Shipping a handgun from one state to another

[nodemas]

Does anyone out there know what the laws are that govern shipping a handgun from one state to another to the same owner? I live about six months in Florida and the other in Texas. I want to ship the gun that I carry on myself to Texas. How would I go about that, and are there carriers that normally do that? Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[NMHunter]

ATF Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2005. This is the latest I've gotten from BATFE as a dealer. You cannot send handguns, as a nonlicensee, through the US Mail, you have to use a common carrier. Check out Postal Regulations, too. On page 178 is the following.

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[nodemas]

Thank you for the reply. Are you referring to a licensee as a Dealer of Handguns? Does the holding of a Concealed weapons permit allow me to ship the weapon to myself in another state? I normally ship the gun in an approved handgun safe within my baggage. In fact, I declare the weapon as required by law to the airline. Then I take the the bag to the TSA check point, and stand there as they check the gun and the safe that it is packed in. I always get it approved. I then lock the safe in front of TSA and then the bag, and Ii am told by the TSA agent that once they do the check and afix the sticker to my bag, that the bag and gun will not be checked again until i retrieve it at the final destination. I always take non stop flights. It never fails that when I claim my bag, I find that the bag has been opened, and the lock has been removed from the gun safe, and my weapon has been handled. About 95 % of the time the lock to the safe is not put back on the safe, and recently the TSA approved lock on my bag was removed and not re attached, as well as the gun inside. I now believe that the only safe way to get the gun to me without it being handled is to ship via UPS or FEDEX or some carrier like that. I am just trying to find out whether or not I can do that or do I have to pay a Dealer to ship the gun to me.
Thanks to anyone that can help me.

 

[2beararms]

A licensee as referred to would be the holder of a Federal Firearms License (FFL), not a Concealed Weapons License.

However, read the answer carefully it referes to NON-licensees and notes that you MAY ship firearms to yourself (or in care of yourself to another individual) by common carrier (not USPS) and address that package to yourself and have the recipient not open it (therefore not taking possession of the firearms).

 

[NMHunter]

Thank you for the reply. Are you referring to a licensee as a Dealer of Handguns? Does the holding of a Concealed weapons permit allow me to ship the weapon to myself in another state? I normally ship the gun in an approved handgun safe within my baggage. In fact, I declare the weapon as required by law to the airline. Then I take the the bag to the TSA check point, and stand there as they check the gun and the safe that it is packed in. I always get it approved. I then lock the safe in front of TSA and then the bag, and Ii am told by the TSA agent that once they do the check and afix the sticker to my bag, that the bag and gun will not be checked again until i retrieve it at the final destination. I always take non stop flights. It never fails that when I claim my bag, I find that the bag has been opened, and the lock has been removed from the gun safe, and my weapon has been handled. About 95 % of the time the lock to the safe is not put back on the safe, and recently the TSA approved lock on my bag was removed and not re attached, as well as the gun inside. I now believe that the only safe way to get the gun to me without it being handled is to ship via UPS or FEDEX or some carrier like that. I am just trying to find out whether or not I can do that or do I have to pay a Dealer to ship the gun to me.
Thanks to anyone that can help me.

The concealed permit has no bearing on shipping. I am referring to a Federal Firearms Licensee, commonly termed an FFL, as a licensee and anyone else is a non-licensee. This is one of the few circumstances, subject to state and local laws, that a non-licensee can ship firearms inter-state. The only other one I can think of is sending a gun to a manufacturer or maker for repair or custom work.
If your lock and gun were removed and not put back I hope you filed a theft report. If a TSA agent stole your gun it is a serious issue.

 

[jessepeakdotcom]

why would you ship it??? why arent you just traveling with your gun?

 

[nodemas]

Previously, I have traveled with the weapon stored in my bags in a TSA approved gun safe with the necessary approved locks attached. Over the last several years, I have found that once I arrived at my destination and claimed my bags, the gun safe in my bag has been opened, and the gun has been handled. I carry 2 full clips stored in the same safe. On one occasion, 2 rounds had been removed from one of the clips. I am very uncomfortable with the fact that apparently TSA can not guarantee the safety of the gun once I have surrendered it to them at the checkpoint. I do not want to deal with an issue at some location with a TSA or ATF agent claiming that I did not secure the weapon, and then have it seized or have to deal with charges against me. I have filed complaints with TSA, and they notify me that they will look into the matter. To date with 8 complaints filed over the last 4 years, there has been no resolution on any complaint.
I am responsible for the weapon and its use when it is on my person. However, I am concerned about what might happen to someone while the weapon is out of my control, and under TSA's control.
Hope that might shed a little more light on what I perceive as the problem.
Have a safe one.
nodemas

 

[jessepeakdotcom]

WOW, never had that happen before- i always carry 2-4 handguns with me and in a lock box, never had this issue- how is TSA getting into your lock box after you check your luggage, you lock it and they send it through the machine - i have the key to my lock box and or combination to the lock - NOT TSA- so how are they getting into your belongings??? this is wild brosef :biggrin:

 

[Swinokur]

WOW, never had that happen before- i always carry 2-4 handguns with me and in a lock box, never had this issue- how is TSA getting into your lock box after you check your luggage, you lock it and they send it through the machine - i have the key to my lock box and or combination to the lock - NOT TSA- so how are they getting into your belongings??? this is wild brosef :biggrin:

That's my question as well. If you fly according to TSA regs, the only person with both physical and legal access to your gun case is YOU?

