Shoot or Don't Shoot?
Camodude

Camodude

"Self Defense in OK"
Scenario A-- You're walking in a parking lot with 3 co-workers when a four door honda sedan drives up. You have your concealed carry weapon with you. The car stops in front of your group and out pop 3 juveniles and one of them has a handgun and demands your group to hand over wallets and purses. You position yourself for a clear shot that will be away for your party and no apparent collateral dangers down range.
Shoot or don't shoot?

Scenario B--Same as above only the juveniles only imply a weapon.
Shoot or don't shoot?
 

A: Definitely shoot

B: Draw your weapon and be prepared to shoot if the "implied" weapon tunrs out be an actual weapon.

bill
 
A. Shoot

B. What's the implication? If the BG has his hand in his jacket pocket, thrust forward pointing through the pocket, it may not be an empty threat. Hesitating to shoot may be a losing bet. I think this one comes down to the basic principle of self defense: If you truly believe the threat exists, react to it.
 
Next scenario..

You walk into a connivence store and you see a guy with his gun pulled on the store clerk and he's shouting obscenities. This has all the appearances of a robbery. His back is toward you and he doesn't notice you coming in.

Shoot or don't shoot?
 
Camodude said:
You walk into a connivence store and you see a guy with his gun pulled on the store clerk and he's shouting obscenities. This has all the appearances of a robbery. His back is toward you and he doesn't notice you coming in.

Shoot or don't shoot?
Click to expand...

Which state is the convience store located? New York or Texas? If the state has a Castle Doctrine is important?
 
In my State...

1. shoot until empty

2. walk away
- would not show my weapon unless I plan to take action
- if you pull and hold your weapon to confirm, they can have first shot , no Mexican Stand-offs
- force them to brandish weapon
- confirm for your target(s) and shoot away if confirmed
 
Under Florida Rules

Scenario A-- You're walking in a parking lot with 3 co-workers when a four door honda sedan drives up. You have your concealed carry weapon with you. The car stops in front of your group and out pop 3 juveniles and one of them has a handgun and demands your group to hand over wallets and purses. You position yourself for a clear shot that will be away for your party and no apparent collateral dangers down range.


Shoot or don't shoot?
  1. You are in a place where you have a legal right to be - public parking lot.
  2. You are meeting force with equal force - the felon has produced a method of generating death or serious bodily injury to any/everybody in the immediate area.
  3. You are dealing with an immediate forceable felony - armed robbery.
Fire at person with gun until threat is stopped, then start watching the hands of the rest of them.
Call 911.


Scenario B--Same as above only the juveniles only imply a weapon.


Shoot or don't shoot?
  1. You are in a place where you have a legal right to be - public parking lot.
  2. You are meeting force with equal force - the felon has NOT YET displayed a method of generating death or serious bodily injury to anybody in the immediate area.
  3. You are dealing with an immediate forceable felony - armed robbery.
Get the weapon ready, but out of sight to the vermin.
Start watching the hands of all of them.
Call 911.
 
Camodude said:
Scenario A-- You're walking in a parking lot with 3 co-workers when a four door honda sedan drives up. You have your concealed carry weapon with you. The car stops in front of your group and out pop 3 juveniles and one of them has a handgun and demands your group to hand over wallets and purses. You position yourself for a clear shot that will be away for your party and no apparent collateral dangers down range.
Shoot or don't shoot?

Scenario B--Same as above only the juveniles only imply a weapon.
Shoot or don't shoot?
Click to expand...

A - Depends....Shoot if you think you can win. BG already has gun drawn on you so you are way behind the curve....and you need to be able to present your weapon and fire well enough and long enough to eliminate the threat without getting shot first and without your co-workers getting shot. Calculate that risk vs. tossing them your wallet and hoping for best. Tough one that can only be determined by being there.

B - Depends....where are there hands? If hands in sight or not likely to be in a situation like on a gun in their pocket....I'd draw and issue verbal commands like "down on the ground"....If they comply or split....no need to shoot...anything else....fire away.
 
