Texas Man Refuses To Instruct Muslims in Gun Handling

Providence Ranch said:
Despite the legal battles he may face, this guy took a stand for his country and for his personal rights as a citizen and private business owner. The founders of the Constitution never intended for a free person to be forced into doing business with anyone by government edict. And that's the way it should remain. The point of this discussion is really not whether what he did was legal. It's whether or not it SHOULD be. This guy chose to keep his country safer by refusing to train the enemy. My hat is off to him, and my prayers are with him. I also pray that those of you who have heartache over his decision will wake up before its truly too late. God bless America!
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The gentleman who's the subject of this thread has come to the conclusion that all muslims are terrorists just because of their religion. That's about as un-American as you can get.
 
wooddoctor said:
Do and say what the Libtards do......I felt really really uncomfortable with his mannerism and I was looking out for the safety of others. He even called me an infidel. Would you be concerned if a Muslim called you an infidel?
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I wouldn't teach anybody who called me an "infidel". I also wouldn't automatically reject someone just becasue of their religious (or ethnic, political, racial, sexual, etc., etc.) background. They would have to do something like call me an infidel for me to deny them their wishes.
 
unclewayne17 said:
What if the people that trained the Muslims to fly had refused to teach them? There would be Thousands of people still alive and this would be a different place. They have the right to ask for instruction and he has the same right to just say NO.
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Maybe. And if nobody had taught Timothy McVeigh how to drive........and if nobody had let Bernie Madoff near Wall Street......

When you get your crystal ball up and running, let us know.
 
Well, this pot is certainly stirred. Unlike many Moslem countries the United States has freedom of religion. We also have freedom of speech. When I was teaching EMT's I had to evaluate whether or not a student was the type of person that should be allowed to be licensed. Now, I can't imagine that I would ever deny someone admission to a class because of their race or religion. But, with Moslems at war and committing acts of terrorism on every continent I can see how a weapons instructor that did not have the resources to do an in depth background check on every student might err on the side of security. This guy is not the only instructor out there and I would guess that a number of them are moslem so I doubt that he is effectively denying anyone training. I might also suggest that a precedent has already been set with heightened criteria for admittance into flight schools and they have been given access to Federal resources.
I am white. I live in an area where that is a minority. I have been on the dirty end of the stick of prejudice for most of my life. I choose to live where I do so I don't let it bother me. I also do not spend my money with someone that has expressed distain for me. Since, apparently, this guy lives in an area with few if any moslems the question of him affecting the ability of any moslem to obtain training seems moot. If I am correct it then becomes a question of freedom of speech. Were I a moslem you couldn't pay me to take his class. So, should a moslem from outside his area sign up for his class, just to prove a point, and gets rejected I see them as part of the problem.
This is an interesting and complicated issue. I have chosen my side. For those of you who differ in opinion I do understand and respect your choice. For most of us I think it comes down to how we weight the issues here. Some will be so emotionally charged that they will not see all the issues or they will give little weight to many of the arguments. I expect people like this on all sides of the issue. Thanks for sharing your opinions.
 
unclewayne17 said:
What if the people that trained the Muslims to fly had refused to teach them? There would be Thousands of people still alive and this would be a different place. They have the right to ask for instruction and he has the same right to just say NO.
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Do you think that if the US-based instructors had refused to teach them, they would have just given up and said "Oh well, there goes that plan"?
 
Caribou said:
Well, this pot is certainly stirred. Unlike many Moslem countries the United States has freedom of religion. We also have freedom of speech. When I was teaching EMT's I had to evaluate whether or not a student was the type of person that should be allowed to be licensed. Now, I can't imagine that I would ever deny someone admission to a class because of their race or religion. But, with Moslems at war and committing acts of terrorism on every continent I can see how a weapons instructor that did not have the resources to do an in depth background check on every student might err on the side of security. This guy is not the only instructor out there and I would guess that a number of them are moslem so I doubt that he is effectively denying anyone training. I might also suggest that a precedent has already been set with heightened criteria for admittance into flight schools and they have been given access to Federal resources.
I am white. I live in an area where that is a minority. I have been on the dirty end of the stick of prejudice for most of my life. I choose to live where I do so I don't let it bother me. I also do not spend my money with someone that has expressed distain for me. Since, apparently, this guy lives in an area with few if any moslems the question of him affecting the ability of any moslem to obtain training seems moot. If I am correct it then becomes a question of freedom of speech. Were I a moslem you couldn't pay me to take his class. So, should a moslem from outside his area sign up for his class, just to prove a point, and gets rejected I see them as part of the problem.
This is an interesting and complicated issue. I have chosen my side. For those of you who differ in opinion I do understand and respect your choice. For most of us I think it comes down to how we weight the issues here. Some will be so emotionally charged that they will not see all the issues or they will give little weight to many of the arguments. I expect people like this on all sides of the issue. Thanks for sharing your opinions.
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What's a "Moslem"?
 
Providence Ranch said:
Despite the legal battles he may face, this guy took a stand for his country and for his personal rights as a citizen and private business owner. The founders of the Constitution never intended for a free person to be forced into doing business with anyone by government edict. And that's the way it should remain. The point of this discussion is really not whether what he did was legal. It's whether or not it SHOULD be. This guy chose to keep his country safer by refusing to train the enemy. My hat is off to him, and my prayers are with him. I also pray that those of you who have heartache over his decision will wake up before its truly too late. God bless America!
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So going by your words all Muslims are the enemy.

