Shipping handguns
- Thread starter phil57
- Start date
itsmikey01
New member
I believe it has to go through an ffl, not positive. BTW I tried to send my handgun back to the MFG. for a repair and the only one that would touch it was Fed EX and then it would have cost me 125.00. Not to mention the gentleman looked at me like I had three heads when I told him it was a hand gun.
ANY firearm crossing state lines must go through a FFL. Period!
And you don't need to spend $125 doing either, nor do you need to overnight.
Send USPS or Fedx insured and sig required to FLL.
No FFL and you get caught.........you'll both do time.
You can also send USPS but the catch 22 is you cannot step foot on USPS property with a hand gun.......if your brother has an account the USPS can pick up at his addy.
DO NOT tell anyone what's in the box.............NONE of their F'ing business.
Just insure it for cost.
And you don't need to spend $125 doing either, nor do you need to overnight.
Send USPS or Fedx insured and sig required to FLL.
No FFL and you get caught.........you'll both do time.
You can also send USPS but the catch 22 is you cannot step foot on USPS property with a hand gun.......if your brother has an account the USPS can pick up at his addy.
DO NOT tell anyone what's in the box.............NONE of their F'ing business.
Just insure it for cost.
And needless to say DO NOT ship with ammo.
And no ammo can ship USPS.
You only need a receiving FFL, you do not need a shipping FFL.
If your receiving FFL will not receive from and individual, find another one.
Average charge for a transfer should be between $20 and $30........if he charges more........find another one.
And no ammo can ship USPS.
You only need a receiving FFL, you do not need a shipping FFL.
If your receiving FFL will not receive from and individual, find another one.
Average charge for a transfer should be between $20 and $30........if he charges more........find another one.
This is just stupid.......where do you get your info from?
He can ship USPS with account for $13 USPS Priority and it will be there in two days.
JohnLM
New member
Don't do it!! It will save you a lot of grief if something happens!:dirol:
sdprof
Active member
If he's shipping it to your home for HIS use while visiting, yes, he can ship it.
Handgun can't go by mail, must be by contract carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc).
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF
Handgun can't go by mail, must be by contract carrier (UPS, FedEx, etc).
Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Link Removed
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:
a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.
b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.
c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.
d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.
e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.
f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.
g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:
1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.
11.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.
11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.
11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.
11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:
a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or
b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.
11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.
11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.
11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
FFL TO FFL ship USPS all the time.
I have shipped USPS to FFLs on numerous occasions as stated above.
I dont' want to give anyone here wrong info--sorry.
But then......I dont' always follow the rules.
Link Removed
11.1 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
11.1.1 Definitions
The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:
a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.
b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.
c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.
d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.
e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.
f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.
g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:
1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
11.1.2 Handguns
Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 11.1.3 and 11.1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 11.1.4 and 11.1.6.
11.1.3 Authorized Persons
Subject to 11.1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties:
a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e.
11.1.4 Affidavit of Addressee
Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 11.1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee's official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:
a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 11.1.3c. through 11.1.3e, Authorized Persons.
11.1.5 Manufacturers and Dealers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
11.1.6 Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers
A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 11.1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.
11.1.7 FBI Crime Detection Bureaus
Handguns may be mailed without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6 if:
a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or
b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 11.1.3a. through 11.1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.
11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.
11.3 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 11.1.1e and 11.1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 11.1.1e.
11.4 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
FFL TO FFL ship USPS all the time.
I have shipped USPS to FFLs on numerous occasions as stated above.
I dont' want to give anyone here wrong info--sorry.
But then......I dont' always follow the rules.
koolbota's and spdracr39's advice will get someone put in Federal jail for illegally mailing a handgun. It is against Federal postal regulations for a private party to mail a handgun. Break the gun up and attempt to mail the frame as a "gun part" and now you are adding an additional intentional action to attempt to cover up violating the postal regulations. The mailing party must be an FFL to use USPS, and the recipient can not be just any unlicensed Joe Citizen. Also, the frame of the handgun is considered a firearm, with or without the slide attached to it.
The handgun must be shipped to an FFL in Michigan for transfer to phil57 in order to comply with Federal laws 18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5) and (b)(3).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
Phil57's brother can legally use FEDEX or UPS to ship the handgun to the FFL in Michigan; however FEDEX and UPS company policies require the shipper to notify them the shipment contains a handgun and their company policy requires handguns to be shipped by overnight service.
Phil57's brother can also take the handgun to an FFL of his choice and that FFL can mail the handgun to the FFL in Michigan using US Postal Service. This is probably the easiest and cheapest way to do it that complies with all laws.
The handgun must be shipped to an FFL in Michigan for transfer to phil57 in order to comply with Federal laws 18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5) and (b)(3).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
Phil57's brother can legally use FEDEX or UPS to ship the handgun to the FFL in Michigan; however FEDEX and UPS company policies require the shipper to notify them the shipment contains a handgun and their company policy requires handguns to be shipped by overnight service.
Phil57's brother can also take the handgun to an FFL of his choice and that FFL can mail the handgun to the FFL in Michigan using US Postal Service. This is probably the easiest and cheapest way to do it that complies with all laws.
Guess I'll add a disclaimer that I have not attempted this but it is what my local LGS/FFL told me could be done. Apologies if the info is incorrect. Perhaps I misunderstood what he was telling me. After further research it is clearly black and white wrong to call it parts. Thanks Navy for setting me straight
I don't have policy handy, but those with an FFL don't have to ship overnight service. So while you may not "need" a shipping FFL to be legal, in practice you'll want to use one. If the FFL pays $15-20 to ship (since they have better options), and charges you a $20 fee to do so ($35-40 total), it's still WAY cheaper than any overnight service you might need to use. I was contemplating selling my 1911 a few months ago on an gunbroker.com, but decided to try locally first for this reason alone. The overnight services for this purpose that I looked at were $100+. It's one of those technicalities that makes it impractical for a non-FFL to ship a handgun.
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Section 3.6, Page 5:
FedEx Express Terms and Conditions and FedEx Ground Tariff
FedEx Express Terms and Conditions and FedEx Ground Tariff
You were correct about one thing. You didn't have UPS and FEDEX policies handy. I do.
You are correct, there is no economical option for a non-FFL person to ship a handgun to an FFL. I suggest taking a handgun to a local FFL and let them mail it via USPS priority mail. Whatever fee they charge for their service should be 1/4th the cost difference between overnight shipping and priority mail. Unfortunately, it is illegal for regular non-FFL people to mail handguns via USPS. And that might have been where you were confused, FFLs can MAIL handguns via USPS but non-FFLs can't.
Blacksheardad
New member
Parts?
What about shipping parts? If the gun is disassembled and sent in multiple packages would that be legal? I have someone wanting to send a pistol from another state for repairs.
What about shipping parts? If the gun is disassembled and sent in multiple packages would that be legal? I have someone wanting to send a pistol from another state for repairs.
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