Suicide in the military - Average of 22 per day.
- Thread starter Ringo
- Start date
Peggy Reist
New member
That's beyond just sad, it's a tragedy. So many more than are actually killed there. I don't want to minimize anything they've been through, I know it must be horrible, but I wonder if there isn't some catalyst to cause this many suicides. The majority of people have a natural survival instinct. Has it been removed somehow, brainwashed out of them? Were there this many suicides after the Viet Nam war? I know statistics probably weren't as complete then, but I don't remember hearing of many. I know many more people who served in that war than in the Gulf, but bad as it was, none of the ones I know were suicidal when they came home. What's different now?
Peggy, I have a good friend that works for TAPS that tells me the number of suicides among Vietnam veterans is three times the number of soldiers that were killed in combat. My friends husband was a West Point graduate and an active duty helicopter pilot that took his own life two years ago last week. We glorify and glamorize war but the reality is that it runs against the grain of our souls and when our young men and women see the true horrors of war, they are overwhelmed.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
If mankind's sin nature is to be understood, war does not "run against the grain of our souls", quite to the contrary, that's why wars have been fought since the beginning of time and will continue until the return of Christ. I wonder if our enemies are "overwhelmed" and suffer the same emotional trauma, or is this weakness and instability just another consequence of decades of Liberal brainwashing, "sissifying" education & indoctrination of America.
I don't know let me ask the Japanese guy sitting next to me at the bar and see if it's an issue in his country.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
Ringo, with respects... this statement is full of horsesh!t. To answer your question, yes. Even our enemies suffer the trauma of warfare, regardless of how tough, composed, spiritual or religious they may or may not be. I don't recall you ever saying you were a combat veteran, if you are than I apologize in advance but, unless you have been exposed to the horrors of armed conflict... you should in the future refrain from making such statements inciting that the suffering incurred by today's veterans is due to some indoctrinated weakness of the mind, body and soul. I respect you for who you are and what I know of you through our exchanges on this forum but, I take offense to what you have said. I assure you, the painful memories I have are in no way related to any sort of weakness I have internally. Quite the opposite, actually. Many are haunted by the viciousness they are capable of and the results thereof.
Please Ringo, don't make me change my opinion of you because of a possible lapse in your judgement on the subject being discussed.
How do you know our enemies suffer the same thing? Some of our enemies are indoctrinated from youth on killing infidels and don't seem traumatized.
Why were veterans from WWI, WWII and Korea not haunted so that they felt the need to take their own lives?
Ours is an all volunteer military and since 2001 those choosing to enlist in the ground forces understood they would probably see combat.
Not trying to be a wiseacre but what is the difference between the gulf vets and those of earlier wars?
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
My responses in bold-n-blue...
Without intending to sound like an @sshole, I think you need to take some time to research the subjects of PTSD, Moral Injury, treatment history and then understand that there is no single way to be effected by combat... every person views what happened differently and each individual may or may not suffer in the same ways. Some of you guys implying that today's crop of veterans are weaker and that is why there are so many suicides is as heartbreaking as it is infuriating.
Without intending to sound like an @sshole, I think you need to take some time to research the subjects of PTSD, Moral Injury, treatment history and then understand that there is no single way to be effected by combat... every person views what happened differently and each individual may or may not suffer in the same ways. Some of you guys implying that today's crop of veterans are weaker and that is why there are so many suicides is as heartbreaking as it is infuriating.
Please, no one take any offense. What I have is really just a question along with my opinion. I knew men that served in WW2. My dad and lots of uncles. I heard a few stories of some of what they went through. They saw horrible things. They did horrible things, however, none of them commited suicide. They only did what they had to do, mostly for their buddies beside them, and were given the lattitude to do so. It was expected of them. Now we have ROE (Rules of Engagement) that tell a soldier that even if he may be watching his buddies being slaughtered, he must follow orders as to who he can shoot and who he can't. Can you imagine what it would do to a person to watch their friends being killed and afraid to shoot? ROE was first started in Vietnam, although, I don't believe that it was strongly enforced. In our recent wars, it has become problematic for our soldiers as it severely inhibits their ability to do what we ask of them. ROE is very much enforced now. Military personnel risk life in prison because of them.
Maybe I'm way off base here. I have no actual combat experience, however, I did serve on a USN tin can for four years playing games with the Russians during the Cold War and I know what my shipmates meant to me. I could be entirely wrong, but I've always wondered this ROE thing and what it does to our military.
Maybe I'm way off base here. I have no actual combat experience, however, I did serve on a USN tin can for four years playing games with the Russians during the Cold War and I know what my shipmates meant to me. I could be entirely wrong, but I've always wondered this ROE thing and what it does to our military.
Actually, I think you have probably nailed exactly a big part of the problem.
Peggy Reist
New member
OK, I can understand the suicides of those who have been in combat, but how do you explain the other half? That is WAY out of proportion with the general population.
SR9
New member
I have a grandson that is ex-military with PTSD. He goes to the VA and is prescribed medicine to help. The problem is he takes them for a while and them he says he feels like a "zombie" and quits taking them. This leads to anger issues. These veterans need to work with their VA doctors and RNPs to get their meds regulated to their own situation. I, being a veteran, that uses the VA myself, know that anytime you call the VA you get a recorded message that ask questions to direct you to the care you need. One of the questions is always, "are you feeling suicidal"? Help is out there.
mappow
New member
I think you explained some it but not all it. Some of we'll never know, why some people do things is and has been always a mystery. I quit trying to figure it out because it was making me crazy. What I do know is that there are people in the service that really shouldn't be there. Boot camp no longer culls out the psychos but coddles and enables those that do not have the mind set or fortitude to commit to DISCIPLINE. Some of these people never really had any discipline. The pressure of being told what to do, when to do it and restrict the bemoaning to the contrary is completely foreign to them. They've always been able to whine and moan. Hence the pent up frustration and eventual explosion of the individual. By no means not all but some. And yes, I'm a Navy Vet, 12 years of service, Honorable discharge 1975-1987.
Until, and I've stated this the last time a FT Hood shooting happened, we fully arm career designated E-5's and above with side arms on a "ARMED FORCES BASE" then any crazy can conduct mayhem. Heck, with most bases in the US relying on "Base Police" (DOD) what if 20 Jihad Jonnies with full auto weapons attacks a base. I'm thinking a few hundred would perish before all were taken down. What really grates me is that somewhere at sometime somebody said that it would be an acceptable loss verses having active duty performing security duties. I stood duty more time then not and was always armed whether it was Petty Office of the watch on board, SAT/BAF TEAM or Duty Master of Arms at Weapons Stations. I did have lethal authority by ALL CO's.
mappow
New member
Not being belligerent but both stories are written by NON-Active Duty ie..Silly-vilians types. More talking heads spewing for a by-line and published story.
