Social Security Numbers and the BATFE

[Gordon Shumway]

Ever notice how many places REQUIRE you to give your SSN? Not just ask, but require it.

FYI

Agents for the BATFE, federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives are REQUIRED to have a "top secret clearance" because they look at gun owner's paperwork which has the SSN of the applicant.
(Straight from an agent's mouth.) Fact/ Confirmed

This week I was renewing my post office mailbox rent, and the post master told me that even she is not allowed to see anyone's SSN, and they don't ask for it.

I also confirmed that IRS employees are required to have TSC.

Now, why does every business demand that we list SSN on paperwork? Everything from bank accounts, investments, job applications, H&R Block, etc.

What if someone gets into your file and steals your SSN?

Why would you give your SSN to a anyone?

I guess it only matters to you if you have had identity theft.

 

[Dana1956]

It's not required when you fill out a 4473. You can if you want to, but you don't have to.

 

[Glockdude]

The last few times I have purchased firearms, the dealer only required the last four digits of my ssn.

 

[WB9IIE]

Now, why does every business demand that we list SSN on paperwork? Everything from bank accounts, investments, job applications, H&R Block, etc.

Banks, investment brokers, and H&R Block require your SSAN because they are handling financial transactions for you in one way, shape, or form. There are certain reporting criteria for banks and financial professionals. H&R Block needs it to fill out your federal tax filing, and state, too, if you elect to do both with them. Job applications need the information so they can do an e-Verify (those that do that) to see if you are eligable for a job in the U.S. After you are hired, the job provider needs your SSAN for tax reporting purposes for W-2 and other paperwork. Some employers also act as a financial agent when setting up your 401(K) or other retirement program. Everyone else that wants to see the SSAN can go away still WANTING.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Agents for the BATFE, federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives are REQUIRED to have a "top secret clearance" because they look at gun owner's paperwork which has the SSN of the applicant.
(Straight from an agent's mouth.) Fact/ Confirmed

Please tell me you did not believe them. Military pay clerks have access to every social security number of every member of their particular branch of service + DOB + address + phone number and require nothing more than the basic background check required for entry into the service - about the same as a kindergarten school teacher.

I have access to everyone's social security number in my command + driver's license numbers, state and expiration + DOB + address and phone number. I am not required to have a TS security clearance.

 

[Military Man]

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice. Fed. Law states that States can require the ss# for drivers license and other things to go after dead beat parents for child support. The number is coming off the Military ID card. I have a new ID card and it is not on it. Will take about 4 years for it to be off all cards.

Spent about 20 minutes in jail for not wearing the seat belt and refusing to pay the fine. Jailer was highly upset when I would not give my ss number. Showed him the law.He was pissed, smiles. Asked him if he wanted to talk to a federal judge.

DISCLOSURE OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS

PL 93-579 CH 7 (FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT)
It shall be unlawful for any federal, state or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit or privilege provided by law because of such individuals refusal to disclose his social security number.
The provisions of above shall not apply to any disclosure which is required by Federal Statute.
Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary. By what statutory such number is solicited and what uses will be made of it.

FEDERAL FELONY
42 U.S.C. 408
Whoever discloses, uses or compels the disclosure of the social security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United States; shall be quilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be fined under title 18 U.S.C. or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.


18 U.S.C. 124 Conspiracy Against Rights.
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten or intimidate any person in any state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or in the District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States or because of his having so exercised the same, Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

I have a copy of this in my wallet to show. This usualy shuts them up.
Especialy public schools.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice. Fed. Law states that States can require the ss# for drivers license and other things to go after dead beat parents for child support.

Did you mean to say that States can NOT require the SS# for driver's licenses and other things? You wrote CAN require, but that seems to conflict with the Federal statute that you posted. Thank you for posting the Federal statute too!

 

[Military Man]

Did you mean to say that States can NOT require the SS# for driver's licenses and other things? You wrote CAN require, but that seems to conflict with the Federal statute that you posted. Thank you for posting the Federal statute too!

I think it is usc 42 where states can require the ss# in order to get drivers license so they can go after dead beat parents that do not pay child support. States that were not requiring the ss# could not make that number public, could only use to go after dead beat parents. During his last year in the White House signed a bill out lawing the states use of the ss# as an identifier on drivers licenses and ID cards. States,counties and cities now have to redact the ss# and other personal info on official documents before they can give/sell them Also reread pl93-579 that I posted

AGAIN I AM NOT A LAWYER, BUT I CAN READ

 

[ccwaz]

Good luck getting your next gun if you refuse. I agree, it is and should be illegal. But again, good luck, and I mean it sincerely.

 

[Seeya]

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice. Fed. Law states that States can require the ss# for drivers license and other things to go after dead beat parents for child support. The number is coming off the Military ID card. I have a new ID card and it is not on it. Will take about 4 years for it to be off all cards.

Spent about 20 minutes in jail for not wearing the seat belt and refusing to pay the fine. Jailer was highly upset when I would not give my ss number. Showed him the law.He was pissed, smiles. Asked him if he wanted to talk to a federal judge.

