Shoot Not To Kill?

Watch shows like "Lockup" and they use wooden bullets or bean bags from 12GA shotguns, and it leaves welts, probably hurts like a mother, but it does not incapacitate them and the can still continue to attack. With many departments carrying 9mm, it probably doesn't deliver as much force as a 12GA beanbag.

The same rational as why police departments don't carry beanbag as the first round in their shotguns, technology that exists today.

What if in a rush it does not line up exactly on the slide, so the actual bulled hits the hole? In which direction are bullet fragments going to spray from very near the muzzle?
 
The premise itself is exceptionally convenient but the problem isn't with finding less than lethal ways to shoot people it should be to find ways where offices are not going straight for their firearms instead of something else.
 
You don't shoot to kill or not to kill. You shoot to ELIMINATE THE THREAT. Once the threat is eliminated, stop shooting and call 911.
 
Ringo said:
Don't ever point a gun at anyone that you don't intend to kill.
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Correction: Don't ever point a gun at anyone you're not WILLING to kill.

If you put me in immediate and credible fear of life and limb, I'm going to use deadly force against you. That having been said, I couldn't care less whether you lived or died. I ONLY care that you stop doing whatever it was that you were doing that caused me to use deadly force against you. If you're trying to stab or shoot me, I don't care if you die right there or live to be a hundred, so long as you stop trying to stab or shoot me.
 
Statistically, 90% of the time you don't have to shoot at all. The mere presence of a firearm is enough. Now I don't know what happens when you present a gun that is wearing a clown nose to a bad guy. You might have to shoot a guy that is rolling around on the ground laughing at you.
 
NavyLCDR said:
Statements like that will work to get you convicted of murder. I don't intend to kill anyone. I intend to defend myself.
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Good for you, but I'm not into word games. Be assured that if I point my gun at anyone it will be to protect my life or the life of a loved one and I'm not "thinking" of wounding or stopping them. I don't carry a gun with the intention of wounding people who attack me and neither would I admit to such a stupid statement under any conditions. Words like that will not get me convicted of murder, irresponsible/reckless action will get me convicted of murder.
 
The second rule I was taught, "NEVER EVER point a gun at anyone unless you intend to use it!" I, and many others on this forum, hope and pray that the only time we draw our gun will be at the range or for cleaning! As I have seen other posters say, "I do not carry with intent to use it anymore than I have auto insurance because I intend on having an accident."
 
I was always trained to shoot to stop the aggressors attack. Draw and aim only on that you intend to destroy and cease firing when the attack has been stopped. Police may use less than lethal but I'm not going to play around and experiment. Simple as that for me. I don't want to draw but rest assured if I do the outcome has already been decided. By the attacker. And I agree 110 percent. I am shooting to terminate the attack because I fear death or grievous bodily harm. Quite simple....those are the rules of engagement in most every court in the land. I am not shooting to kill nor shooting to wound. I am shooting to terminate aggression. Period. Shooting to kill is murder. Shooting to wound is sheer folly. Be very cautious of what you say and do in the aftermath. I have been very fortunate in not having to fire a round in defense but have had good cause on more than one occasion to engage. Oh...and in training? Everyone in the class had their throats cut from 7 yards before they could draw and stop the threat. Remember that even a shot that stops your aggressors heart leaves them operational for 30 to 60 seconds especially if they are high.......get trained and know.
 
torontogunguy said:
I was always trained to shoot to stop the aggressors attack. Draw and aim only on that you intend to destroy and cease firing when the attack has been stopped. Police may use less than lethal but I'm not going to play around and experiment. Simple as that for me. I don't want to draw but rest assured if I do the outcome has already been decided. By the attacker. And I agree 110 percent. I am shooting to terminate the attack because I fear death or grievous bodily harm. Quite simple....those are the rules of engagement in most every court in the land. I am not shooting to kill nor shooting to wound. I am shooting to terminate aggression. Period. Shooting to kill is murder. Shooting to wound is sheer folly. Be very cautious of what you say and do in the aftermath. I have been very fortunate in not having to fire a round in defense but have had good cause on more than one occasion to engage. Oh...and in training? Everyone in the class had their throats cut from 7 yards before they could draw and stop the threat. Remember that even a shot that stops your aggressors heart leaves them operational for 30 to 60 seconds especially if they are high.......get trained and know.
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My view on also carrying 'less than lethal' weapons has two very serious drawbacks....

#1 - The decision to use your 'less than lethal' option was the wrong one, and it failed, and you are dead or serious injured, and now the bad guy has your gun. You are NOT going to have time for deploy both.

#2 - If you use lethal force and successfully stop the attack, will in compound your legal problems because 'you choose to shoot vs. the 'less than lethal' option you were carrying.
 
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