Sheepdog Training Tour ~Featuring Lt. Col. David Grossman~

[The_Outlaw]

Lt. Col. Grossman will kick off his series of seminars, the Restoring Responsibility Tour—Featuring The Bullet Proof Mind, or better known as the “Sheepdog Seminars” on June 29th.

Grossman’s program was originally designed to prepare policemen and military personnel for combat. More importantly it taught them how to grapple with the mental and emotional trauma of lethal combat.

Today, however, it’s becoming increasingly important for everyday citizens (who aren’t afforded the luxury of police protection) to arm themselves with these skills and become their own first responders in the event of a deadly encounter.

Lt. Col Grossman’s ”Sheepdog Seminar” will tour throughout the country in several major cities including Dallas, Salt Lake City, Philadelphia, Orlando, Phoenix, Atlanta, and others.

Lt. Col. David Grossman Kicking Off ?Sheepdog? Training Tour In Dallas ? Glenn Beck

 

[BluesStringer]

Lt. Col. Grossman will kick off his series of seminars, the Restoring Responsibility Tour—Featuring The Bullet Proof Mind, or better known as the “Sheepdog Seminars” on June 29th.

Grossman’s program was originally designed to prepare policemen and military personnel for combat. More importantly it taught them how to grapple with the mental and emotional trauma of lethal combat.

Today, however, it’s becoming increasingly important for everyday citizens (who aren’t afforded the luxury of police protection) to arm themselves with these skills and become their own first responders in the event of a deadly encounter.

Lt. Col Grossman’s ”Sheepdog Seminar” will tour throughout the country in several major cities including Dallas, Salt Lake City, Philadelphia, Orlando, Phoenix, Atlanta, and others.

Lt. Col. David Grossman Kicking Off ?Sheepdog? Training Tour In Dallas ? Glenn Beck

Oh boy, now you've done it Outlaw. Anti-sheepdog hoards descend on this thread like a pack of rabid wolves in 5, 4, 3, 2......

Blues

 

[r1derbike]

Oh boy, now you've done it Outlaw. Anti-sheepdog hoards descend on this thread like a pack of rabid wolves in 5, 4, 3, 2......

Blues

We will dispatch them with truth, shame, and humility.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Oh boy, now you've done it Outlaw. Anti-sheepdog hoards descend on this thread like a pack of rabid wolves in 5, 4, 3, 2......

Blues

We will dispatch them with truth, shame, and humility.

Pick me!
PICK ME!!!
I want to help point and laugh

 

[the dark]

Might be interesting...On Killing was a good read, although some of what I have seen from him is more inspiration than instruction, more proselytizing than practical. And I am not sure I would consider Grossman the world's leading expert on "self-defense".

 

[Bikenut]

I am not a sheep for I do not mill around with the flock with my attention on fitting in with the flock.

I am not a wolf for I do not prey on the sheep.

I am not a sheepdog for I do not have the responsibility to protect the sheep... nor do I have any desire to fight the wolf.

I am a stray dog... I am warily friendly to the sheep and I avoid the wolf as I fend for myself yet I will fiercely fight to protect those I love... from both wolf and sheep.

The word "sheepdog" sounds so nice... to be someone who protects the weak and innocent... but the truth is... it is not my job or responsibility to protect other citizens just because I carry a gun. I can choose to protect other citizens because of my individual morals and ethics... but I am not obligated to... it still isn't my job or responsibility... hence I am not a "sheepdog". If the "sheep" want to protect themselves from the "wolf" let them get their own damn gun.

And, in my not so humble opinion, those who think just because they carry a gun they are some kind of appointed and anointed "superhero defender of humanity" have been watching too many movies.

 

[Treo]

here we go again.

Hasn't much of Grossman's muttering been discredited?

http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm

 

[BluesStringer]

here we go again.

Hasn't much of Grossman's muttering been discredited?

The Col Dave Grossman Debate - How Mistaken Is He?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! An internet argument from 2001 between one guy responding to several excerpts from several speeches and presentations by Grossman (with who knows how much context was kept intact) is all it takes to discredit a well-known instructor, PhD, professor from Annapolis and researcher. BRILLIANT!!!!

Man, I called that one right, didn't I???

