Stop! I'm armed!

[flying eagle]

I've been teaching for over six years and this is what I teach students to do if they see a situation developing that might cause them harm. It has worked! I've had six people use it while holding up their emty hand in as a stop sign. I've had two students draw their gun and point it at the advancing man and threaten to shoot. That ended it. I even had one guy simply say "That's close enough." he wasn't even armed and it worked. Awareness counts.
By the way, I teach the course for $45.00 with $20.00 of that going to my club.

 

[Military Man]

Depending on the situtation my policy if I draw my weapon is to yell in a loud voice "license to carry, Freeze, I am a good guy" Hope fully this lets on lookers know that I am a good guy and also law enforcement who are there or arriving.

 

[thebrez1]

I too use the hand as a stop signal.

Personally, I would never yell out to anyone that I was armed, especially the bad guy. "Stop. I can not help you, or back up and leave me alone, followed by DROP THE WEAPON (at the top of my voice) if they are armed. No one is going to know I am armed until they see the weapon. and if it's out, it is going off. No fakes, no warning shots or warnings of any type. I am not going to relinquish the one thing going in my favor. I will not give the BG a chance to adjust his/her tactics or have one second to reevaluate. You keep coming after verbal warnings and you are going to be shot.

 

[amrote]

Guys, you all bring up valid points. If you are attacked and in fear for your life, you do not know what you are going to do. By rehearsing what you are going to say on a live range and then shooting as if you are defending yourself, you are ahead of the game. We fall back onto how we train and know your state deadly force laws. Does your state have a "stand your ground" law, does your state allow concealed carry (if it doesn't move)? Thebrez1, I love how you would yell, "drop the weapon." This is very important and very good to practice. The thing we have to remember about a deadly force encounter is bystandards are all going to "see" things differently, but they all will hear and hopefully remember what you "yelled." Have a plan, practice your plan, but have a second and third plan just in case. Things never happen the way we want them to. Great discussion.

 

[Oldgrunt]

:stop:My intention is to hold up my empty hand and tell the BG to STOP while having my hand on my weapon in it's holster. If he doesn't stop, then the gun will come out and then it's Katy, bar the door! Or, at least, that is my intention while thinking about it behind my computer. In a real life situation with adrenalin flowing, things might be a little different, depending on how fast the situation develops. There are a lot of variables in a situation like that but at least that is what I think I will do. With luck, the situation will never develop.

 

[Treo]

OK first I'm sure we all know that deadly force isn't justified if the bad guy stands down when he sees your weapon but I always feel compelled to point that out when I read posts stating "If my weapon comes out I'm going to fire"

Second, I am not justified in drawing my weapon unless I am in reasonable fear that I am going to lose my life or suffer grievous harm if I don't.

By 'reasonable" I mean circumstances such that I can clearly articulate to a jury (because there is a damn good chance that you're going to have to) "this specific action taken by the deceased lead me to believe that he had every intention of ending my life." and have them agree w/ me that I made the right call.

In such a situation (and I've been there) I didn't have time to say a word. The (would be) mugger stepped out from between the cars took three steps toward me in the time it took me to clear the holster, saw the gun and took off 45 degrees off my center. It was over in less time than it took you to read this paragraph.

 

[Oldgrunt]

OK first I'm sure we all know that deadly force isn't justified if the bad guy stands down when he sees your weapon but I always feel compelled to point that out when I read posts stating "If my weapon comes out I'm going to fire"

Second, I am not justified in drawing my weapon unless I am in reasonable fear that I am going to lose my life or suffer grievous harm if I don't.

By 'reasonable" I mean circumstances such that I can clearly articulate to a jury (because there is a damn good chance that you're going to have to) "this specific action taken by the deceased lead me to believe that he had every intention of ending my life." and have them agree w/ me that I made the right call.

In such a situation (and I've been there) I didn't have time to say a word. The (would be) mugger stepped out from between the cars took three steps toward me in the time it took me to clear the holster, saw the gun and took off 45 degrees off my center. It was over in less time than it took you to read this paragraph.

