Should staff and teachers be able to carry in Schools?


bhadcock

New member
I am interested in what people think in regards to if staff and teachers should have the right to be able to CCW in a school setting? My state does not support this and I know a few other states in the last year have made it possible for school districts to make their own decision and decide upon whether or not for it. Thanks.
 

Babarock

New member
I think it should be up to the individual teacher or staff member. I also think all staff should have the appropriate training regardless of their choice so they may handle situations as they arise.
 

kelcarry

New member
I think it should be up to the individual teacher or staff member. I also think all staff should have the appropriate training regardless of their choice so they may handle situations as they arise.

So I guess the school system should now go into the firearm sales and monthly PAID proficiency training business and when SWAT is needed and there is a shooting and someone comes around a corner in a corridor, they should wait to be sure they see his or her license to carry. Just saying there is a bad side to this as if the nut cases who have been the cause of all the paranoia will change their mind about unloading their arms on anyone, including that "staff member with appropriate training"---what exactly does appropriate training mean anyway?--they are not going to be highly trained police officers--they are still only highly trained educators
 
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ezkl2230

Guest
So I guess the school system should now go into the firearm sales and monthly PAID proficiency training business and when SWAT is needed and there is a shooting and someone comes around a corner in a corridor, they should wait to be sure they see his or her license to carry. Just saying there is a bad side to this as if the nut cases who have been the cause of all the paranoia will change their mind about unloading their arms on anyone, including that "staff member with appropriate training"---what exactly does appropriate training mean anyway?--they are not going to be highly trained police officers--they are still only highly trained educators

Interesting response. You ask for the opinions of others, then launch into a rant when you don't get the response you wanted

This question has been addressed in several threads over the years, which you already know, having been on this forum since 2009. You also know that the default response of the majority of forum members is going to lean toward arming teachers and staff members.

Fact - it takes time for police to arrive - and then effect an entry - to active shooter events. In Grand Rapids, MI, cops have told teachers they need to hold out for at least 10 minutes before they can expect help. The AVERAGE 911 response time here is 18 minutes.

Fact - according to tactical experts who have reviewed the major mass shooting events, every minute it takes for police to arrive on scene and effect an entry results in upwards of 7 casualties. Police arrived at Sandy Hook in something like 4 minutes, by which time most of the killing had already been done.

Fact - according to research done by Don Kates, civilians use their firearms in lawful self defense between two and three million times a year (in over 98% of these cases the firearm is never actually fired, just displayed), yet, according to Gary Kleck's research, while civilians kill upwards of 3,000 bad guys in any given year (more than police kill), in only 2% of shootings do they account for killing someone who turns out to be innocent, while police kill someone who turns out to be innocent in 11% of their shootings - 5-1/2 times more than supposedly untrained, unqualified civilians.

So you tell me: based on the objective data, not your own preconceived and misinformed notions, who is more likely to protect our children while exercising the necessary care to insure that innocent bystanders don't become innocent victims?

EDITED

I need to add one more thought. I hear many refer to schools as "sacred places of learning." From that they go on to extrapolate that if a place is sacred, then any violence that takes place there is a desecration. They follow that train of thought to the conclusion that no weapons must be carried in a sacred place.

I beg to differ.

That which is sacred is worthy of our defense.

Life is sacred, therefore it is worthy of defense. My faith is sacred, therefore it is worthy of defense. My family is sacred, therefore it is worthy of defense. If education is sacred, then it, too, is worthy of defense. Since life, family, and education are all to be found in a school, a school is worthy of defense.

To FAIL to defend it is a desecration of everything sacred.
 

foxytwo

New member
If teachers were armed there would be fewer school shootings, or at the least fewer fatalities. More guns less crime.
 

Babarock

New member
So I guess the school system should now go into the firearm sales and monthly PAID proficiency training business and when SWAT is needed and there is a shooting and someone comes around a corner in a corridor, they should wait to be sure they see his or her license to carry. Just saying there is a bad side to this as if the nut cases who have been the cause of all the paranoia will change their mind about unloading their arms on anyone, including that "staff member with appropriate training"---what exactly does appropriate training mean anyway?--they are not going to be highly trained police officers--they are still only highly trained educators
Go back, read my reply and take a deep breath.

The individual should be able to make the choice if they want to carry or not - very 2A don't you think? Notice I didn't say firearms training nor SWAT training nor tactical. I didn't say REQUIRED. The individual should avail themselves of training on how to manage a classroom, how to calm an upset child, how to deescalate a situation, how to evade and if they choose to carry - how to secure their firearm and effectively use it to protect the children under their care and themselves.
 

Captian Carry

New member
Hell ya teachers and school personal should be able to carry in or at a school. I'm already planning to put my little ones in a private school where the school personal does carry.
 

the dark

New member
So I guess the school system should now go into the firearm sales and monthly PAID proficiency training business and when SWAT is needed and there is a shooting and someone comes around a corner in a corridor, they should wait to be sure they see his or her license to carry. Just saying there is a bad side to this as if the nut cases who have been the cause of all the paranoia will change their mind about unloading their arms on anyone, including that "staff member with appropriate training"---what exactly does appropriate training mean anyway?--they are not going to be highly trained police officers--they are still only highly trained educators

I would start by saying appropriate training means that they are trained to stay out of the halls, they are not seeking the active shooter, they are not clearing the building. They barricade in and if the shooter enters the room they are armed and, thus, in a position to defend themselves and their students with lethal force. SWAT is trained to announce upon entering a room in active shooter situations, so appropriate training also means to disarm in the face of such an announcement.

As an educator who is disarmed on the job, that would be a start.
 
