Should I Help A Stranger In Trouble?

[BillG174]

I have had my Conceal Carry License for 3 months. On the various Glock and gun forums that I belong to, I read many threads and posts referring to news stories telling of good samaritan CC people drawing their gun to help a stranger in trouble by shooting the bad guy or holding him until the police arrive. The thread posts that follow these stories congratulate the CC person for stepping up to the plate by getting involved to help or save a stranger. Some of the posters can’t understand why CC people don’t step in to help.

I have read several articles and books that caution a CC person from becoming involved as you usually do not know all of the details of the situation. Also, is the CC person ready to accept the possibility of getting sued or getting killed for drawing his gun to help a stranger? Many sources recommend you only defend yourself or your loved ones - this is what I am leaning toward.

The article link below found on the Kansas Concealed Carry forum titled “Dangers In Intervention” by Evan Marshall is excellent and gives a person a lot to think about. I recommend reading it. Evan Marshall is a man who knows whereof he speaks. Heed his words, and learn from them.

Commentary by Evan Marshall

With all of the above said what are your thoughts and comments. Should I help a stranger in trouble? Thanks.

 

[Deanimator]

Should I help a stranger in trouble? Thanks.

1. I'm not a cop.
2. I don't want to be a cop.
3. I don't want to do the things that cops do.
4. I don't want people to think I'm a cop.

That being said, would I intervene to "protect" somebody?

It depends.

If somebody's LIFE is in immediate and credible danger? Possibly.

But I'd HAVE to know ABSOLUTELY what the situation was.

A guy shooting toddlers at Santa's Village at the mall, screaming "Allahu akhbar!"? - Yes
An armed robbery in a store? - Possibly
Two strangers fighting? - No
A domestic violence situation? - HELL no

Remember, you DON'T have:

• qualified immunity
• a union lawyer
• the automatic presumption of veracity

If you don't know 100% what's going on (and even if you do), call the cops.

And regarding domestic violence situations, no good almost EVER comes from intervening directly in those kinds of incidents. I've seen FAR too many women who either refuse to leave, or keep coming back, and who keep protecting the guys who beat their brains out. You're not protecting her from him. You're protecting her from herself, and that almost NEVER works out. Let the cops deal with it.

 

[kelcarry]

Alter Ego, a hallmark of many firearm laws relating to CC and defense, has a very goody, goody two shoe feel when you read it and when it was first put on the books in many states. The idea that you can come to someone's aid who is in (what you presume to be) imminent danger of death or great bodily injury, as if that person is you who is in danger, is commendable. The trouble is that when it is you---you know it for certain. Yes there is some presumption on your part but it is you who are intimately involved and can at least make a reasonable assumption about your life and well-being. When it comes to strangers and situations that you begin to see from afar and are not involved and do not know who, what , where, why or how all of this started or is where it is now, you can easily make a big mistake even though you think you are acting correctly. There is just no really good way to know for certain whether you intervention is on the side of right or not and therein lies the legal problem, both criminal and civil. To the degree that third party immunity to prosecution criminally or civilly is part of the law still leaves open a big window of chaos in your life for trying to do the right thing.

 

[Bikenut]

A concealed carry permit is NOT Superman's cape.

A concealed carry permit does NOT make you your brother's keeper.

A concealed carry permit only allows you to legally carry a concealed gun... you still have the same possible physical dangers and possible civil liabilities that can arise from intervening that you had before you carried a gun.

So... ask yourself... would you have come to the aid of that person if you didn't have a concealed carry permit and you weren't carrying a gun?

 

[Stan45]

I first thought is how good looking is she.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

In these cases always ask yourself "What would George Zimmerman do?".

Paul

 

[festus]

follow the law and do what is right...you have to be able to live with your decisions afterwards

 

[telpinaro]

1. I'm not a cop.
2. I don't want to be a cop.
3. I don't want to do the things that cops do.
4. I don't want people to think I'm a cop.

That being said, would I intervene to "protect" somebody?

It depends.

If somebody's LIFE is in immediate and credible danger? Possibly.

But I'd HAVE to know ABSOLUTELY what the situation was.

A guy shooting toddlers at Santa's Village at the mall, screaming "Allahu akhbar!"? - Yes
An armed robbery in a store? - Possibly
Two strangers fighting? - No
A domestic violence situation? - HELL no

Remember, you DON'T have:

• qualified immunity
• a union lawyer
• the automatic presumption of veracity

If you don't know 100% what's going on (and even if you do), call the cops.

And regarding domestic violence situations, no good almost EVER comes from intervening directly in those kinds of incidents. I've seen FAR too many women who either refuse to leave, or keep coming back, and who keep protecting the guys who beat their brains out. You're not protecting her from him. You're protecting her from herself, and that almost NEVER works out. Let the cops deal with it.

Add in rape and kidnapping (after ascertaining the kid isn't just being a brat) as a "yes" for me as well. Like you, everything else gets answered "possibly depending on the situation" or "I'll just call the cops."

 

[Nightmare45]

I carry a gun for the same reason a police officer carries, for my protection. I am not a police officer and I have no more responsibility to protect an individual than they do. Think about it.

 

[BC1]

If you don't know what's behind the confrontation you may find yourself supporting the bad guy or defending someone who deserves getting his bell rung. Stay out in most cases. Be prepared to pay an attorney when you don't. Only pull out that gun when the problem is so severe that you must risk ruining your life.

 

[longslide10]

Whether or not we carry we should always lend a hand when possible to those that need it. That's what being human is and it's the right thing to do. If we don't care for one another then who will? Goverment?

 

[longslide10]

Saw a video on here today where a Houston, TX man with a CCW permit came to the aid of a woman whose purse was being stolen by 2 individuals in a car. He got them out of the car and held them at gun point until police arrived to formally arrest them. As a citizen we can perform citizens arrest and just because you pull your firearm doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot. It all comes down to the particular scenario whether deadly force is needed or not. I don't know if it was Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper or one of the myriad of other gun gurus that said if you carry then you are obliged to help someone if their life is in danger.

 

[telpinaro]

Saw a video on here today where a Houston, TX man with a CCW permit came to the aid of a woman whose purse was being stolen by 2 individuals in a car. He got them out of the car and held them at gun point until police arrived to formally arrest them. As a citizen we can perform citizens arrest and just because you pull your firearm doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot. It all comes down to the particular scenario whether deadly force is needed or not. I don't know if it was Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper or one of the myriad of other gun gurus that said if you carry then you are obliged to help someone if their life is in danger.

Saw that video, too... pretty cool. But while a nice sentiment, I am definitely NOT obligated to help anyone. My priority is getting home to my family, which means I don't wind up in a hospital or jail. Yeah, sounds selfish, but I'm being selfish on behalf of my family. There are situations where I'd get involved, but not many. And I'd make sure I knew exactly what was going on before I did. Other than that I'll call the cops and be a good witness.

 

[Pir8fan]

Should I help a stranger in trouble? Thanks.

Keep in mind that if you get involved, you step into that person's shoes. If you help someone that was originally the aggressor and you didn't know it, you just became the aggressor in the eyes of the law. I tell my students to call 911 unless the threat is directed at them or their families. What you may see could be part of an ongoing dispute and you could easily be putting yourself in serious legal trouble. Personally, I practice what I preach. I carry ONLY to protect myself and my family.

 

[Pir8fan]

Whether or not we carry we should always lend a hand when possible to those that need it. That's what being human is and it's the right thing to do. If we don't care for one another then who will? Goverment?

In general, I agree completely but if we are carrying, the risks and potential consequences are so severe that we need to be absolutely certain that we are stepping in to help the right person. Personally, I will not intervene with a firearm unless I'm directly threatened or my family is directly threatened.

 

[whodat2710]

OK, Deanimator hit the nail on the head, and the follow-on comment about rape and kidnapping is a red herring. How do you know that the kid isn't off his Ritalin, or that the rape victim isn't someone into that role playing stuff. Too little info.

So the short answer to "Should I help someone in trouble?" from me would be "sure, just don't draw your gun"

 

[BC1]

Saw a video on here today where a Houston, TX man with a CCW permit came to the aid of a woman whose purse was being stolen by 2 individuals in a car. He got them out of the car and held them at gun point until police arrived to formally arrest them. As a citizen we can perform citizens arrest and just because you pull your firearm doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot. It all comes down to the particular scenario whether deadly force is needed or not. I don't know if it was Massad Ayoob, Jeff Cooper or one of the myriad of other gun gurus that said if you carry then you are obliged to help someone if their life is in danger.

I once had a fiend who smacked a stranger for pushing a girl to the ground. She got up and went batsh!t after my buddy. She was his wife. Go figure.

 

[OngoingFreedom]

"Those who think the mere display of a weapon will stop hostilities are naïve in the extreme."

And yet, this just isn't so. Not even CLOSE. But I think I understand the sentiment behind this statement.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[wolf_fire]

Add in rape and kidnapping (after ascertaining the kid isn't just being a brat) as a "yes" for me as well. Like you, everything else gets answered "possibly depending on the situation" or "I'll just call the cops."

And how do you know it's not just too young lovers in the back of that car having rough sex? You come blazing in trying to stop their love making, you will have two very ticked off people directed toward you.

Not trying to shoot you down Telpinaro... but without the safety net of the liability insurance that cops have, and the safety net of the societal ideology that "cops were just doing their job", if we are not cops, stay out of it.

 

[Deanimator]

"Those who think the mere display of a weapon will stop hostilities are naïve in the extreme."

And yet, this just isn't so. Not even CLOSE. But I think I understand the sentiment behind this statement.

It often does, but you'd BETTER have a plan B if it doesn't.

Mine is to shoot the relevant party(s).

That's why I have no intention of drawing my firearm unless I'm 100% certain I'm going to shoot somebody.

At that point, they MAY do something that causes me not to shoot, but by that point their window of opportunity for NOT getting shot is so tiny, that the odds of them avoiding getting shot are infinitesimal.

If I have to draw, I plan to shoot, without warning or hesitation, and until the threat is neutralized.

Anybody who doesn't like that should probably think REALLY carefully before they put me (or somebody whom I feel a duty to protect) in reasonable and immediate fear of life and limb.

Unfortunately, that kind of "person" tends to be about as reflective as a snapping turtle...