Full mgazines without the open end covered are also not allowed.

How is any of his possible? Something iss not right here.

 

[nodemas]

When I travel, I follow the letter to the law when it comes to the transporting of a gun. The gunsafe is a metal case made of hardened steel with a double bolt lock system. I use a TSA lock to secure the weapon and clips inside the gun safe. The safe and gun, as well as the two loaded clips adds about 12 to 15 pounds weight to my bag. I also use a hard sided bag as TSA regs require. I declare the gun to American and am furnished the forms to fill out. One forms goes inside with the locked case. The other stays outseld. Once TSA checks the gun safe and proper bag that they are contained in they always affix a sticker to the bag, and send it directly to be loaded on the plane. I am told by the Manager of the chechpoint that no one will touch the bag. As soon as I retrieve the bag in FT. Fauderdale I immediate get a person from American baggage claims to stand there as I open the bag in order to check the integrety of the weapon. Without failure better than 95 % of the time the lock on the safe has been removed the clips are out of there places and the gun is in a different position that it was when it wa packed. AS a rule, I usually take the gun to the hotel, where I break down compleely and reassemble the weapon before being comortable with being able to use it again

 

[Swinokur]

When I travel, I follow the letter to the law when it comes to the transporting of a gun. The gunsafe is a metal case made of hardened steel with a double bolt lock system. I use a TSA lock to secure the weapon and clips inside the gun safe. The safe and gun, as well as the two loaded clips adds about 12 to 15 pounds weight to my bag. I also use a hard sided bag as TSA regs require. I declare the gun to American and am furnished the forms to fill out. One forms goes inside with the locked case. The other stays outseld. Once TSA checks the gun safe and proper bag that they are contained in they always affix a sticker to the bag, and send it directly to be loaded on the plane. I am told by the Manager of the chechpoint that no one will touch the bag. As soon as I retrieve the bag in FT. Fauderdale I immediate get a person from American baggage claims to stand there as I open the bag in order to check the integrety of the weapon. Without failure better than 95 % of the time the lock on the safe has been removed the clips are out of there places and the gun is in a different position that it was when it wa packed. AS a rule, I usually take the gun to the hotel, where I break down compleely and reassemble the weapon before being comortable with being able to use it again

That's my point, if you used a TSA lock on your gun case, you were NOT following TSA procedures which mandate that only you have access to your pistol case. Using a TSA lock is not following the law. Further, if you traveled with loaded mags,not clips regardless of their location and the open end was not covered, you were also not traveling in compliance with TSA regs.

Lastly, it is a violation of FAA regs to affix any sticker to the outside of your luggage that would indicate the contents. All airlines are prohibited frpm doing this. If you did as you said, it's no wonder your stuff was tampered with.

Please elaboarte on how this was in accordance with TSA regs.

something fishy here IMO

 

[nodemas]

To date no one has ever pointed out that I was in violation of any reg. Nine years ago, when I started carrying a weapon because of my field of work, I was told by a TSA agent in Ft. Lauderdale that I needed to declare the gun as being in my bag. I was told to never ship the weapon in my bag with a clip in it. The agent also told me that both the hard sided bag as well as the gun safe must have TSA locks on them that would allow TSA to enter and view the weapon should they choose to do so. I also had to place a declaration card inside the gun safe as well as have the other form stapled to my bag claim. There has not been one time where traveling with 2 loaded clips has ever been a problem. As long as the clips were not loaded in the weapon, and securely stored in the gun safe, the letter of the law was met, as explained to me.
I am attempting to get some help here with a problem that I have. I can assure that what experiences that I have had with regard to the handling of the gun are real and accurate. Not one time has anyone alerted me that I was doing something incorrectly. Had they done so, I would have ceased the practice. I am told that to get the fishy taste out of your mouth, you might want to use a lemon to overcome the taste and smell.Just cut a fresh lemon and put in in your mouth, and the juice of the lemon with take away the fishy taste and smell. Try it, you might like it!
In the meantime, I will continue to look for a solution to the problem. It might be of some interest to you to know that recently TSA, ATF, DEA and local athorities in the DFW area took down a number of people working on the ramps in Dallas for stealing items in passenger bags. Among those items were guns and ammo, with many other items listed as well. I certainly appreciate any comment that might make. However, yours to date has no value or substance as to solving my problem. I have to carry a weapon, and have no trouble following the law. It is when I surrender that weapon to a Governmental source that is supposed to assure me that nothing will happen to the weapon while it is in their possession, is where the system is failing. I do appreciate your input on putting loaded clips with the gun. I will check with TSA to verify your info. I will also check on your other points, as well, to verify that you know what you are talking about. Hope you get those lemons soon. I personally hate that fishy taste and smell. Good luck with that.
The only reason that I posted a question, was to get help from much more qualified people than myself. I am not interested in establishing an on going diatribe regarding the smell of fish. The next time that it happens to me, I will attach a copy of the complaint that I file with TSA, and post it here.
Thanks for your reply, which in view of just my own personal experience, has no value at all.
Have a safe one.
nodemas