Treo: If the bad guy stands down, you are right, there will be no necessity of deadly force. I don't know how old you are but I am 74 years old. In any altercation, I am at a disadvantage and feel that I could very easily lose my life or suffer serious harm. That is why I carry a gun in the first place. If I pull my gun, I hope the sight of it will make the BG back down. If not, a.40 cal hollow-point will. I don't pretend to be "Billy Badass" by any means. I will not take a beating or harm from a young thug as long as I have a weapon to defend myself and family. I figure I will be leaving this world soon enough without any help from some doofless thug looking for an easy mark. By the way, have you heard the saying, "Don't start a fight with an old man who can no longer fight. He will kill you."? And yes, I will be able to tell a jury why the incident transpired and why I took the action I did. It may be a crap shoot but I will at least be there to take my throw. God willing, none of this will ever transpire and will become a moot point.:biggrin:

 

[mappow]

OK first I'm sure we all know that deadly force isn't justified if the bad guy stands down when he sees your weapon but I always feel compelled to point that out when I read posts stating "If my weapon comes out I'm going to fire"Second, I am not justified in drawing my weapon unless I am in reasonable fear that I am going to lose my life or suffer grievous harm if I don't.

"If my weapon comes out I'm going to fire". That's what we are authorized to do. NOT negotiate, not counsel, not perform LEO duties or some type of intervention. We are authorized to draw and shoot when our Life or in our State someone else's life in is eminent danger of being killed. NOT brandish, not yell, not reason but draw and shoot to defend and neutralize the threat.

NOW, with that said, there are so many scenarios and variables that we could go on for years talking about parameters of shoot / don't shoot. But in my mind I only know one thing as a civilian. I can legally protect myself to the nth degree. It would be rare that I would even consider a take down and disarm. BUT again, I can't cover every possibly until it presents itself.

 

[Treo]

"If my weapon comes out I'm going to fire". That's what we are authorized to do. NOT negotiate, not counsel, not perform LEO duties or some type of intervention. We are authorized to draw and shoot when our Life or in our State someone else's life in is eminent danger of being killed. NOT brandish, not yell, not reason but draw and shoot to defend and neutralize the threat.

NOW, with that said, there are so many scenarios and variables that we could go on for years talking about parameters of shoot / don't shoot. But in my mind I only know one thing as a civilian. I can legally protect myself to the nth degree. It would be rare that I would even consider a take down and disarm. BUT again, I can't cover every possibly until it presents itself.

You might want to read what I actually wrote there hero. I don’t recall saying anything about negotiating, counseling or performing LEO duties. I said the last time I had to draw the bad guy took one look and ran like Hell.

You go on ahead and shoot there bud. I’ll bring you some comic books in jail

 

[OngoingFreedom]

It doesn't help the argument when courts say a parent can't simply display a weapon to stand down an aggressive, armed (with a knife) hothead in the parking lot at school, and that he should have shot the aggressor.

 

[Treo]

It doesn't help the argument when courts say a parent can't simply display a weapon to stand down an aggressive, armed (with a knife) hothead in the parking lot at school, and that he should have shot the aggressor.

I think I see the problem. when I say "stand down" I mean break off the attack

 

[Nightmare45]

Our Courts and Congress forget that criminal means outside the law, as such if confrontation with a BG takes place with no LEO on site, you would be left with option of leaving peacefully (first option), ordering the Punks to cease (joke) or being ready to defend yourself, hopefully problem would disappear (almost never does). Once within 21 feet anyone or several individuals is a serious hazard with or without a knife and a I will react.

 

[mappow]

You might want to read what I actually wrote there hero. I don’t recall saying anything about negotiating, counseling or performing LEO duties. I said the last time I had to draw the bad guy took one look and ran like Hell.

You go on ahead and shoot there bud. I’ll bring you some comic books in jail

Not being a Hero, being real. For the most part IF I draw my weapon, I'll shoot to kill. By definition of our State Laws concerning CWP and the Right to Defend yourself. My earlier post was not a rebuttal against your post. Just a confirmation . No offense intended, just as always stating what I would do.

If it happens that I need some reading material. I would prefer a recent copy of the National Review or maybe a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (Always good for a re-read every year or two).

 

[Treo]

Not being a Hero, being real. For the most part IF I draw my weapon, I'll shoot to kill. By definition of our State Laws concerning CWP and the Right to Defend yourself. My earlier post was not a rebuttal against your post. Just a confirmation . No offense intended, just as always stating what I would do.

If it happens that I need some reading material. I would prefer a recent copy of the National Review or maybe a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (Always good for a re-read every year or two).

How about Life on the Mississipi ?

 

[Scouse]

When I first started teaching, 1980, my Students were Private Security, ATM Employees, Bank Guards. The challenge I used was, "Stop I have a Gun" and the gun hand dropping to the Revolver (only handgun allowed at that time in Canada)
the non dominant hand held up in the universal stop sign.

