South Carolina: Governor Nikki Haley Signs into Law Concealed Carry Reform Bill

[Islander]

A great day for us in South Carolina. Our legislators have been working for the last several years on getting rid of the ridiculous ban on restaurant carry. Thanks Governor Haley! :triniti:
NRA-ILA | South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Signs into Law Concealed Carry Reform Bill

Today, Governor Nikki Haley (R) signed into law an important concealed carry reform, Senate Bill 308, during a public ceremony at the General Assembly. This important pro-gun legislation makes several improvements to the South Carolina Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP), including removing the prohibition on CWP holders carrying a concealed handgun into an establishment licensed to serve alcohol, extending the duration or length of term of the CWP, improving training standards, improving the application and renewal process and expanding where a CWP holder may transport a firearm in his or her motor vehicle.



Governor Haley spoke at length during today’s signing ceremony about the importance of removing the restriction on CWP holders carrying for personal protection in restaurants where alcohol is served. She also clarified much of the misinformation anti-gun extremists and the media had been claiming regarding this critical personal protection reform.

The NRA thanks Governor Haley for signing SB 308 into law, the state legislators who voted for it and NRA members who contacted their state lawmakers in support of this needed reform. Your NRA-ILA is working to ensure other pro-gun reforms remain a priority for the South Carolina General Assembly this year, and we will continue to keep you updated as this legislative session progresses.

NEW LAW DETAILS HERE:
2013-2014 Bill 308: Firearms - South Carolina Legislature Online

 

[nogods]

Sounds like SC is getting closer to New York. We've had most of those "reforms" since the enactment of the concealed carry laws in New York. Congratulations on joining NY as a pro-2A state.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy nogods,

Sounds like SC is getting closer to New York. We've had most of those "reforms" since the enactment of the concealed carry laws in New York. Congratulations on joining NY as a pro-2A state.

Since when did NYS become Pro 2A?

NYS gun laws are a joke and their CCW laws and regs are a nightmare.

Paul

 

[kelcarry]

A great day for us in South Carolina. Our legislators have been working for the last several years on getting rid of the ridiculous ban on restaurant carry. Thanks Governor Haley! :triniti:
NRA-ILA | South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Signs into Law Concealed Carry Reform Bill

Today, Governor Nikki Haley (R) signed into law an important concealed carry reform, Senate Bill 308, during a public ceremony at the General Assembly. This important pro-gun legislation makes several improvements to the South Carolina Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP), including removing the prohibition on CWP holders carrying a concealed handgun into an establishment licensed to serve alcohol, extending the duration or length of term of the CWP, improving training standards, improving the application and renewal process and expanding where a CWP holder may transport a firearm in his or her motor vehicle.


2013-2014 Bill 308: Firearms - South Carolina Legislature Online

I agree but do have some questions. Exactly how does this bill "improve training standards"? Exactly what will be required in "training" to obtain a CCWP? I know that I received a comprehensive course given by a very qualified Deputy Sheriff from Dorchester County that included soups to nuts on firearms and handling of same and a very intense session of target shooting with comprehensive review of how I was handling my firearm during the shooting session. My reading of the law seems to leave this out of the requirements for the permit.
I have problems with gun sales that are outside of the need for a FFL dealer form, particularly the kind of sales that I see take place outside or even inside gun shows where someone is walking around with a case and a price--you have the money, you give it to him and you leave with the firearm--something rubs me wrong on this and comments are welcome but my real point in this reply concerns the training--any replies on the training requirements that are now necessary, would be welcome.
PS: I assume the new law now allows you, if you have your CCWP, to have your firearm under your seat and not on your person. Are there any other locations except for the old law (console, glove compartment, trunk) where you can have firearm easily accessible?
PPS: 1.Just reread more carefully the new law. Seems like training is still the same but I have seen words where training has been eliminated. Confused.2. Firearm can now be in any kind of storage compartment, open or close---can this be as simple as a cigar box? I assume firearm cannot just be "under a newspaper". I assume the compartment can be a purse or an attache case, as well.

 

[BluesStringer]

I have problems with gun sales that are outside of the need for a FFL dealer form, particularly the kind of sales that I see take place outside or even inside gun shows where someone is walking around with a case and a price--you have the money, you give it to him and you leave with the firearm--something rubs me wrong on this and comments are welcome....

An FFL is only required of firearms dealers. The word "dealers" is well-defined within GCA '68 as-amended and/or clarified by FOPA '86 and Brady '93, and does not include transfers between two private parties who do not fit within those definitions. Whether inside or outside at a gun show, or in the seller's living room or garage, or any venue of the parties' choosing, any state gun control law that required private parties to submit to background checks through a third-party FFL would exceed the requirements in the federal Gun Control Act of '68.

So essentially you're saying that there is not enough gun control in the Gun Control Act of '68. Wow.

How many millions of weapons were transferred both privately and by dealers before GCA '68 when there was no such thing as an "FFL?" And since the passage of GCA '68, is there a lick of evidence to suggest that "prohibited persons" can't get guns with (or without for that matter) nefarious intent anytime they please?