Blues

 

[Axeanda45]

Col Grossman has some great teachings, BUT I agree with Bikenut about the "sheepdog" analogy.... The public needs to start defending themselves.... It is NOT our responsibility to defend them... I do, (and I am sure Bikenut does too, or he will correct me) understand what Grossman was trying to get across when he came up with the "sheepdog" analogy.... It has as its foundation that he isnt waiting around for someone else to "protect" him, he is taking that responsibility on himself instead of letting the shepherd (who would in the analogy be represented by the police even if they are not mentioned) so... if I havent confused you all yet.. I agree with the premise, but not the analogy... which, in other, other words (not a typo) means "sheepdog" does not correctly define what a observant and diligent defender of self and family should be described as..... wow, now I think I have confused myself....

 

[Treo]

professor from Annapolis

West Point........

 

[BluesStringer]

West Point........

Yeah, whatever. Still weak as all get-out to post a 12-year-old argument that some cop was having with cherry-picked excerpts of speeches and presentations by Grossman that the cop just disagreed with, and extrapolate from that weak way of "debating" that Grossman is established as a discredited writer, instructor, whatever. You are WAY more discredited with that one post than that whole link discredited Grossman. You've completely lost it, Treo.

Blues

 

[BluesStringer]

Here's my thoughts on sheepdogs:

One, I never heard of Col. Grossman in relation to being a sheepdog before landing in a thread here more than a year ago. I had a loose idea of what the term meant from listening to about 1/4 or a 1/3 of a nutnfancy video on the "Sheepdog Concept" when it was first released. I'm not a nutnfancy groupie, but hey, I collect knives and he does good knife reviews, so I subscribed to his channel in '08 when I saw one of his first knife reviews. But I digress....

Maybe I didn't look into it deeply enough to really know what either Grossman or nutnfancy think a sheepdog is, but what I get from the "concept" is that a sheepdog is just a person who is of a spirit to help those who can't help themselves. Itisn't about any obligation to protect anyone, and it isn't limited only to gun-play or even getting between people in a fight or whatever. It means (to me) that you're prepared to help when you can, period. I related it in '09 when I first heard it to having gone to Biloxi, MS after Katrina in '05 for two weeks to help those who had been displaced, injured, had homes destroyed, what have you. I relate it to keeping a couple of blankets and first aid gear in my Jeep in case I come upon an accident where someone needs help before EMS gets there. I have consistently volunteered at the Salvation Army after working there for a few months several years ago. I have no obligation to drive and man their food trucks, but if I can, I believe it's a good thing to do.

The black-and-white view that anyone who considers themselves a sheepdog just wants to get in a gunfight, or is a wannabe cop, or whatever the insulting euphemism of the week is, is just brainless, knee-jerk reactions that have no bearing at all to anything I've ever perceived about nutnfancy, or anyone around here who doesn't have that jaded view of the concept, and certainly nothing like what I'm about.

This has been explained for some people around here before, but they are entrenched in their holier-than-thou misperceptions and can seemingly never let go of their old biases, grudges, maybe even hatred of people who see things differently than themselves. It is quite unbecoming though, to say the least.

Blues

 

[Treo]

Yeah, whatever.

No, it is a very important distiction at least to those who have attended either school or who watch the Army /Navy game every year (of course around here it's more the Army / Air Force game)

 

[Treo]

The biggest problem I have with Mr. Grossman’s theories (remember this guy has never served in a line unit, never served in combat and never even heard much less fired “a shot in anger”) is not so much the theories themselves but the way I’ve seen so many people twist them to fulfill some kind of Bushi-Do fantasy.

I have a coworker that is an absolute devotee of both nutnfancy and Mr. Grossman and every time I see this guy he goes into a rant about how if you are a gun owner and you’re not a member of the NRA (I am) you’re a blood sucking leech who is letting them do your fighting for you and if you don’t have a concealed handgun permit or if you do have a concealed hand gun permit and you ever leave your home un armed (I don't) you are a stench in the nostrils of honest men because “you aren’t willing or prepared to fulfill your civic duty as a sheep dog” (direct quote BTW). Of course we’ve all seen similar discourses on various gun forums.

I am not a psychologist but the impression I get from most (by no means all) of the Grossman followers is that they don’t have a lot of self worth to begin with and then Grossman comes along with his “sheep dog” ethos and gives them something outside themselves to attach what self worth they do have to. Suddenly they’re not nobodies, they’re Sheep Dogs, the defenders of the flock; they have a mission in life to protect the poor defenseless sheep. And the build up this superhero fantasy in their minds and in my mind that’s dangerous.