 

[Swinokur]

To date no one has ever pointed out that I was in violation of any reg. Nine years ago, when I started carrying a weapon because of my field of work, I was told by a TSA agent in Ft. Lauderdale that I needed to declare the gun as being in my bag. I was told to never ship the weapon in my bag with a clip in it. The agent also told me that both the hard sided bag as well as the gun safe must have TSA locks on them that would allow TSA to enter and view the weapon should they choose to do so. I also had to place a declaration card inside the gun safe as well as have the other form stapled to my bag claim. There has not been one time where traveling with 2 loaded clips has ever been a problem. As long as the clips were not loaded in the weapon, and securely stored in the gun safe, the letter of the law was met, as explained to me.
I am attempting to get some help here with a problem that I have. I can assure that what experiences that I have had with regard to the handling of the gun are real and accurate. Not one time has anyone alerted me that I was doing something incorrectly. Had they done so, I would have ceased the practice. I am told that to get the fishy taste out of your mouth, you might want to use a lemon to overcome the taste and smell.Just cut a fresh lemon and put in in your mouth, and the juice of the lemon with take away the fishy taste and smell. Try it, you might like it!
In the meantime, I will continue to look for a solution to the problem. It might be of some interest to you to know that recently TSA, ATF, DEA and local athorities in the DFW area took down a number of people working on the ramps in Dallas for stealing items in passenger bags. Among those items were guns and ammo, with many other items listed as well. I certainly appreciate any comment that might make. However, yours to date has no value or substance as to solving my problem. I have to carry a weapon, and have no trouble following the law. It is when I surrender that weapon to a Governmental source that is supposed to assure me that nothing will happen to the weapon while it is in their possession, is where the system is failing. I do appreciate your input on putting loaded clips with the gun. I will check with TSA to verify your info. I will also check on your other points, as well, to verify that you know what you are talking about. Hope you get those lemons soon. I personally hate that fishy taste and smell. Good luck with that.
The only reason that I posted a question, was to get help from much more qualified people than myself. I am not interested in establishing an on going diatribe regarding the smell of fish. The next time that it happens to me, I will attach a copy of the complaint that I file with TSA, and post it here.
Thanks for your reply, which in view of just my own personal experience, has no value at all.
Have a safe one.
nodemas

Here are the TSA regs for flying with a firearm. TSA REGS. I have highlighted the portion that may solve your continuing problem of tampering.

You may only transport firearms, ammunition and firearm parts in your checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR § 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.

The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

Photo of a firearm properly packaged. We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.

Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearm

Airlines have been prohibited from affixing an outside tag on your luggage for a couple of years. Did you relate to TSA in your letter how you were securing your firearm?

Perhaps if you followed these simple rules the tampering would stop. Not sure though. I have followed the regs and had no problems. Since you state that you are following a 9 year old verbal directive from a TSA agent you may wiish to refresh your knowledge in light of the current travel climate in the country.

I'm very curious what type of handgun uses a clip rather than a magazine. Are you permitted to elaborate?

I have also found the most accurate and up to date info on the web sites of the agency promulgating the regs, not Internet gun web sites. Perhaps your experience is different

YMMV

But my guess is if you continue to travel according to 9 year old verbal info, your problems will continue.


Lastly, I tried your suggestion about using lemons to get rid of the fish smell. Didn't work at all. The odor became worse. Thanks for the tip though.

Hope the link to the regs increased the value of the post a little bit

Have a nice flight by the way.

leasantry:

 

[wolfhunter]

Possibly a revolver using half-moon clips, like a S&W M325 Night Guard?

 

[skipster]

TSA Lock; say it is not so!!!

You should never lock your guns in a safe with a TSA Lock! That is your mistake.

The regulations say that the lock is NOT to be a TSA lock and the only you should have the key/combination.

 

[Swinokur]

You should never lock your guns in a safe with a TSA Lock! That is your mistake.

The regulations say that the lock is NOT to be a TSA lock and the only you should have the key/combination.

Not to mention allowing the airline to place a tag on the outside of your bag announcing to the world that it contains a firearm in violation of TSA and FAA regs.

No wonder it got tampered with.

Oh, but a TSA Goon told me this 9 years ago. Was the TSA even in existence 9 years ago?

Oh., I see it was

The TSA was originally organized in the U.S. Department of Transportation but was moved to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on November 25, 2002. The agency is responsible for security in all modes of transportation

But my info is of no value to the OP. Oh well. keep on having the problems.

:cray:

By the way, anyone else smell anything? lemons? fish perhaps?

:sarcastic: