Sig p227 sas gen2
- Thread starter smygee
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bofh
Banned
Please post pictures.
.45 ACP, right? Gold Dot, Federal HST (not Hydra Shok) and Hornady Critical Duty are all standard carry loads for law enforcement that fulfill the FBI ballistics requirements for self defense (minimum 12 inch penetration in ballistics gel under various circumstances). My favorite is Federal HST, as it expands massively. You can buy self defense ammo for a decent price at sgammo.com.
.45 ACP, right? Gold Dot, Federal HST (not Hydra Shok) and Hornady Critical Duty are all standard carry loads for law enforcement that fulfill the FBI ballistics requirements for self defense (minimum 12 inch penetration in ballistics gel under various circumstances). My favorite is Federal HST, as it expands massively. You can buy self defense ammo for a decent price at sgammo.com.
bowserb
New member
The P227 has turned my 1911 into a safe queen. E2 grip, 10+1 rounds, and the best shooting handgun I have ever shot. And it shoots everything I have tried reliably. I am all for using the best ammo, but I don't regard ammo as a status symbol. I saw some YouTube tests of Winchester white box hollowpoints, and my eyes were opened. You can search and decide for yourself. I found the ammo to feed reliably, even from the 14 round mags, and while I have no scientific data, it seems to shoot just like the WWB FMJ.
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bofh
Banned
Just a quick price comparison: Link Removed has Winchester White Box .45 ACP 230 gr. JHP for $37.49 per box (50 rounds), while Link Removed has Federal HST .45 ACP 230 gr. JHP LE ammo (P45HST2) for $32.95 per box (50 rounds). The Federal HST is cheaper and better. Here is the FBI test data. Note that Federal HST is the second-generation Hydra Shok bullet, also known as Hydra Shok Two (HST).
bowserb
New member
If that were typical, it would be no contest. I see the Winchester for $19 for fifty rounds and cheaper still for 100 or 500, I am not selling WWB, but I still wouldn't resort to selective price shopping to prove a point. Just go to ammoseek.com to compare prices. BTW, the FBI proved they needed 10mm, then they proved they only needed .40, then most recently they proved they require only 9mm.
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bofh
Banned
OK, I went to ammoseek and $36 per box is the cheapest Winchester White Box JHP listed. You probably mean $19 per box for Winchester White Box FMJ.
I am not sure what your point is about the FBI's ammo selection, but I was referring to the Link Removed that originated with the IWBA. It is independent from caliber choice and focuses on soft tissue penetration with and without intermediate barriers. It is commonly used for service ammunition selection by law enforcement agencies.
Below, you can find the FBI ballistics protocol data for Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot for common service calibers.
Link RemovedLink Removed
bowserb
New member
My mistake. I had selected "Hunting/Defense" at ammoseek, as round type and didn't notice that FMJ rounds were included. The WWB JHP for 50 rounds was $21.50. Again, I am not pushing WWB hollowpoints, just suggesting that one do his own research, as there is a lot of unbiased information available now--at least until Kerry and the UN take over the Internet and ban firearms information. The FBI is not the only resource for ammo testing. Remember, the FBI is still part of the federal government! Personally, I find the FBI penetration standard to be excessive and likely to result in a bullet going through the target and causing collateral damage or injuries. Similarly, I've seen Federal's tests that make their Guard Dog EFMJ round look like the best of all worlds, and I've seen tests of that round that show that it is dangerously inconsistent. Do your own research and decide for yourself. Whatever you buy, you should test in your gun enough to be sure that it functions properly and that you know what it will do in your hands. I expect premium ammo to be superior to a less expensive product. I just need to know that the higher quality translates to a round that will do a better job of defense for me and my family.
Luckily for the function part, after eight months of various range shooting, I am pretty confident in the P227. It was based on the single stack P220, a proven design, and the E2 grip wrapped around the staggered magazine provides for me the best grip I have even handled. My own testing was of every kind of ammo I could find, including some mystery reman JHP, and nothing failed to function in any way. My first shots from a beanbag rest told me the gun itself is capable of very precise shooting, and I was going to be the weak link in the chain. All kinds of FMJ and JHP, including Freedom Munitions remanufactured JHP, all worked perfectly from full magazines, including the 14 round mags. Like I said, the P227 caused me to put the 1911 (Colt XSE) into the safe. It was most most precise shooting until the P227, which shoots better for me, carries 2 or 6 more rounds, and weighs less. I think the marines would have done better to look at the P227 instead of specifying a new 1911.
Again, do your own research.
bofh
Banned
Are you sure you are looking at .45 ACP WWB JHP?
So, you are discounting self defense rounds that the majority of law enforcement carries in this country, because the ballistic test protocol is used by the FBI? This makes zero sense.
Why do you think that the FBI/IWBA standard for penetration is excessive? Ballistic gelatin is an analog (in terms of density) to human soft tissue, but not of a human body that has skin and bones. A bullet that penetrates 12 inches in ballistic gelatin will NOT penetrate 12 inches in a human body. Also, when a bullet over-penetrates, the amount of energy it has is very low. Under-penetration, however, may simply not stop the threat as quickly or not at all. You are putting yourself in danger and have to shoot more rounds.
In any case, the highest danger comes from misses and not from over-penetration.
Federal's Guard Dog EFMJ is NOT a service round. Federal HST is. If you see inconsistency with Federal Guard Dog EFMJ, which is an entirely different design, than this is not indicative of inconsistency with Federal HST. I rather stick with proven service rounds than experiment with exotic ammunition.
Premium ammunition and less expensive ammunition are not exclusive, which was my original point. If you go to www.sgammo.com and select your caliber of choice, you will find premium ammunition that is also less expensive ammunition. There are also other sources that sell law enforcement ammunition at low prices.
I leave you with this - Self Defense & The Over Penetration Myth | TheYankeeMarshal:
So, you are discounting self defense rounds that the majority of law enforcement carries in this country, because the ballistic test protocol is used by the FBI? This makes zero sense.
Why do you think that the FBI/IWBA standard for penetration is excessive? Ballistic gelatin is an analog (in terms of density) to human soft tissue, but not of a human body that has skin and bones. A bullet that penetrates 12 inches in ballistic gelatin will NOT penetrate 12 inches in a human body. Also, when a bullet over-penetrates, the amount of energy it has is very low. Under-penetration, however, may simply not stop the threat as quickly or not at all. You are putting yourself in danger and have to shoot more rounds.
In any case, the highest danger comes from misses and not from over-penetration.
Federal's Guard Dog EFMJ is NOT a service round. Federal HST is. If you see inconsistency with Federal Guard Dog EFMJ, which is an entirely different design, than this is not indicative of inconsistency with Federal HST. I rather stick with proven service rounds than experiment with exotic ammunition.
Premium ammunition and less expensive ammunition are not exclusive, which was my original point. If you go to www.sgammo.com and select your caliber of choice, you will find premium ammunition that is also less expensive ammunition. There are also other sources that sell law enforcement ammunition at low prices.
I leave you with this - Self Defense & The Over Penetration Myth | TheYankeeMarshal:
mojoman
New member
Man I really would like to have one of those, can you change out those grip for some G10 Hogue grip?
