcome Harry. Well written, and sometimes accurate. I like to visit the local shops, listen and often keep quiet. Some of the sales help are great, a few have the attitude, and occasionally they are ignorant. Many examples in just the past few months - like one every visit. I opened my big mouth when a customer was getting incorrect info, and as we left the shop my wife said I should probably get a job in firearms retail after I retire. You tend to pick up some knowledge over the years, and I'm happy to share. At the range I've been known coach people, helping them learn to be better shooters, knowing they would be competing against me in a future match. In the teaching there is learning.

Back to your original point - People are generally going to make mistakes, every day. And some are not well wired to interface with the public. If you hate dealing with the public, you may want to leave your retail job and find something else. Be kind, be honest. Your writing will help some do better in the future. Your work is appreciated.

 

[ezkl2230]

Welcome aboard!

I would echo what wolf_fire had to say, and add this: those 10% are the reason we have the ignore list. While the majority of folks with whom I have dealt on this forum are decent, knowledgeable people, you will very quickly find that there are a few who richly belong on that list. And a word of advice: things DO get a little boistrous here from time to time, and occasionally there are some pretty strong disagreements. Like any community, we all hold strong beliefs. But most of the time we can still learn from our disagreements, and most of the folks here can voice their disagreements without taking personal shots at those with whom they disagree (remember the 10%? Personal shots seem to come easily for many of them.).

Enjoy your time here!

 

[TrapperBob]

Just a quick note here...

My guns are not nor have they been purchased for "sport" or "hobby".
My guns have been acquired for the express purpose of personal defense.
My guns are lethal killing machines, perfected over generations for just that one task... To kill.
I have a tremendous aversion to the term "sporting guns".
Guns have been developed to punch holes in people, not paper and I think it is a great disservice to marginalize their actual function.
There has been a move towards referring to weapons as "sporting arms" so that we can make them sound "more respectable" to the sheeple.
So I say that I own weapons.
Weapons designed through years of testing and research.
Perfected and fine tuned for their original purpose.
To punch holes into anyone who would attempt to deprive me or mine of my pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

On the other side, until very recently, my guns have ONLY been acquired for sport or hobby. I had guns for 40 years before I bought one for defense against humans. So my weapons ARE overwhelmingly "sporting arms'. I did (and do) have a trail gun, but that was (and still is primarily) for defense against 4 legged critters. And guns have been developed for punching holes in animals for food, not just people.

I like shooting as a hobby. I love hunting as a hobby. But the honest truth is that if, for some off-the-wall reason, I could never hunt again I would probably get rid of ALL my guns, except the Winchester 1894. (I just couldn't part with the Winchester.) For just shooting holes in paper my airsoft guns would be fine, given the price of ammo. If I didn't own any guns for hunting, I doubt I'd keep one specifically for self defense.

I've owned lots of guns, but only 2 for 'self defense', both small semi auto pistols I currently have for concealed carry. When I think of 'guns', I think of hunting first, then general shooting, and only last as self defense.

Personally, I think of the attitude you express as the 'gun attitude'. You're welcome to it of course, but I find it a bit tiresome myself. In general I don't associate with what I would say are 'gun people', I associate with 'hunters'.

People should be able to carry a weapon for self defense. I do. But it just isn't, to me, the primary reason I have guns. That is a different attitude toward guns than mine, and of the gun owners I have as friends.

 

[uncle fester]

I've seen the same attitude on many occasions, more often than not at a retail counter. I usually try to ignore those citizens and will gladly take my money elsewhere if I encounter one over a gun counter. I call 'em "drugstore gunfighters".

I wonder how many people have been turned off of owning/shooting guns because they ran into one of those types early in their experience. I wonder how many vote anti gun just because of meeting up with one of those charming ambassadors of the 'sport' and thinking we're all like that.

As to whether guns are made for killing men, food or targets, the answer is yes.

A gun is a tool. Use it for whatever purpose you desire. You can use a shotgun to breach locks, kill a dove, kill a deer, smash clays, defend yourself... Sure, some models of guns were designed to work better in a specific role but they still have other uses.

Any tool is limited only by the imagination of the user (taking Murphy's law and Darwinism into account). Have you never used a butcher knife to spread butter? Opened an old style oil can with a screwdriver?

 

[CharlesMorrison]

On the other side, until very recently, my guns have ONLY been acquired for sport or hobby. I had guns for 40 years before I bought one for defense against humans. So my weapons ARE overwhelmingly "sporting arms'. I did (and do) have a trail gun, but that was (and still is primarily) for defense against 4 legged critters. And guns have been developed for punching holes in animals for food, not just people.

I like shooting as a hobby. I love hunting as a hobby. But the honest truth is that if, for some off-the-wall reason, I could never hunt again I would probably get rid of ALL my guns, except the Winchester 1894. (I just couldn't part with the Winchester.) For just shooting holes in paper my airsoft guns would be fine, given the price of ammo. If I didn't own any guns for hunting, I doubt I'd keep one specifically for self defense.