You need to quit thinking that way. Here is some knowledge to help you out it is a quote from the The Art of War by Sun Tzu

So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.

If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.

If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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So if you are not getting what it is that I am trying to point out to you. You fall under the last two and neither of them are good.

So Muslims are not the enemy. The enemy is radical Muslims according to President Bush and V.P. D*cK Cheney.
 
Do some study of Islamic faith and the teachings of Muhammad before you just go along with the media characterization that only the extremist Muslims are to be feared. Study the faith! Read the Koran. Or even easier, pick up one or two of the DOZENS of books out there that will teach you what Islam is really all about. Then you will see that no one who claims the Islamic faith can truly be of peace.

Un-American, B2Tall? We will see. For your loved ones' sakes, open up your eyes while you still have the chance.
 
If they were Talaban Muslim's I agree but American Muslim's Who is next? Remember during WWWII we put all Japanese Americans in Prison Camps. Just something to think about.
 
Providence Ranch said:
Do some study of Islamic faith and the teachings of Muhammad before you just go along with the media characterization that only the extremist Muslims are to be feared. Study the faith! Read the Koran. Or even easier, pick up one or two of the DOZENS of books out there that will teach you what Islam is really all about. Then you will see that no one who claims the Islamic faith can truly be of peace.

Un-American, B2Tall? We will see. For your loved ones' sakes, open up your eyes while you still have the chance.
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That's so bigoted, rascist, and hysterical (not the funny ha-ha kind) that, beyond this, I'm not even going to comment on it.
 
rifleshooter474:241425 said:
If they were Talaban Muslim's I agree but American Muslim's Who is next? Remember during WWWII we put all Japanese Americans in Prison Camps. Just something to think about.
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Apples and oranges. Being Japanese is not a faith system. It is a culture and a geographic location, comprised of people of many different beliefs and values. Being Muslim is a belief system, with clearly defined tenets that are accepted universally by anyone who accepts the faith. What happened in WWII was an atrocity because we as a nation assumed that all Japanese citizens held the same belief system simply due to their nationality. You must learn to separate the two in order to identify the true enemy.
 
@B2Tall:

So you ran out of logical arguments, did you? Oh, no wait...all YOU had was quotes from Hollywood's ultra-enlightened like Chris Rock. Hmmm. Maybe you'll take this opportunity to go do some actual research, and come back with some well-thought out arguments. Or maybe not. I won't hold my breath.
 
Providence Ranch said:
@B2Tall:

So you ran out of logical arguments, did you? Oh, no wait...all YOU had was quotes from Hollywood's ultra-enlightened like Chris Rock. Hmmm. Maybe you'll take this opportunity to go do some actual research, and come back with some well-thought out arguments. Or maybe not. I won't hold my breath.
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Look above you, Mr. Ranch. See those strings?? You're a puppet and Islamic radicals are pulling the strings. You, and other bigots like you, are playing right into the hands of the radicals. They want to see reactions like yours! Why? Because every instance of anti-islamic discrimination (or violence, etc.) only serves to reinforce what the radicals are preaching - that the West, America in particular, hates Islam and it's practitioners. It's their rallying cry and you're giving it weight. The more anti-islamic rhetoric and ignorance that's spewed by people like you, the more moderate muslims are pushed towards the radicals.

And that's what the radical Islamic fascists want. Good job.
 
wooddoctor said:
Do and say what the Libtards do......I felt really really uncomfortable with his mannerism and I was looking out for the safety of others. He even called me an infidel. Would you be concerned if a Muslim called you an infidel?
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I would ask that person to define "infidel" as they know it. Then probably educate that person on the word. If they persisted in their wrong idea of what it means, then that points to them being a "extremist" Moslim/Muslim. A Muslim, Jew, or Christian who believes in one God, cannot be an infidel. Use of the word on one who believes is an offense under Muslim law. Otherwise the person would be taught.
 
I agree that a business owner has a right to assert his opinion through action. However, a government-issued instructor permit requires him to adhere to regulations & laws that apply to the state. His refusal to train people that he feels are threats will not make a big difference in defending our populace, but that may not be his sole point. It looks like his choice is based on his heart-felt principles. I don't agree with his choice though as although, like him, I would not train someone I felt was a threat to our citizenry, I would not base that determination on merely a perceived religion or how they may have voted. I would hope to be more practical about it. There have been violent perpetrators who were neither Muslim nor liberal - many of them have just been plain crazy. Let's not forget there are STILL on many jurisdictional books unconstitutional ordinances that were overtly designed to prevent former slaves from owning firearms because of a perceived threat. Many slaves, former-slaves & their descendants have gone on to fight to defend this country in numerous wars since then. I'm thankful for them & proud they protect me & this businessman's right to assert his opinions. His only issue is whether he violated discrimination laws that apply to state-approved firearms instructors.
 
Ed Hurtley said:
While it's his business, there are federal anti-discrimination laws that prohibit business discrimination based on race, religion, etc. He's free to discriminate based on political affiliation, but he CANNOT discriminate based on religion.
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Ed, I think, for many Muslims, Islam IS a political affiliation.
 
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