Telescoping steel baton


Dragonbreath

New member
A telescoping steel baton makes an excellent backup and alternative weapon to a pistol. A firearm is a "distance" weapon; it's most effective when you're out of arm's reach. The best way to make a firearm less effective is to close in to arm's reach distance, then knock it out of the way and use a knife or baton. A knife is an excellent "close in" weapon, and the way to negate it is to get beyond its range. A 26" baton has greater range than a knife, and can be just as effective or more so. If you're close enough, you can knock down weapons, break bones, use Hanbo (cane) type strikes, and use the baton to assist in joint locks. When closed, you can use the baton as a heavy "hand load" for punching, or as a Yawara or Kubotan stick. Also, if you actually have to use a weapon, you are almost certain to be in court later, and using a baton will create as assumption that you DIDN'T intend to kill (as versus a gun or a knife) - you're less likely to wind up getting sued and having to pay someone else for the rest of your life. Also, slamming out a steel baton and getting into ready position (held vertically next to your collarbone, ready to strike) lets any attacker know that he'd be smart to keep walking. Brandish a gun or knife like that, and you're likely going to jail. They're fairly concealable, but make sure your holster allows you to draw quickly and cleanly. Like every weapon, training is MANDATORY. There are some good videos on YouTube for basic moves. Hang a rug or blanket over a clothesline, or make a scarecrow, and practice drawing and striking.
 

chiefpropellerhead

Chiefpropellerhead
In SC the ONLY weapon that you can get a permit to conceal is a Firearm. I do not understand how I can have a permit to carry a firearm which is lethal but I can not carry a non lethal weapon. Are they worried that I would be more likely to use a non lethal weapon more often? Would they rather that I used lethal force as my first option? From what I hear, everything that happens in a violent situation where you are forced to use deadly force is examined under a microscope. Also, it is ironic that my Concealable Weapons permit says WEAPONS not weapon. That would indicate to me that I should be able to carry multiple weapons.
 

Saltcreek

New member
I carried and used a nightstick and ASP for 25 years on the job. In Ohio you will quickly go to jail for having a collapsible baton. They classed in the same catagory as brass knuckles and nun-chucks. BAD advise. I don't know of any CCW permit anywhere that allows you to carry other such "backup" weapons.
This sounds like advise from an armchair warrior who has made several bad "assumptions". My comments are not assumption because I have been to court many times where there are no assumption, only case law. "YouTube" is not accepted training,and often has bad advise. Where is your certified training? Also, once you engage in the hand to hand combat as you described, you are no longer defending yourself, but engaging in "Mutual Combat" and you will go to jail. Once you engage in doing "joint locks" you are no longer defending, or in fear of your safety under the law. Ohio law for instance, does not permit a civilian to use physical force to apprehend someone, even in a felony. A baton under Ohio law is defined as a "deadly weapon", so your excuse of less lethal force is mute. Virtually every one of your "assumpsions" has already been debunked in actual case law. I suggest studying actual law before guessing. Not trying to be mean, but street lawyer advice will get someone hurt or arrested. The TV show T.J. Hooker was just Hollywood.
 

Bighouse Doc

New member
We carry guns to protect ourselves.

We aren't a bunch of ninjas seeking quiet assassination weapons. We aren't police officers needing to use measured force to apprehend a villain or protect property, or control a riot, etc.

We AVOID combat unless forced upon us.

If my handgun isn't the proper weapon for the situation, I am getting out of there quick!

-Doc
 

Purple

New member
If I feel the need to defend myself, I'm not going to close the distance between myself and the offender and use a baton. I'm not going to meet a firearm threat with an impact weapon. A firearm is a force leveler, a baton is force escalator that law enforcement personnel or obligated to deploy in between fists and firearms. I am not compelled, obligated or legally bound to use an impact weapon. I am compelled, obligated and legally protected to use a firearm to defend a life.
 

cawpin

New member
Also, once you engage in the hand to hand combat as you described, you are no longer defending yourself, but engaging in "Mutual Combat" and you will go to jail.

This is the only thing you said that I don't agree with, and think is probably incorrect. You don't go from defending yourself to mutual combat simply because you actually had to defend yourself. It is still self defense. If that were the case you'd be arrested under the same statute if you shot a guy that also had a gun. Mutual combat is a situation where two people somewhat plan to go fight or are arguing beforehand and it leads to a fight.

Also, his point is "moot", not "mute."

Otherwise, your points are useful. It does make no sense that you can carry a firearm but a fancy "stick" is still considered illegal. I don't think it is illegal in Arizona; I'll have to check.
 

cia1984

New member
@saltcreek is spot-on! Even if legal to own and carry in your particular jurisdiction, your role as a willing combatant really complicates things if you have to back-up to your handgun. I carry pepper as my first step, if the situation allows. Otherwise my carry gun is used. I don't look for trouble, and practice respect and courtesy to all. I've watched really good LEOs do the same.
 

Dragonbreath

New member
FYI, folks, my original post is accurate for Florida, where I reside. Other states = other laws. Personally, I don't want to live in a state that won't allow me to defend myself with whatever level of force is appropriate to the situation. All governments that try to make us criminals for what we own instead of what we DO, need to have their laws replaced, along with the politicians who made them!
 

Hamilton Felix

New member
Laws against weapons are there to benefit the ruling class, criminals (often those two are the same), and Police. Yep, it's stupid that I wear my .45 legally but two sticks tied together (nunchucks) is an illegal weapon. I'm still trying to sort out the telescoping baton legality here in Washington, but my ex-cop wife likes 'em and has one in her car.

Frankly, I think you're in more trouble if you cracked his wrist with a baton (a weapon) than if you just caved in his skull with a Maglite (not a weapon, and something you might carry at night).

I have enough gray in my whiskers that it won't raise eyebrows for me to use a cane. The Cold Steel City Stick is elegant -- I just wish I could find a plain STAINLESS headed model now - my youngest kid beat the hell out of my stainless skull headed cane on a big rock, and Cold Steel seems to have switched to a plain aluminum head that's not nearly as good.

I've generally been satisfied to carry my 1911. To me, the Al Mar SERE2000 I wear is a much-used everyday tool, not a weapon. I suppose some sort of less than lethal weapon might not be a bad idea. Perhaps pepper spray or a stun-flashlight.
 

davidchin

New member
A cane at least looks like its primary purpose is for something other than hurting someone. I tend to prefer a slightly longer walking stick (like a short pole). It makes it look like you're just out for a hike. Just make sure it's not too long if you happen to live in a city where you might accidently hit the wall if you're needing to swing it around in an alley-type location.
 

Hoganbeg

Member
In my opinion a cane is the best all-around stick tool. Low profile, versatile, elegant, and it can be devastatingly effective with proper training.
 

agrippakc

New member
I have such a thing, an asp, from a previous life. It is illegal in kansas to carry one. My ccw only applies to handguns. There is no limit to how many or what size however :)
 

trailboss

Gunsmith
Ky has a deadly weapons permit, If i can buy it I can carry it. (so said the instructor) including brass knuckles, switch blade, samurai sword, bat, collapsible baton, etc......

Personally, I would go for a cane, or the kimber guardian angel.
 

agrippakc

New member
I have a disability and I sometimes have to carry a cane. Before my CCW permit I would practice fighting with my cane because it's what I know I would have on me and a guy with a limp and a cane makes a tasty target.
 

hunterws

New member
In Wisconsin we finally got approval to defend ourselves, and I find this to be a great option. Not every situation calls for even drawing a pistol, yet you feel uncomfortable.

I was shopping for these recently, be sure to get the one that's closer to 100 bucks, the others are toys that will fail you and bend. Also, when retracting them, just turn the pieces, don't jam it on the ground.
 

LGH

New member
I carried and used a nightstick and ASP for 25 years on the job. In Ohio you will quickly go to jail for having a collapsible baton. They classed in the same catagory as brass knuckles and nun-chucks. BAD advise. I don't know of any CCW permit anywhere that allows you to carry other such "backup" weapons.
This sounds like advise from an armchair warrior who has made several bad "assumptions". My comments are not assumption because I have been to court many times where there are no assumption, only case law. "YouTube" is not accepted training,and often has bad advise. Where is your certified training? Also, once you engage in the hand to hand combat as you described, you are no longer defending yourself, but engaging in "Mutual Combat" and you will go to jail. Once you engage in doing "joint locks" you are no longer defending, or in fear of your safety under the law. Ohio law for instance, does not permit a civilian to use physical force to apprehend someone, even in a felony. A baton under Ohio law is defined as a "deadly weapon", so your excuse of less lethal force is mute. Virtually every one of your "assumpsions" has already been debunked in actual case law. I suggest studying actual law before guessing. Not trying to be mean, but street lawyer advice will get someone hurt or arrested. The TV show T.J. Hooker was just Hollywood.

A baton is not against the law in the state of Ohio. It is not listed on the list and does not fit into the similar weapons.

ORC 2923.20 Manufacture, possess for sale, sell, or furnish to any person other than a law enforcement agency for authorized use in police work, any brass knuckles, cestus, billy, blackjack, sandbag, switchblade knife, springblade knife, gravity knife, or similar weapon;
 

tpd223

New member
Seriously?

I'm a career cop and an Instructor-Trainer for Monadnock's baton systems and I don't carry one off duty. I would strongly advise that folks pass on this advice.
 

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