My wife can, and does, carry to her school. She must leave it locked in her vehicle in the parking lot. Each of our schools has a police officer on duty everyday.
 
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ezkl2230

Guest
Teachers in Delton Kellogg schools in Barry County, MI, can become Sheriff reservists, and, once they have gone through the training, carry in school. In fact, the Barry County Sheriff is actively recruiting teachers for this very reason.
 

Jhorton71

New member
Someone is already carrying on the campuses in Louisiana. We use off duty officers in uniform. So here is my solution. Each Parish has a reserve deputy division in the sheriff dept. Teachers could sign up for that and receive a slight bump in pay, less than what they pay resource officers since they are already getting a teachers salary. They would have to go through the training with the sheriff dept and would be just as competent as a police officer and possibly more in some cases. This would be optional and would actually put more resource officers on campus than just the one or 2 that the Sheriff dept sends.
 
I believe we need to do away with the "gun free zone". AKA, "Armed mental patient welcome because no one will be able to resist zone". We do this and naturally the individuals who would carry on a regular basis would do so in these places. Namely teachers, administrators etc in schools. I would say that typically people who carry actually seek out at least minimal training but I would argue that no training is required nor should be required to excercise the 2nd amendment. I preceive the legally armed community as a whole to be fairly competent (of course there are always the questionable individuals such as a recently banned member of this forum) We do not need some big movement to implement concealed carry in schools. We also do not need to make a big deal out of it by requiring all sorts of training in order to do so. Lets be honest, the minority of the teachers would be carrying anyways due to a staggering majority being democrats/liberals who on average for some reason associate them selves with the anti gun crowd.
 

CarryNM

New member
In the city where My Wife and I reside,There are a number of staff members at the schools that are CC licensed, and do carry during school hours. They are from all walks of life including maintenance , teachers , and the janitorial staff. They are not publicized in any way, and kept as low key as possible. Even though we have no children in school here I am behind them fully. IT IS a GOOD thing.
 

s0nspark

Talk is Cheap!!
So I guess the school system should now go into the firearm sales and monthly PAID proficiency training business and when SWAT is needed and there is a shooting and someone comes around a corner in a corridor, they should wait to be sure they see his or her license to carry. Just saying there is a bad side to this as if the nut cases who have been the cause of all the paranoia will change their mind about unloading their arms on anyone, including that "staff member with appropriate training"---what exactly does appropriate training mean anyway?--they are not going to be highly trained police officers--they are still only highly trained educators

Putting aside the comment about "highly trained police officers" (some are, many simply are not) ... why is it that people assume that if you carry concealed that this automatically means you are some kind of police/military/ninja wannabe?

The best way to avoid trouble is, of course, to AVOID it so that is always preferable. If that can't be done then a concealed firearm gives you reasonable means to protect life instead of just being a victim. That doesn't mean one should start trying to clear the building or search out an aggressor - concealed carry classes, in my state at least, are very clear about what actions a civilian is legally able to take.

As to the original question, I believe everyone eligible to carry concealed who desires to do so should be allowed to... period. School, church, work, everywhere. Those whose intend to do harm have no respect for laws or gun-free zones - it is high time law-abiding citizens stopped being rendered defenseless by such laws.
 

cluznar

New member
Were teachers armed and trained in the use of firearms 26 people may not have died at Sandy Hook. The principal who was unarmed tried to stop the shooter and was killed. If that principal had a good handgun and knew how to use it she may have saved many lives.

Without a doubt teachers should be allowed to conceal carry at school, it could save many lives. Those teachers that wish to CCW should do as any other citizen in applying for a CCW permit. They should also go to shooting ranges and shoot enough to be proficient with their pistol.
 

bakkaotaku

New member
I feel that any teacher who has been properly trained, feels comfortable with their weapon, and is of a sound mind should be able to carry concealed on school grounds. Having properly trained and armed teachers in our schools can only benefit us in the safety of our children.
 

dogshawred

New member
Ohio currently has legislation pending that will reduce the number of GFZ and has adopted the policy of allowing school districts to determine if their staff can CCW.
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The Buckeye Firearms Association has sponsored training for educators to carry concealed and has been inundated with sign ups for the course. Many have completed the course and are now carrying in their respective schools.
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Having a healthy outlook on protecting our children will only succeed when the public sees that their leaders in government have their best interest at heart and willingly demonstrate that sentiment through their actions. Those willing to take those actions need our support and those who attempt to thwart them need to be relieved of their jobs. Be informed and involved, that is your job as a citizen.
 

Firefighterchen

OC for Tactical Advantage
Teachers all ready have the Right to bear arms. The government has oppressed their Rights. Who are we to give or oppress permission for someone else to carry?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 

wolf_fire

New member
Teachers, by law, are considered loco parentis. In other words they are the legal guardian of your children when they are in their care. I ask all parents in this forum, do you carry when around your children? Do you protect with up to and including lethal force if necessary? If the answer to these questions is yes, then how dare anyone on this forum even for one moment suggest that your children deserve less just because they are at school.

Someone mentioned, forget all the hoopla about training and what we should or shouldn't do to allow teachers to carry. Do one thing and one thing alone. Remove the GFZ restriction of our 2A rights. Allow teachers to defend themselves and more importantly defend those children in their care in case another Newtown, Columbine, Chardin, Virginia Tech, etc. happens. We owe it to the generation that is being reared to be able to survive and be defended.

For what it is worth, I am a teacher, I am a military veteran, I am a Reservist in our Sheriff's Department, I am a Glock Armorer and the place I am least secure in my daily life is at the school I teach because the government has disarmed me. It's sad but true.
 

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