Since GCA '68, how many prohibited persons have been prosecuted for trying to illegally acquire a weapon? I just did several searches on various iterations of phraseology to try to find the answer to that question, and if search results are any indicator, literally zero convictions have happened. Now, I know that there have been some prosecutions, but even though I can't seem to find them now, I have seen stats before that reveal that not only are convictions very rare, but prosecutions are exceedingly rare too, which is probably why there are no results for some variation of a search on, "prohibited persons prosecuted under GCA '68" that actually answers the question.

If the buyer in a private party transfer is indeed a prohibited person, how will making them fill out an ATF Form 4473 through a third-party FFL stop them from lying on the form and getting the weapon they want anyway? The form relies as much on honesty from the buyer as any record they might have that would expose them as being prohibited. The "honor system" hardly seems an effective strategy to preventing criminals and/or crazy people from getting guns. And of course, then there's that antiquated, outdated and obsolete little phrase, "shall not be infringed" that a few people, myself included, believe is, and should always remain, the law of the land.

In short, what actual "benefit" from requiring third-party FFL's in face-to-face private sales would your state enjoy if it did institute (or continue?) such a protocol? I'm asking specifically about "benefits" that can be quantified and/or substantiated, not just meaningless feel-good do-nothing lip-service to "doing something" about crime.

Blues

 

[kelcarry]

Hey Blues and all that "like" your answer. I appreciate everything you said and really should have left this whole subject out of my comments. All I really wanted to know was the questions I raised about the new firearm law. I will always find it absurd that someone can walk by a line of people attending a gun show and just hand a firearm over to someone who has cash--period end of story.

 

[BluesStringer]

Hey Blues and all that "like" your answer. I appreciate everything you said and really should have left this whole subject out of my comments. All I really wanted to know was the questions I raised about the new firearm law. I will always find it absurd that someone can walk by a line of people attending a gun show and just hand a firearm over to someone who has cash--period end of story.

Translation: "You got it exactly right, Blues. I don't think there's enough gun control in the Gun Control Act of 1968." Got it.

 

[kelcarry]

Just can't answer a simple question because the saliva is still dripping on your keyboard, can you? Don't bother with answer--tired of this garbage.

 

[nogods]

Howdy nogods,



Since when did NYS become Pro 2A?

NYS gun laws are a joke and their CCW laws and regs are a nightmare.

Paul

I'm guessing from your post that you are unfamiliar with NYS concealed carry laws.

The NY State law, unlike many of the nanny gun states, does not contain restrictions on carry in a car, a church, a government building. a restaurant, a bar, sporting event, a parade, and on and on and on.

Here we are in the second decade of the 21st century and there are still states that prohibit concealed carry in a bar, a church, a medical facility, a sporting event, and any government building. WTF, those states shouldn't allow people they don't think are mature enough to carry a weapon a permit to carry one in the first place.

Maybe the day will come when the SC Nanny state government gives you a note so you can carry in a Church, government building, or (10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed

 

[whodat2710]

I'm guessing from your post that you are unfamiliar with NYS concealed carry laws.

The NY State law, unlike many of the nanny gun states, does not contain restrictions on carry in a car, a church, a government building. a restaurant, a bar, sporting event, a parade, and on and on and on.

Here we are in the second decade of the 21st century and there are still states that prohibit concealed carry in a bar, a church, a medical facility, a sporting event, and any government building. WTF, those states shouldn't allow people they don't think are mature enough to carry a weapon a permit to carry one in the first place.

Maybe the day will come when the SC Nanny state government gives you a note so you can carry in a Church, government building, or (10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed

And what is the exact number of NY residents that have a permit, and have never been involved in security or law enforcement? You know, average Joes that have never been "government approved" for carrying a gun on duty.

 

[whodat2710]

I agree but do have some questions. Exactly how does this bill "improve training standards"? Exactly what will be required in "training" to obtain a CCWP? I know that I received a comprehensive course given by a very qualified Deputy Sheriff from Dorchester County that included soups to nuts on firearms and handling of same and a very intense session of target shooting with comprehensive review of how I was handling my firearm during the shooting session. My reading of the law seems to leave this out of the requirements for the permit.
I have problems with gun sales that are outside of the need for a FFL dealer form, particularly the kind of sales that I see take place outside or even inside gun shows where someone is walking around with a case and a price--you have the money, you give it to him and you leave with the firearm--something rubs me wrong on this and comments are welcome but my real point in this reply concerns the training--any replies on the training requirements that are now necessary, would be welcome.
PS: I assume the new law now allows you, if you have your CCWP, to have your firearm under your seat and not on your person. Are there any other locations except for the old law (console, glove compartment, trunk) where you can have firearm easily accessible?
PPS: 1.Just reread more carefully the new law. Seems like training is still the same but I have seen words where training has been eliminated. Confused.2. Firearm can now be in any kind of storage compartment, open or close---can this be as simple as a cigar box? I assume firearm cannot just be "under a newspaper". I assume the compartment can be a purse or an attache case, as well.

