Still another shooting


ecocks

New member
This one in Colorado Springs, second shooting in CO in 12 hours, unknown if related to the one during the night in Denver.

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Red Hat

New member
I heard on the news that the church had a security team and they shot and killed one of the shooters! In todays climate every church need a security team!
 

ecocks

New member
Notice

The church apparently maintains an armed security team. I had heard of this occasionally on PDO. Some churches have their CC members organized for overwatch duty. I have seen a few very large churches (the one in Colorado Springs is pretty good-sized) with off-duty LEO's but they seem to be traffic-oriented rather than "security" details. My parents church in Memphis is extremely large, numbering several thousand for services, and usually has 5-6 LEO's on-hand as services end. Something to think about in this day and age.
 

DrLewall

Charter Member
Can't carry in a church here in AR, it's "against" the law! 5-73-306 (16)..We don't go to church, it's too dangerous!
 
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ecocks

New member
Noticed a comment

from the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs that a group of "committed volunteers" were involved in beefing up security after the previous night's shooting in Denver. Something for individuals and congregations to think about.
 

ecocks

New member
Question

Can't carry in a church here in AR, it's "against" the law! 5-73-306 (16)..We don't go to church, it's too dangerous!

Did not check the statute but is Arkansas one of the states which allow it if the church grants permission to carry on their premises?
 

DrLewall

Charter Member
to answer your question, no...

5-73-306. Prohibited places.
No license to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to this subchapter authorizes any person to carry a concealed handgun into:

(1) Any police station, sheriff's station, or Department of Arkansas State Police station;

(2) Any Arkansas Highway Police Division of the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department facility;

(3) (A) Any building of the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department or onto grounds adjacent to any building of the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department.

(B) However, subdivision (3)(A) of this section does not apply to a rest area or weigh station of the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department;

(4) Any detention facility, prison, or jail;

(5) Any courthouse;

(6) (A) Any courtroom.

(B) However, nothing in this subchapter precludes a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon into his or her courtroom;

(7) Any polling place;

(8) Any meeting place of the governing body of any governmental entity;

(9) Any meeting of the General Assembly or a committee of the General Assembly;

(10) Any state office;

(11) Any athletic event not related to firearms;

(12) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in § 3-9-402, licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises;

(13) Any portion of an establishment, except a restaurant as defined in § 3-9-402, where beer or light wine is consumed on the premises;

(14) Any school, college, community college, or university campus building or event, unless for the purpose of participating in an authorized firearms-related activity;

(15) Inside the passenger terminal of any airport, except that no person is prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the passenger terminal if the firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking the firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft;

(16) Any church or other place of worship;

(17) Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law;

(18) Any place where a parade or demonstration requiring a permit is being held, and the licensee is a participant in the parade or demonstration; or

(19) (A) Any place at the discretion of the person or entity exercising control over the physical location of the place by placing at each entrance to the place a written notice clearly readable at a distance of not less than ten feet (10") that “carrying a handgun is prohibited”.

(B) (i) If the place does not have a roadway entrance, there shall be a written notice placed anywhere upon the premises of the place.

(ii) In addition to the requirement of subdivision (19)(B)(i) of this section, there shall be at least one (1) written notice posted within every three (3) acres of a place with no roadway entrance.

(C) A written notice as described in subdivision (19)(A) of this section is not required for a private home.

(D) Any licensee entering a private home shall notify the occupant that the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun.
 

kwo51

New member
Brinks picked up the offering in a large church I went to in 1971. So much for it going to GOD.
 

KimberPB

New member
Latest update. You don't see this much! She's a hero in my book!

"She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said of the guard, whom he said is not a law enforcement officer and used her personal weapon.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/10/colorado.shootings/index.html

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (CNN) -- A Colorado Springs megachurch instituted security precautions after a shooting at a Denver area mission center earlier Sunday, saving "hundreds of lives" at the New Life Church, senior Pastor Brady Boyd said Monday.

A New Life parishioner acting as a security guard shot and killed a gunman who entered the church Sunday afternoon after he had gotten no more than 50 feet inside the building, Boyd said.

Two teens, identified by police as Rachael Works, 16, and Stephanie Works, 18, were killed in what Boyd called "a senseless, random attack."

Boyd said the teens were sisters and were shot in the parking lot. Police said their father David Works, 51, was also shot and is hospitalized in fair condition with two gunshot wounds.