One of my Students used this, exactly as he was trained, ended up drawing and firing one round, from an estimated distance of 2" into the heart of a broken pint mug armed assailant. Witnesses stated this person stopped, took one step back, dropped the weapon, collapsed. Dead at the scene.

The 158g Semi-Wadcutter lead bullet cut the pulmonary artery in half, blood pressure plummeted. Traversed the upper body, found in the clothing, that was cut from the body, in the O.R.

That obviously was not the end of it, Canada Aye! But the ATM Employee did end up free, a Jury called it justified.

I later used the NYPD Challenge (Modified!)

 

[tcox4freedom]

Not being a Hero, being real. For the most part IF I draw my weapon, I'll shoot to kill. By definition of our State Laws concerning CWP and the Right to Defend yourself. My earlier post was not a rebuttal against your post. Just a confirmation . No offense intended, just as always stating what I would do.

If it happens that I need some reading material. I would prefer a recent copy of the National Review or maybe a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (Always good for a re-read every year or two).

Be careful mappow. That kind of talk WILL get you jail time even in our state!

I shoot to STOP a threat! Should that threat die, it's on them.

Now as to you saying you are going to "shoot" if your gun comes out:
I'd venture quess you just have NOT been in the situation "YET" where having to cover a police officer, or control multiple "ARMED" BGs with your weapon ("ATR"), has been required.

I've had to do BOTH!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Case in point!
When I was a county officer, I was flagged down by some local residents of a housing project. A city officer had walked in on a drug deal and had FOUR heavily armed BGs he was trying to cover with his service "revolver". (It was a LONG time ago!)

If my partner and I had gone in guns "blazing", the officer would have most likely been killed. HOWEVER! We needed to get inside and gain control of what was an escalating situation. (The armed BGs were trying to spread out enough so the officer could not cover them with his service "revolver".) Again, it was a LONG time ago!

What we did was go in FAST & FURIOUS to startle and avert the BGs attention. My partner came flying up to the front in the car; making the BGs believe a car was about to crash through the plate class windows. While my partner drew their attention, I went in the back door with my shotgun.

Before they knew it, the BGs were facing down my 870 and a revolver. This made them drop their firearms and immediately give up.

NOT a single shot fired!
Nobody shot!
No DEAD officers!
$750K in drug money taken into evidence
AND-
A whole BUNCH of cocaine off the streets!


AGAIN; There are times when drawing a weapon is called for; BUT, shooting it is NOT!
-

 

[mappow]

TCOX, As a non-LEO my weapon would only come out to stop a threat against me or my family. And then only if a clear and present danger to my life or extreme physical harm. I would not draw to show I am armed, I would not draw to defend myself. No brandishing, no implied threat, no implied warning. If I have to draw all else has been expired for me to reach that point. I draw, I shoot. Two rounds, DCM, evaluate and repeat if necessary.(Multiple scenarios of that statement will require multiple adjustments) Make no mistake, I've worked in Law Enforcement and also have carried a weapon in others jobs I've had. NOW days, my CC is for MY protection, not as a LEO or back up for a LEO. Although if directed or asked would support if requested or needed.

As I stated earlier, NOT trying to sound like a bad ass or Rambo, just being real. There will be life changing occurrences on both ends of my weapon, hopefully it'll never come to that, but if it does. My part will be almost automatic and certainly one fluid motion. The issue will be what leads up to that point.

Also, welcome back. Haven't seen ya post in awhile.

 

[tcox4freedom]

TCOX,
...There will be life changing occurrences on both ends of my weapon, hopefully it'll never come to that, but if it does. My part will be almost automatic and certainly one fluid motion. The issue will be what leads up to that point.

Also, welcome back. Haven't seen ya post in awhile.

Thanks Mappow
I really like you posts. I especially believe that the above "bolded" section can NEVER be over emphasized.

 

[santa]

All these 'I would do this----'. is a very good thing for all of us because it causes us to think. As a person who has had to use my gun I realize my most important asset is my brain. Every situation is unique but rehersing what we(I) would do is preparing oneself for that eventuality that you hope never comes, but if it does that you are prepared to do what you have to do. And face the afteraffects. Keep up the good work guys and gals.

 

[Ed Hamberger]

You might want to read what I actually wrote there hero. I don’t recall saying anything about negotiating, counseling or performing LEO duties. I said the last time I had to draw the bad guy took one look and ran like Hell.

You go on ahead and shoot there bud. I’ll bring you some comic books in jail

The Man was simply stating his opinion Treo, there is no need for name calling here. We don't need that kind of language, and we won't tolerate it either... :no::no: