TERRIBLE decision pending for me...

[nraynes]

Here is the sad but true thing.

You should not carry. You should talk
about getting an armed guard for this time. Or talk about having a LEO there for her protection, either way go to your higher up, tell them you do not feel safe, and wish to have one of these there. Also get as many of your coworkers as you can to go with you have them say they do not feel safe.

 

[boatme98]

As XJ said, demand armed protection. The threat is documented. Unfortunatly, the police can do nothing here, the employer however is responsible for ensuring saftey in the workplace. If they are unwilling to provide, perhaps you could involve local press (make the morons work for you) and bandy about the idea of a very public "sick out" until the situation is resolved.
As for carrying at work, it's federal and they say no, so you're kind of stuck there as others have noted.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[eXGee11]

Have you thought about a taser or pepper spray solution? I understand that either method is not a sure bet however it could be the compromise between safety and felony conviction. Just putting that out there. Im still in the process of getting my ccw so I cannot relate to your confidence at hiding your weapon

With that said anyone with common sense would understand If you chose to prioritize your safety over employment. (Too bad your employer has no common sense)

 

[BC1]

Once had to deal with an abusive gorilla beating his girfriend (my employe). She was originally from Tuscon an wanted to get away. We helped her relocate back home. I sent her to Tuscon to find another job and gave her a rave review to her potential employer. She bolted with no notice to the gorilla. I once had to stop him from hitting her in the parking lot so this guy was of concern.

My company policy restricted firearms in the building but not in the car. I did not want to lose a great position over a rule violation yet this guy concerned me. I worried he would blame me for helping her get away. We decided to permanently "lock-down" the office building using card access to enter.

As Abraham Lincol once said,

"I long ago made up my mind that if anybody wants to kill me, he will do it. If I wore a shirt of mail and kept myself surrounded by a bodyguard, it would be all the same. There are a thousand ways of getting at a man if it is desirable that he should be killed. Besides, in this case, it seems to me, the man who would come after me would be just as objectionable to my enemies -- if I have any."

Then again, I believe in the boy scout motto of being prepared. I would not risk your job over a policy violation. I would look for other tools such as deterrence and avoidance. Stay alert (orange mode), carry a decent knife, Locate anything that can be used as an improvised weapon, know everything and everyone around you and stay vigilant. He probably can't gain access into the builing so he'll opt to get her outside. Keep the gun in the car.

Good luck. Loonies are unpredictable.

 

[apguns]

You have to protect yourself

 

[Grognard Gunny]

I have a problem with your use of "going postal" nut case to describe a domestic shooting spree / spree killing. The term "going postal" has only been used to describe the actions of someone who was employed by the USPS. I have yet to find a news report that used the term "going postal" to describe a work place shooting or any other shooting. So while people misuse the term "going postal" to describe becoming angry to the point of wanting to shoot someone, That is not the definition of it, if it was then there would be news reports using it to describe the shooter. All the news reports I found with the term "going postal" had to do with an employee or ex-employee of the USPS who did a work place shooting.

Sorry you "have a problem" with my literary lisence. For a number of years now, the term "going postal" has been used here and there as a generic frame of reference for someone ticked off enough to "take it out" on anyone nearby when they finally "snap".

Since you seem to be in a "language specific" mode..... "going postal" should, by rights, refer to a specific method of mailing something out. But I won't belabor the point.

I will use the term as I see fit. I will take note of your "problem" with it. Then advise you to "get over it"! :sarcastic:

GG

 

[R_ACE1]

Agreed! If you can get away with it, carry it!
BUT, if you don't feel that's not a possibility why not carry a knife, or mace?
Is this a threat that happens often? Can you show proof of this? Would it be possible if you show your supervisors proof they might help you out with protection?

 

[localgirl]

Sorry you "have a problem" with my literary lisence. For a number of years now, the term "going postal" has been used here and there as a generic frame of reference for someone ticked off enough to "take it out" on anyone nearby when they finally "snap".

Since you seem to be in a "language specific" mode..... "going postal" should, by rights, refer to a specific method of mailing something out. But I won't belabor the point.

I will use the term as I see fit. I will take note of your "problem" with it. Then advise you to "get over it"! :sarcastic:

GG

Gunny, no! He might get all Texas Tower on you!

 

[Derby]

The ONLY potential "out" I have is that we work in a rented building so the property itself is NOT actual state property; it's privately owned. That might only save me some of the REAL bad consequences of carrying in a government office but I'd still likely lose my job.

I believe that any property rented or leased by the government is considered government property, especially in reference to carry laws.

I have a problem with your use of "going postal" nut case to describe a domestic shooting spree / spree killing. The term "going postal" has only been used to describe the actions of someone who was employed by the USPS. I have yet to find a news report that used the term "going postal" to describe a work place shooting or any other shooting. So while people misuse the term "going postal" to describe becoming angry to the point of wanting to shoot someone, That is not the definition of it, if it was then there would be news reports using it to describe the shooter. All the news reports I found with the term "going postal" had to do with an employee or ex-employee of the USPS who did a work place shooting.

The Urban Dictionary says about the phrase: "originally coined from a series of real life shootings in the postal service, it now usually means that someone is about to go nuts or off the deep end. the reason for going postal is usually trivial. also, means person on psychiatric meds that is off their pills."

 

[Nightmare45]

Build a case now, involve local papers and anyone else over portection issue, get co-workers to join in. If this "nut-case" does show up with no protection being available for you or your co-workers remember how this worked, swat on outside armed to the teeth while you and your co-workers are being killed, thay cannot protect you, I would intend on going home to my wife and kids, have your employer send you a letter/notice of how they intend to protect you and your co-workers. I believe in my absolute right to protect myself and would do so by whatever means are available, get the individual fired that is causing the problem, but protect yourself.

 

[localgirl]

Build a case now, involve local papers and anyone else over portection issue, get co-workers to join in. If this "nut-case" does show up with no protection being available for you or your co-workers remember how this worked, swat on outside armed to the teeth while you and your co-workers are being killed, thay cannot protect you, I would intend on going home to my wife and kids, have your employer send you a letter/notice of how they intend to protect you and your co-workers. I believe in my absolute right to protect myself and would do so by whatever means are available, get the individual fired that is causing the problem, but protect yourself.

Actually, getting the media involved is not a bad idea. As a former journalist, I can tell you that I would have jumped on this story. Getting it all out there in print could accomplish two things: 1. It could force your employers to get off their butts and do something, and 2. It could really help you out if you DID end up being in a violent situation and had to diffuse it. If you were facing consequences or termination, your boss would be pretty hard-pressed to follow through with all eyes in the community on him/her.

 

[BC1]

I have a problem with your use of "going postal" nut case to describe a domestic shooting spree / spree killing. The term "going postal" has only been used to describe the actions of someone who was employed by the USPS. I have yet to find a news report that used the term "going postal" to describe a work place shooting or any other shooting. So while people misuse the term "going postal" to describe becoming angry to the point of wanting to shoot someone, That is not the definition of it, if it was then there would be news reports using it to describe the shooter. All the news reports I found with the term "going postal" had to do with an employee or ex-employee of the USPS who did a work place shooting.

I recently saw a TV show titled "Going Postal, Violence In The Work Place." But I think there were only 2 cass involving USPS. The rest were everything from a financial office to a factory.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Gunny, no! He might get all Texas Tower on you!

Wouldn't be the first time I would have been ambushed. Been there. Done that.

GG

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

A few update notes, after discussing whether or not I should carry and endangering whether or not I could do so and "get away with it" I decided to DEFINITELY not carry for at least a few days. During this time I've been waiting to see if either of those that know I can carry have been "watcing" to see if I am or not. I have seen zero sign of this and haven't seen the higher level supervisor (in person) that was opposed to it since the meeting 2 days ago.

Second, I have been researching Iowa and Federal law to see if I could/would get in any trouble beyond loss of job. Federal law as I have found it does specify that you can not carry in a Federal facility. I am not a federal employee and I do not work in a Federal facility (I don't have a clearance to lose to reference one comment). I don't think that with the office I am in and the branch of state government I work for that they could successfully make the case that I carried in a Federal facility (doesn't mean they wouldn't try). Checking state law, I can not carry in government buildings "on the Capitol Complex," I am a 2 hour drive away from the Capitol Complex so they can't say I did that either. There are no specific rules for offices/buildings other than the Capital Complex itself; if they equated state and federal offices why would Iowa law specify the Capital Complex. All that being the case I don't think anything would happen to me other than endangering my employment.

A more positive development has occurred since this all started. The person in danger has e-mailed the entire office with the details and an old picture of the person posing the threat. There were very few people notified of details initially which didn't make me feel comfortable. As we do not have public access (card access only) and now that everyone knows who to look out for it is much less likely that he will be let in inadvertently (still not impossible though). Notifying more people will make it more likely for us to obtain armed security personnell but that discussion has not been started as of yet.

Due to the more positive developments and "cooling off" a bit I am definitely leaning toward not starting to carry at work after reviewing the advice of those on here and thinking it through myself. I will likely talk to one of our union reps first about obtaining armed security to see what they say, if we have them behind us it will make it a lot easier for it to happen. I am VERY strongly considering taking a weapon other than my sidearm. My only concern there is I can not afford to go out and buy a taser right now and I'm not trained enough with a knife to feel that I can effectively use that to defend myself or anyone else. Having anything would still be better than nothing though. I'll keep you all posted on where things stand.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

PS - the poor coworker that had to reveal this portion of her personal life to about 80 people that didn't know previously is embarassed enough; I don't want to get media involved at this stage. Believe you me though, if I do something/anything to defend myself and my co-workers and end up in hot water for it there WILL be media involved and likely a 2A attorney if necessary.

 

[darknetone]

more comments

It sounds like things are better now that more folks know the lay of the land so to speak. I am glad to hear that.

Just an FYI a building, floor or office can be declaired state or federal space, even if it is just leased. If you really want to know about your space, talk to your facilities coordinator.

Be safe and best of luck!

PS - for the going postal guy - going postal is slang for someone who is going to shoot up an office, person or the like, it was derrived from a postal incident but rarely refers back to anytging actually postal. It commonly, and i do mean very commonly used. I have heard it used across several states i have heard the term used on tv and even in England. I thought every ine knew the expression, hehehe guess not.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

If I was the one being stalked, I'd be wearing soft body armor (no permit needed yet for Kevlar), and I would be armed.

You have to make your own choice, and you've already talked too much for our own good. I've been carrying concealed, mostly in deep concealment (as opposed to quickest access) for 36 years. "Concealed" means just that; you don't tell ANYONE.

Yes, a government employer, and many other employers, will definitely fire you for saving lives. They'd much rather everyone in the office died horribly, than that an employee was armed. That's the reality of it.

As to it being better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6, I will never (especially on a public forum) recommend that rules be broken. However, I will point out the every man or woman makes his/her own decisions. And it IS a fact that YOU are responsible for your own protection, no one else (much case law, all the way to SCOTUS).

 

[nogods]

So what if your co-worker confides in you that she is scared of her ex and because of that she just bought a handgun and intends to stat shooting if she sees him in the office?

Feel safer?

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

That last post is somewhat humerous after what just happened today.

I was minding my own business (posting this from work) when I hear the distinctive sound of a taser echo over the tops of the cubicles; someone else immediately said "be careful with that thing" in a half laughing voice. Sounds like the supervisor that is being threatened now has a taser of her own that she is bringing in to the office. This situation is improving on a regular basis; it also sounds like the buildling we work in (rent from) has hired an additional security guard part time and he was just in here talking to someone. The guards around here aren't armed (with firearms at least) but that's still of limited help. Until I heard they hired someone else I didn't have much confidence in them at all when this first arose.

Overall I'm feeling better about the whole thing and still no sign of anyone checking me out to see if I'm armed. I'm at a point now where if I decide to carry I think I could get away with it as long as I keep it concealed. My only pistol isn't small (Ruger SR9 full size) but I still do an decent job concealing it. Now that I'm coming to that point I'm starting to feel like I don't need to take the risk any more either. Overall the situation is quieting down although I have to say even that being the case the next flare of activity will be when/if this guy ever does show up.

 

[Caribou]

You can't be there 24/7 to protect your friend but she can be. Quietly, take her to the range, show her how to get a concealed carry permit, and help her find appropriate shooting classes.