Boyd said the female security guard was a hero in preventing further bloodshed, rushing to confront the gunman just inside the church.

"She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said of the guard, whom he said is not a law enforcement officer and used her personal weapon. Watch pastor tell how guard saved lives »

Boyd said the gunman, whom police have yet to identify, had no connection to the church.

"He simply showed up on our property yesterday with a gun, with the intention of hurting people, and he did," Boyd said.

The pastor also said New Life had taken extra precautions Sunday after hearing of the attack in Arvada, Colorado, early Sunday morning, in which a gunman killed two people after he was refused lodging at Youth With a Mission live-in Christian missionary center.

"Hundreds of lives were saved yesterday because of the plan that was put in place," said Boyd, who put the number of people on the church campus at the time as 7,000.

Authorities say the Arvada and Colorado Springs shootings may be related, and overnight police from Arvada executed a search warrant obtained by Colorado Springs police for an address in the Denver suburb of Englewood. Authorities did not say how the address may relate to the case.

Lt. Skip Arms of the Colorado Springs Police Department said that no motive has been determined for the gunman at the second shooting. The gunman's identity has not been released.

Police in the two cities say different weapons were used in the shootings -- a handgun in Arvada and a rifle in Colorado Springs. Watch police, heartbroken pastor react to attacks »

The first incident took place Sunday at about 12:30 a.m. at Youth With a Mission in Arvada. Police said a man with a beard, wearing a dark jacket, glasses, and skullcap, entered the facility, got into a dispute with a staff member about whether he could stay there for the night, and then opened fire.

Investigators tried to track the gunman through fresh snow with the help of dogs, but lost his trail in a heavily walked area, Deputy Chief Gary Creager of Arvada police said.

Then shortly after 1 p.m. in Colorado Springs -- about 80 miles south of Arvada -- a black-clad gunman opened fire on worshippers at New Life. Watch man describe shooting inside church »


Youth With a Mission co-founder Peter Warren identified the two killed staff members as Tiffany Johnson, 26, and Philip Crouse, 24. He said they were cleaning up from a Saturday night Christmas banquet when the attack occurred.

Another staff member, 24-year-old Dan Griebenow, was in critical condition with a bullet in his neck as of Sunday night, and a second survivor, Charlie Blanch, was shot in the legs, the group said on its Web site.
 

sailor

New member
A Sheepdog

The lady "volunteer security guard", apparently was a parishioner of the church, who was the only one armed, with her personal weapon (from what I have been able to read about it). She actively went after the shooter, brought him down, then terminated him because of further threatening actions (this is one cool lady that I would be proud to have watching my back!). This is a classic sheepdog action that needs to be kept before the public, as a clear counter to the idea that the general, qualified, public should not be armed. This lady needs far more recognition than she seems to be getting - mostly a couple of lines of print, and classed as a "security guard". My hat is off to her determined and successful action against a life threatening event.
sailor
 

ecocks

New member
Actually

there are news reports citing that there were 15 to 20 armed volunteer security people at the church when this took place. The church has stated that earlier that morning they had recognized that there was a possibility of being targeted and had activated a plan to increase their normal security. Nice to see an organization being proactive on this type of issue. Sad about the two young girls who were killed but it could have been much worse, the shooter reportedly had the rifle plus two handguns in his possession with extra ammunition.
 

Bohemian

New member
It also should be noted that we should pay attention to who has a record of selling us out on the second amendment and is asking for our support in the caucuses and primaries just around the corner. Moreover, (That Every U.S. Citizen 18 or over should attend). Register to vote now if you have not already.

Presidential Candidate Second Amendment Sellouts...

Republicans:
Mitt Romney
Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Fred Thompson

Democrats:
ALL OF THEM.

Who is the only canidate who has a CCW?
Mike Huckabee

Standing tall for the second amendment, Mike Huckabee on the issues & policies:
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Issues.Home

banner_mikehuckabee.gif
 

Ektarr

Dedicated Infidel
Who is the only canidate who has a CCW?
Mike Huckabee

I followed this link and read it, Bo, with special attention to the 2A blurb. It was an interesting history lesson, and illustrative of his opinion on the topic. What I didn't see was something along the linse of, "...as President, I promise to . . .", or words to that effect.

What I want to see is someone who says, "As President, I promise to fully support the 2nd Amendment and ensure that all American citizens are free to carry concealed weapons without fear of breaking unconstitutional laws which limit that Right."

Can you steer me to anything like that from him?
 

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