Bill Goulet
New member
Is there a site or thread that lists the different states and which policy they follow?
Stand your ground vs castle doctrine
- Thread starter Bill Goulet
- Start date
Rhino
New member
Handgunlaw.us has fairly decent information on each state, though I'd check the state statutes themselves if you need absolutely reliable info. And there is no stand your ground vs castle doctrine. Those are two terms for the same legal principle. Duty to retreat and 'make my day laws' are other terms sometimes used for the same principle. Different states and different media outlets will use different terms, but it all boils down to the same thing, where and under what circumstances you can or cannot defend yourself using deadly force without a requirement to retreat first.
Try here: Index of /states
Rhino
New member
Not true. The Ohio castle doctrine statute, which never actually uses the words "castle doctrine", extends to vehicles. The Florida stand your ground statute, which never actually uses the words "stand your ground", applies in the home. Just because terminology is commonly used in a certain way doesn't mean it's limited to that particular way. Castle doctrine is used to describe issues surrounding the home, i.e. your home is your castle, but both terms are commonly used interchangeably for statutes that apply both in and outside the home. "Stand your ground" is mostly a media invention. Castle doctrine is the legal principle such statutes are based on, and if you look at other state statutes that remove the duty to retreat outside the home, you'll likely find that more often than not, it's in their castle doctine statute. It may even be true of all of them. To date, that's been the case in every single one I've found.
CapGun
Active member
It's pretty simple "Castle Doctrine" essentially refers to your "Castle" home. In many states this extends to your vehicle.
"Stand your ground" laws can be best described as> > > If you have a right to be where you are,usually referring to public property, on private property you only are there due to the owners consent, you do not have a "duty to retreat" from a threat. You can "stand your ground"! In mentioning private property think about what trespassing means.
"Stand your ground" laws can be best described as> > > If you have a right to be where you are,usually referring to public property, on private property you only are there due to the owners consent, you do not have a "duty to retreat" from a threat. You can "stand your ground"! In mentioning private property think about what trespassing means.
Rhino
New member
That is indeed how they are typically used, which is what I just said. But both terms are used interchangeably, and the same statutes that deal with duty to retreat in your home or vehicle are usually also the ones that deal with that duty elsewhere, so they are not seperate issues. Legally they are one and the same, and you can use either term to refer to the duty to retreat either inside the home, or outside of it.
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Texas castle doctrine protects you anywhere you have a legal right to be from criminal and civil action. Keeping it simple still have a lawyer.
E
ezkl2230
Guest
Castle and SYG are two distinct laws/terms in Michigan.
Castle -
MI Castle law covers you only on your own property (and not just in the house or garage, as is the case of some state Castle laws - ANYWHERE on your property).
SYG -
In MI, Castle applies only to your own property, SYG applies to all other places where you have a legal right to be while engaging in legal activities. They are not interchangeable in MI.
Castle -
MI Castle law covers you only on your own property (and not just in the house or garage, as is the case of some state Castle laws - ANYWHERE on your property).
SYG -
In MI, Castle applies only to your own property, SYG applies to all other places where you have a legal right to be while engaging in legal activities. They are not interchangeable in MI.
Rhino
New member
That's not really castle doctrine, per se. It says, "In cases in which section 2 of the self-defense act does not apply..." Section 2 of the Self Defense Act was about force other than deadly force. That does make me wonder why they placed this exception here in such a manner though. It seems rather odd that they would mix other than deadly force with deadly force.
Actually it WAS just in your house until People v Riddle in 2000. That's what prompted the passage of the Self Defense Act of 2006, Public Act 309, which expanded castle doctrine beyond the home. Public Acts 310, 311, 312, 313 and 314 were also passed as part of that legislation.
Neither statute uses the terms castle doctrine or stand your ground. Realistically no statute should. Castle is a doctrine or a principle, not a finite rule that could be considered a statute. That's why it's implemented in so many different ways by different jurisdictions. SYG isn't even a doctrine or principle. It's a slang word made up by the media. In the context that we discuss them, we are arguing the principle of duty to retreat, and that's really what these statutes are dealing with. If you wanted to get overly technical with the terminology, castle doctrine doesn't even apply to this discussion at all. Castle doctrine evolved from English common law, and was originally "An Englishman's home is his castle." It was adopted by the colonists in America and into common law here, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the duty to retreat. It was developed to prevent unwanted intrusions into the home, usually by corrupt or power crazed officials, something we used the fourth amendment for. So you can't technically say specifically that any particular law is verbatim 'castle doctrine' unless the law happens to say the King's men can't enter your house without your permission. Castle doctrine is a principle, not a law. But there's a twist to that. If people stuck strictly to the principle, your argument would be correct. Since the historical principle of castle doctrine surrounds the inviolability of the home, then castle doctrine based statutes should thus be limited to matters of the home, or 'castle'. Unfortunately people have not stuck to that principle (big surprise). The principle of inviolability of the home has been morphed into the principle of inviolability of the person, and the doctrine has thus shifted beyond the home. The shift started logically at first, by merely extending from the structure to the property as a whole. Then it extended to vehicles in many jurisdictions. Now the so-called stand your ground laws extend the concept even further. But no matter where it extends to or what conditions or restrictions are attached, it's still the same principle or concept of inviolability that's being dealt with, and it still manifests in where and how the duty to retreat applies or doesn't apply.
The simple existence of two separate sections in the code does not mean they are based on separate principles. But this is the first I've seen of two separate statutes. I figured they had to exist somewhere, but I hadn't seen any yet. Thanks for that.
CapGun
Active member
They are only used interchangeably by people that do not understand the difference! For instance in NY as posted here on the info section of permits it states that NY is a castle doctrine state but does not have a stand your ground law. Therefore you are incorrect they are not one in the same. Castle Doctrine is separate from Stand Your ground Laws. Most Castle Doctrine states do also have Stand Your Ground Laws though they are both separate laws.
Rhino
New member
I didn't say they were not one and the same. I said they were the same concept.
No they aren't. So far, Michigan is the only state I know of with two seperate statutes, though several states extend the concept of inviolability and remove the duty to retreat beyond just the home (the castle). Here in Ohio you are allowed to stand your ground in your car without a duty to retreat, and it's in the castle doctrine statute that removes the duty to retreat in your home. The so-called stand your ground law in Florida that everyone talks about when discussing George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin is actually their castle doctrine statute, Title XLVI, 776.013. You may feel they're different because you're one of the people who has been using them interchangeably for a long time, and you're certainly not alone in that regard, but they are in fact one and the same. Or more to the point, stand your ground laws don't officially exist. That's a slang term invented by the media, along with 'make my day laws', and there is no legal reference for it. The only legal reference is castle doctrine.
the dark
New member
Florida statutes get pretty darned close to saying those words:
"3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony"
and the statute notes "any other place" as a way of expanding beyond dwelling, which is used earlier in the establishment of presumptions along with residence and vehicle:
"(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle"
Rhino
New member
In their castle doctrine statute.
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