Simple answer is the law is not perfect, but it does remove some stupid things that were previously in effect. They still require training, but there is no longer a stopwatch on it. Teaching a group that has never held a gun will take longer; i.e. "keep your finger outside the trigger guard" could devolve into "this is a trigger, this is what it does, this is the trigger guard" etc.

The restaurant part is designed so that someone that is carrying doesn't have to leave their gun in the car if they stop for dinner and the place serves drinks.

As far as having the gun in a "container", again it just removes some requirement that were in place before that were stupid, and unlike some states they would rather not see the gun laying on the passenger seat. For some reason they would rather you hide it from them. Whatever, mine will be in the holster so it doesn't matter. I guess if I am heading to the range with my other guns it will make it less restrictive.

 

[BluesStringer]

Just can't answer a simple question because the saliva is still dripping on your keyboard, can you? Don't bother with answer--tired of this garbage.

I have no interest in answering how the training requirements were changed in NC by the new revisions of your carry laws. I dismiss it out of hand, as any training requirement to exercise a God-given right is offensive to me.

The part of your first post that I chose to address is relevant to all gun-owners everywhere though. It's even relevant to non-gun-owners considering becoming new gun-owners. You brought up a part of the new NC revisions that you deem deficient, even though federal law is what controls the issues you raised. And then you said, "comments are welcome."

Why you feel that I should not be able to sell or otherwise transfer a weapon that I, and only I own, without involving an FFL that simply complicates and inserts government between me and the buyer is something I will never understand. You said comments were welcome. I commented. That wasn't "drool" that you perceived. It was tears for the death of my country, demonstrated by people who don't understand what freedom means anymore, like you, and spew gun-grabber rhetoric and then call freedom-speak "garbage." Bite me.

Blues

 

[S&W645]

I'm guessing from your post that you are unfamiliar with NYS concealed carry laws.

The NY State law, unlike many of the nanny gun states, does not contain restrictions on carry in a car, a church, a government building. a restaurant, a bar, sporting event, a parade, and on and on and on.

Here we are in the second decade of the 21st century and there are still states that prohibit concealed carry in a bar, a church, a medical facility, a sporting event, and any government building. WTF, those states shouldn't allow people they don't think are mature enough to carry a weapon a permit to carry one in the first place.

Maybe the day will come when the SC Nanny state government gives you a note so you can carry in a Church, government building, or (10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed

And some day maybe NYS will allow you to own a gun that contains more than 10 rounds. Your laws are nowhere near perfect just like many other states' laws are nowhere near perfect. Florida has restrictions on carry in gov't buildings. Florida has restrictions on hospital carry where there is mental health treatment. But the doctor's office, up to the doctor. Resturaunt carry is fine here unless you are in the bar area. And we can have >10 round mags with more than 7 rounds in them. Plus there is no registration of guns like NYS. And that evil rigth there is one of the worse ones you can ever have. Registration leads to confiscation.

 

[nogods]

And some day maybe NYS will allow you to own a gun that contains more than 10 rounds. Your laws are nowhere near perfect just like many other states' laws are nowhere near perfect. Florida has restrictions on carry in gov't buildings. Florida has restrictions on hospital carry where there is mental health treatment. But the doctor's office, up to the doctor. Resturaunt carry is fine here unless you are in the bar area. And we can have >10 round mags with more than 7 rounds in them. Plus there is no registration of guns like NYS. And that evil rigth there is one of the worse ones you can ever have. Registration leads to confiscation.

Correct - most states have illogical and hopefully someday to be determined unconstitutional restrictions.

But ask yourself this.

If you need your weapon for self defense while in a bar area of a restaurant or a medical facility, is it better to have your weapon with you with just 10 rounds or better to have 18 rounds in your weapon locked in your car?

 

[whodat2710]

Correct - most states have illogical and hopefully someday to be determined unconstitutional restrictions.

But ask yourself this.

If you need your weapon for self defense while in a bar area of a restaurant or a medical facility, is it better to have your weapon with you with just 10 rounds or better to have 18 rounds in your weapon locked in your car?

This is a straw man argument that deflects from your original post about how gun friendly NY was compared to SC. "My restrictions are better than yours..." whatever, wake up. If you are satisfied with your states level of tyranny then it will not improve, and will probably increase ever so gradually.
-
We may have a few silly restrictions on where you can carry, but NONE on what you may buy, sell, own, carry, defend yourself/family/home with, amount of ammo, type of ammo etc. We have NO gun registration to tell the brown-shirts which home to hit first for confiscation. We have both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws which favor law abiding armed citizens over criminals. To even compare NY to a "gun friendly" state is state pride gone astray. Your argument is invalid.

 

[BluesStringer]

Your argument is invalid.

As per....well....always.

 

[whodat2710]

As per....well....always.

And I forgot to mention that little part about how we are at least changing things in the right direction, while nogods has to go register his BB gun.