I am no expert by any means. But, I can only tell you what I would do in this situation. If the perp has a gun, and it's visible, then shoot the bastard as quickly as possible. Draw, aim, fire all your rounds and make them count. Do not think about anything except walking away, alive. On the other hand, if the perp has a knife, or another such non-gun weapon, and you can run away.... then run you butt of and get the hell out of there. In this case, it's not worth drawing your weapon. I think.. and that a big "think" .. I think I would only draw and kill if there was no other choice. You have to remember that they will try to hang you, and most likely succeed, if you had a way out and didn't use it. Only draw your gun if in your mind, there is no other choice. That's just my two cents. One more thing I just thought about. Survival skills not only mean walking out alive in a situation, but also mean covering all your bases in a court of law. We all know what the lawyers will try, in order to hang you. But, if you react from a purely self defense posture, then it's almost impossible to get a jury to find you guilty. So, in summing up on this question, I think if you act like a person who is cornered without any way out, except by deadly force, then that's your best bet. Of course, this is all conjecture and theory. Let's just hope that we are never tested..
 
Draw your weapon... aim at his head... shoot until dead. Never... ever take a chance when there is a gun involved. The perp, as soon as he draws, makes the decision to kill or be killed. Do not play the movie hero by saying anything.. take him out as fast as possible. Heaven is filled with idiots who couldn't react in any other way except to die. Rule of thumb.. if there is a gun visible... do what ever it takes to neutralize the person behind the gun.
 
1. Shoot Shoot !!... Then politely ask who want's to go next ?

2. Show him your Ace, Call his bluff,,, if he goes for it, Shoot Shoot !!
 
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ecos said:
Draw your weapon... aim at his head... shoot until dead. Never... ever take a chance when there is a gun involved. The perp, as soon as he draws, makes the decision to kill or be killed. Do not play the movie hero by saying anything.. take him out as fast as possible. Heaven is filled with idiots who couldn't react in any other way except to die. Rule of thumb.. if there is a gun visible... do what ever it takes to neutralize the person behind the gun.
Click to expand...

You say "Never... ever take a chance when there is a gun involved" yet you started by saying "Draw your weapon... aim at his head". Those are contradictory statements! I'll say never...every try for a head shot. Always go for center of mass (COM). I don't know where you took your training but I'll bet that you find that almost all of the "pros" (LEO's and instructors) agree with me.
 
I would most def shoot on the first scenario. The said juvinille has of course already presented himself or herself as a direct threat to your life, so I would take the shot if the stated conditions were present.

The second is a bit tricky and legally, you would have to prove that the implication of the weapon was threatening enough to make you fear for your life. I would not draw my gun (or let the BG know I have it in any way) or brandish it in any way if I was not going to shoot. I feel it is there for only one purpose. I would either try to run or if unable to, engage the immidiate threat (or whatever was not allowing me to flee).
 
Camodude said:
You walk into a connivence store and you see a guy with his gun pulled on the store clerk and he's shouting obscenities. This has all the appearances of a robbery. His back is toward you and he doesn't notice you coming in.

Shoot or don't shoot?
Click to expand...

In the state of Nevada to protect someone within your personal zone, they have to be a "friend" so to speak unless YOU are directly being threatened.
 
A. Depends?- on a couple of other variables such as presentation and proximity of the other BG's and innocents that may "NOT" be in your group.

B. Depends?- On other variables such as age, size an perceived abilities of the BG's- vs- age, size and abilities of GG's.

If the BG's are "very" aggressive, quite abit bigger than your smaller, older adult group you might have a "valid" reason to shoot.

On the other hand:

IF the BG's are "smaller", show NO weapons capable of causing "grave" bodily injury or death AND they don't really threaten aggressively, AND you and your group are trained in martial arts, former LEOs or ex-military, even former athletes, you could be in BIG trouble if you shoot.

Please REMEMBER-
There are NO black & white; cut-n-dry shoot or don't shoot scenarios.
 
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