I've owned lots of guns, but only 2 for 'self defense', both small semi auto pistols I currently have for concealed carry. When I think of 'guns', I think of hunting first, then general shooting, and only last as self defense.

Personally, I think of the attitude you express as the 'gun attitude'. You're welcome to it of course, but I find it a bit tiresome myself. In general I don't associate with what I would say are 'gun people', I associate with 'hunters'.

People should be able to carry a weapon for self defense. I do. But it just isn't, to me, the primary reason I have guns. That is a different attitude toward guns than mine, and of the gun owners I have as friends.

No offense intended but if the above post is all you "gleaned" from my own post, I think you missed my point.
Guns are weapons, period.
Designed to destroy flesh and bone.
While I do understand that people use weapons for hunting and plinking, you do have to admit that was a secondary need (desire?).
I do not agree with the group of weapon owners who attempt to appease the sheep by claiming a weapon is a "sporting arm".
A weapon is a weapon, period.
How you choose to employ said weapon is your discretion.
Just please don't pretend that weapons, (handguns, long guns), are something less than what they are, lethal..


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Harry, I know exactly what your talking about with certain people and there attitudes, this is why I'm particular on who I buy guns from, also if there is a problem with one it gets returned/exchanged, I try not to ask nobody for nothing, mostly get on the internet, get whatever info I can and figure it out myself, the forums are a great source of info but don't take what you read at full value, as it is just another dudes opinion, and in reference to mr Morrison, of course guns are weapons that kill things, but so are knifes, and explosives, but they all do many other things other than kill, and what a man chooses to do with his guns is strictly up to him, or her, and shooting can and is a sport/hobby, just as knifes, and explosives, (Model Rocketry) (Anvil Shooting) and there is probably 20 other things that can kill that is also a source of entertainment, ...........you and your wife enjoy your hobby, always keep in mind they are weapons that can hurt you, learn to do whatever maintainance you can, find a good gunsmith for what you cannot, and screw the ***holes with the attitudes

 

[Steon]

Welcome to the Forum Harry.

As a couple others have said, we have a couple of 10%'ers here in the forum. Personally I haven't placed them on ignore because occasionally they say something that I do gain enlightenment from.

That said, my personal belief is that the ultimate purpose of a firearm is to kill. Whether it is for hunting, to kill an animal to put meat on the table, or for self defense, to kill your opponent, or for war, to kill your enemy, a firearm was designed to kill. One maintains proficiency by target practice. If one gains enjoyment from that target practice, great, but one should know that when push comes to shove, if they pull out their weapon in self-defense, then it is with the very real possibility of ending someones life.

I carry for self defense, not hunting... I am not saying that I am shooting with the express intent to kill... I will shoot to stop the threat, but it is with the knowledge that death is a very real possibility for my opponent, which since they are intent on doing me serious bodily injury wouldn't bother be.

 

[Steon]

No offense intended but if the above post is all you "gleaned" from my own post, I think you missed my point.
Guns are weapons, period.
Designed to destroy flesh and bone.
While I do understand that people use weapons for hunting and plinking, you do have to admit that was a secondary need (desire?).
I do not agree with the group of weapon owners who attempt to appease the sheep by claiming a weapon is a "sporting arm".
A weapon is a weapon, period.
How you choose to employ said weapon is your discretion.
Just please don't pretend that weapons, (handguns, long guns), are something less than what they are, lethal..


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

Weapons, in General, were first designed for HUNTING. Not for the use against their fellow man.

The use of the first Spear was for Hunting. The first Slung Spear was for Hunting. The first Bow and Arrow was used in both War and in Hunting, as was the first Fire Arms.... In the stories of the First American Explorers and explorers all over the world for that matter, Firearms are used for Hunting.

I do not discount that the purpose of weapons is to destroy flesh and blood. Nor do I discount that that they were greatly improved upon through their use in WAR against their fellow men. But that was not the first and only use of weapons.

In the Revolutionary War, most of the American soldiers were first and foremost, Hunters, that were called upon to use their weapons against their fellow men, who had never used their weapons against a man before. Should another Revolutionary War occur, as I've seen being proposed, it will most likely be once again, by Hunters and Target Plinkers, picking up those hunting rifles and target guns and saying 'Hell No! You can't have them!'

So do not judge them so harshly or take such a hard line that 'The only purpose' is war, death and destruction. The Historical Purpose of

A weapon is a weapon, period.

was for Hunting, with the first Neanderthal and Cro-Magnum Man, through the current HomoSapiens Man.

 

[r1derbike]

Self defense is my only interest in sidearms/longarms presently. My wife is also armed. I hunted small game as a kid, many years ago.

I hope I never have to use my guns in self defense, but have no hesitation about using them in that capacity.

My main goal is to stop a deadly threat against my family and I. If death occurs to the criminal(s) hellbent on killing or maiming us, then it is what it is. Certainly not the intent, and an unfortunate gamble the BG takes when choosing deadly crime as his lot in life.