DISCLOSURE OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS

PL 93-579 CH 7 (FEDERAL PRIVACY ACT)
It shall be unlawful for any federal, state or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit or privilege provided by law because of such individuals refusal to disclose his social security number.
The provisions of above shall not apply to any disclosure which is required by Federal Statute.
Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary. By what statutory such number is solicited and what uses will be made of it.

FEDERAL FELONY
42 U.S.C. 408
Whoever discloses, uses or compels the disclosure of the social security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United States; shall be quilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be fined under title 18 U.S.C. or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.


18 U.S.C. 124 Conspiracy Against Rights.
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten or intimidate any person in any state, territory, commonwealth, possession, or in the District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States or because of his having so exercised the same, Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

I have a copy of this in my wallet to show. This usualy shuts them up.
Especialy public schools.

I think you mean USC title 18 chapter 13 241 must be a typo lol. Don't forget USC 18, 13,242 and Title 42 1983 civil lawsuit for same.

 

[longslide10]

I've often wondered why too and the fact we give them up so nonchalantly. What irritates the hell out of me is when online applications ask you for them. I assume they use it to discriminate due to age or bad credit or whatever they feel like. I always use 9 of the same number when I have to fill it in. I got in the habit of telling prospective employers they will get my SSN upon an agreement / letter of hire and then they can proceed with background check. The SSN was never intended to be used as a source of identification but it ties you to everything.

 

[Wyldekard]

In the last 90 days I have purchased a tactical shotgun and a pistol without having given my SSN. The exact wording of ATF Form 4473 item 8: Social Security Number (Optional, but will help prevent misidentification). The "optional" is in bold on the form, not just emphasis by me.

 

[JohnD13]

The last three times I did not put my social security number on the 4473, the "instant check" came back with a dely. The last purchase I made, I put the number down, and like magic, no delay! It's just another game.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Remember 20 yrs ago when you couldn't get checks for your checking account unless your SSN was printed with your name? And businesses refused to take checks without the SSN printed.

e.g. Sure H&R Block is a tax filing outfit, but their people can literally steal your identity with no effort whatsoever. Ditto on any other business. Why does the lumber yard demand your SSN on a job application?

I think most of us realize WHY all those businesses want our SSN. But the fact remains that when we give it, almost any employee of that business has access to the files. Yet, the feds require security clearance.

You haven't had fun until you have been to identity theft hell.

It consumes everything you have and is everlasting.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

The last three times I did not put my social security number on the 4473, the "instant check" came back with a dely. The last purchase I made, I put the number down, and like magic, no delay! It's just another game.

BATFE says that CCW holders don't require a phoned-in background check.

 

[Dana1956]

Once again...I work in a sporting goods store. I sell guns. I have people fill out the 4473. They do not have to put down their SSN. They can if they want to. And, not putting it down does not result in a delay. Delays happen sometimes when the NICS officer finds that there may a discrepancy in the application. Such as someone with the same name. Maybe someone stole your identity...any number of things. They want more time to investigate. If this happens time after time then you have the right to apply for a unique ID number that can be used to get you right through when applying for a firearm.

 

[Dana1956]

In Ohio it doesn't matter if you have a CCW or not. ANYONE who purchases a gun other than a muzzleloader gets a phoned in background check. I would think that would be nationwide.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

In Ohio it doesn't matter if you have a CCW or not. ANYONE who purchases a gun other than a muzzleloader gets a phoned in background check. I would think that would be nationwide.

That's not federal.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Once again...I work in a sporting goods store. I sell guns. I have people fill out the 4473. They do not have to put down their SSN. They can if they want to. .

But some people do use them, and the BATFE agents have top secret clearance because of it.

Yet the point is.....every mom and pop business thinks they have a right to your personal security information which can be nicked by any of their people.

 

[NavyLCDR]

BATFE says that CCW holders don't require a phoned-in background check.

In Ohio it doesn't matter if you have a CCW or not. ANYONE who purchases a gun other than a muzzleloader gets a phoned in background check. I would think that would be nationwide

That's not federal.

Gordon,
Please read pages 54-55 of this document:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

A NICS check is required for all purchases of firearms from dealers unless that state's permit meets certain requirments specified in Federal law, including being less than 5 years old. Only a few states' permits meet those requirements. All transactions in all other states not meeting those requirements must go through NICS. A CCW permit DOES NOT automatically exempt a person from the NICS check.

But some people do use them, and the BATFE agents have top secret clearance because of it.

Are you that gullible and/or do you think we are that gullible? You have no idea the government resources and expense required to perform a Top Secret security clearance on a person. The government is not going to waste those resources so that a BATFE agent can see a social security number on an unclassified document that ordinary Joe Citizen has access to. Why don't FFLs require Top Secret security clearances?!? Why are form 4473s with SSNs on them not marked as TOP SECRET documents and locked up and controlled in accordance with classified document storage requirements?

If you truly believe that a BATFE agent must have a Top Secret security clearance to view a form 4473 with an SSN on it, send me $100 in the mail and when your check clears I will send you the deed to the Golden Gate Bridge.