I’ve seen too many real people, in the real world take that "sheep dog" mind set and use it give themselves a reason to interject themselves into situations that they have no business being in. To be clear when I say that I’m not talking about taking on a robber at 7-11 I’m talking about stupid stuff like “patrolling” the neighborhood on the fourth of July in a security guard uniform telling people you’re a cop and that they’d better not shoot off any fireworks or “patrolling” a neighborhood at night, armed looking for “miscreants” (ask George Zimmerman how that worked out for him) or (and this one isn’t a real life experience I read it here) entering a neighbor’s property to question someone sitting in their car minding their own business in the neighbor’s driveway. It’s been my observation that sooner or later these folks’ Walter Mitty fantasies get them into water over their head. It's also been my observation that the folks that get the maddest when I say this stuff are the ones that most need to hear it

That’s why I get nervous whenever the sheep dog topic comes up.

 

[gunnerbob]

I petition we turn this into a Nutnfancy hate thread, takers?


LMAO!!!

 

[Treo]

I petition we turn this into a Nutnfancy hate thread, takers?


LMAO!!!

If you build it they will come.

 

[BluesStringer]

I petition we turn this into a Nutnfancy hate thread, takers?


LMAO!!!

If you build it they will come.

And you would know that better than any other member of this forum, because you're the biggest "comer" on this topic anywhere on the web that I've ever seen. You don't say "Baah baah," you don't growl like a wolf, and you make no sounds like a sheepdog, you just slurp like Pavlov's dog every time the words "sheepdog, Grossman or nutnfancy" are mentioned. It's obsessive with you.

 

[Treo]

And you would know that better than any other member of this forum, because you're the biggest "comer" on this topic anywhere on the web that I've ever seen. You don't say "Baah baah," you don't growl like a wolf, and you make no sounds like a sheepdog, you just slurp like Pavlov's dog every time the words "sheepdog, Grossman or nutnfancy" are mentioned. It's obsessive with you.

What I'm hearing you say is Since I can't refute the argument I think I'll attack the arguer

 

[BluesStringer]

What I'm hearing you say is Since I can't refute the argument I think I'll attack the arguer

Right, like I didn't already decimate your "argument." You have yet to acknowledge how meaningless your first link was, and now I'm supposed to "refute" the "argument" of an anecdotal story about a co-worker whose words, attitudes and "devotion" to Grossman and nutnfancy we have to take your word for? Fuhgedabouditt. Like I said already, your first post did more to discredit your ability to think clearly on the topic than anything Grossman or nutnfancy has ever said.

Blues

 

[dogshawred]

Here's my thoughts on sheepdogs:

One, I never heard of Col. Grossman in relation to being a sheepdog before landing in a thread here more than a year ago. I had a loose idea of what the term meant from listening to about 1/4 or a 1/3 of a nutnfancy video on the "Sheepdog Concept" when it was first released. I'm not a nutnfancy groupie, but hey, I collect knives and he does good knife reviews, so I subscribed to his channel in '08 when I saw one of his first knife reviews. But I digress....

Maybe I didn't look into it deeply enough to really know what either Grossman or nutnfancy think a sheepdog is, but what I get from the "concept" is that a sheepdog is just a person who is of a spirit to help those who can't help themselves. Itisn't about any obligation to protect anyone, and it isn't limited only to gun-play or even getting between people in a fight or whatever. It means (to me) that you're prepared to help when you can, period. I related it in '09 when I first heard it to having gone to Biloxi, MS after Katrina in '05 for two weeks to help those who had been displaced, injured, had homes destroyed, what have you. I relate it to keeping a couple of blankets and first aid gear in my Jeep in case I come upon an accident where someone needs help before EMS gets there. I have consistently volunteered at the Salvation Army after working there for a few months several years ago. I have no obligation to drive and man their food trucks, but if I can, I believe it's a good thing to do.

The black-and-white view that anyone who considers themselves a sheepdog just wants to get in a gunfight, or is a wannabe cop, or whatever the insulting euphemism of the week is, is just brainless, knee-jerk reactions that have no bearing at all to anything I've ever perceived about nutnfancy, or anyone around here who doesn't have that jaded view of the concept, and certainly nothing like what I'm about.

This has been explained for some people around here before, but they are entrenched in their holier-than-thou misperceptions and can seemingly never let go of their old biases, grudges, maybe even hatred of people who see things differently than themselves. It is quite unbecoming though, to say the least.

Blues

Thank you for your thoughts, a clean and concise interpretation of what I have always referred to as "doing what is right". Not always a popular stand but to me fulfilling. A premise that has severed me well through my life and gives me no cause to doubt what I have done through out my life.