Serbu Super Shorty

[Midwest Doc]

Super Shorty 12 g Remington is my home defense weapon. Recommendations please:
Shot vs slug?
Specific shell suggestions?

Thanks

 

[B2Tall]

Super Shorty 12 g Remington is my home defense weapon. Recommendations please:
Shot vs slug?
Specific shell suggestions?

Thanks

Cool little gun but I wouldn't be comfortable with just 3 rounds at the ready. I'll stick with my 8 shot Mossberg tactical. As far as shells go, whatever you choose make sure it's low-recoil. Firing a 12ga that small has got to be a bit unpleasant.

 

[Midwest Doc]

Thanks for the response

Your suggestion about recoil makes a lot of sense.
Shot vs.slug?

 

[Thursday]

Can't go wrong with OO, a slug would probably just be unpleasant.

 

[Twodollarpistol]

Your suggestion about recoil makes a lot of sense.
Shot vs.slug?

Neither one for in your home. The over penetration through interior walls would place anyone else in your home or the next apartment in too much danger. This is also the reason I would not choose a high velocity rifle for home defense. Standard low power hunting loads with #6 shot is what I use. If you pattern these loads at inside the home ranges you will find that the shot colum is so closely grouped that it is as effective as a slug on first contact with a person or a wall, but rapidly begins to spread out and loose energy after that and presents much less threat to others in the immediate area.
JMHO
2DP

 

[Rocketgeezer]

For home defence, with that short gun, #4 buck, recoil is manageable and unless your 2 inches away it most likely will not penatrate walls to the outside, and if by chance it did there is little chance it would still have power enough to do any damage

 

[Twodollarpistol]

For home defence, with that short gun, #4 buck, recoil is manageable and unless your 2 inches away it most likely will not penatrate walls to the outside, and if by chance it did there is little chance it would still have power enough to do any damage

And if it does, maby it " MOST LIKELY" wont kill your 6 year old child , or whoever, on the other side of that wall. A couple pieces of 1/2" sheet rock doesnt make such a great barrier. But to end all discussion, why not set up a little test by placing several pieces of wallboard a few inches apart and fire different loads, from YOUR gun,from say eight feet away and see how much penetration each load provides. Then you will have some actual facts rather than ,"most likely", or "prolly", or "might", or "might not". Knowledge is a wonderful thing, guessing sucks when you are using a gun around your family or friends.
By the way, I have performed this test with my Mossy, at the suggestion from a member of another forum i visit, and I KNOW exactly what my load, from my gun, will and wont do. And even the hand loaded, low power load I use under certain circunstances will over penetrate interior walls.
JMDAO
2DP

 

[kudzu]

Super Shorty 12 g Remington is my home defense weapon. Recommendations please:
Shot vs slug?
Specific shell suggestions?

Thanks

For a long time, I was of Twodollarpistol's school of thought. I figured at inside-the-house ranges, No. 4 or No. 6 shot would be effective without over penetrating.

A crusty old Marine working in a gun store told me that for close range work the Marines used No. 2 buckshot because that provided the most pellets with enough mass to achieve adequate penetration.

More recently, I have seen a video in which Massad Ayoob recommended No. 4 buck for the same reason.

If you haven't seen the tests and discussion about shotgun rounds on the Box O' Truth, check it out:

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

The Box O' Truth dude concluded that birdshot, including heavy shot like No. 6 and No. 4, is for birds. He was not satisfied even with the lighter buckshot loads. He says any shot that will be effective against a human will penetrate numerous layers of sheetrock.

Remington's website provides some helpful information, follow this link and click on "Specifications":

Link Removed

I emailed Remington and asked about the weight of individual pellets in their buckshot loads and this is what they told me:

Weight per pellet:
#4 buck-20.83 gr
#3 buck-25.59 gr
#1 buck-21.17 gr
0 buck- 39.77 gr
00 buck-48.61 gr
000 buck- 51.47

Everybody won't come to the same conclusion and what Twodollarpistol said about determining for yourself has a lot of merit. Based on everything discussed, including the information provided by Remington, I conclude that Ayoob is right. 4 buck is 27 .25 caliber, 21 gr pellets, traveling 1325 fps. If that doesn't "git 'r done," shoot twice. I wouldn't go any lighter than that, but even considering the Box O' Truth test, I am satisfied that it is adequate. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

And if it does, maby it " MOST LIKELY" wont kill your 6 year old child , or whoever, on the other side of that wall. A couple pieces of 1/2" sheet rock doesnt make such a great barrier. But to end all discussion, why not set up a little test by placing several pieces of wallboard a few inches apart and fire different loads, from YOUR gun,from say eight feet away and see how much penetration each load provides. Then you will have some actual facts rather than ,"most likely", or "prolly", or "might", or "might not". Knowledge is a wonderful thing, guessing sucks when you are using a gun around your family or friends.
By the way, I have performed this test with my Mossy, at the suggestion from a member of another forum i visit, and I KNOW exactly what my load, from my gun, will and wont do. And even the hand loaded, low power load I use under certain circunstances will over penetrate interior walls.
JMDAO
2DP

Well excuse me, next time I will be more specific, did not realize we had a honest to god expert on shotgun rounds comeing from such a short barrel 12 gauge, with which NOBODY has any actual, ballistic data from any 12 gauge rds, any shot ammo comeing from that 10 inch barrel is going a lot slower than it would be from your Mossy, now if you want specific info on shot from a 10 or 12 inch barrel shotgun cut your mossy's barrel and test it then you will specific info instead of my so called guess's, ...........you can reply if you want but I do not care, also most likely will not even look at this thread again, because I really try not to get into pissing contest's on the internet, because its like running in a race for the special Olympics, so if you want to correct me or anybody else that does not answer posts with opinions that you approve of,....you win

 

[Rocketgeezer]

OK, I just went out back and set up a section of sheetrock, spaced it about 3 inches from some 1/2 plywood with some sheet insulation and sideing on the back, laid this against a sawhourse, and put 2 rds of 2.3/4 #4 buck (wally world remington) from my 12 gauge pump (18 inch barrel) into my makeshift (wall) from 35-40 feet I found maybe a half dozen pellets made it though, and I found them laying in the dirt within three feet from the wall, and the rds were really spread out, 2 ft or better........now just so you guys know I tryed to do a honest test from 6 ft away the #4 put a rather ragged hole in the wall, and MOST LIKELY would have hurt somebody DIRECTLY on the other side...........so as I said before with that SHORT SERBU GUN, which would have nowhere near the pellet speed of a 18, 22 or Mossy barrel, unless your very close to a wall # 4 buck ( at least the sample rds I tryed) should not go to the outside with any power left

 

[Twodollarpistol]

For a long time, I was of Twodollarpistol's school of thought. I figured at inside-the-house ranges, No. 4 or No. 6 shot would be effective without over penetrating.

A crusty old Marine working in a gun store told me that for close range work the Marines used No. 2 buckshot because that provided the most pellets with enough mass to achieve adequate penetration.

More recently, I have seen a video in which Massad Ayoob recommended No. 4 buck for the same reason.

If you haven't seen the tests and discussion about shotgun rounds on the Box O' Truth, check it out:

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

The Box O' Truth dude concluded that birdshot, including heavy shot like No. 6 and No. 4, is for birds. He was not satisfied even with the lighter buckshot loads. He says any shot that will be effective against a human will penetrate numerous layers of sheetrock.

Remington's website provides some helpful information, follow this link and click on "Specifications":

Link Removed

I emailed Remington and asked about the weight of individual pellets in their buckshot loads and this is what they told me:

Weight per pellet:
#4 buck-20.83 gr
#3 buck-25.59 gr
#1 buck-21.17 gr
0 buck- 39.77 gr
00 buck-48.61 gr
000 buck- 51.47

Everybody won't come to the same conclusion and what Twodollarpistol said about determining for yourself has a lot of merit. Based on everything discussed, including the information provided by Remington, I conclude that Ayoob is right. 4 buck is 27 .25 caliber, 21 gr pellets, traveling 1325 fps. If that doesn't "git 'r done," shoot twice. I wouldn't go any lighter than that, but even considering the Box O' Truth test, I am satisfied that it is adequate. Of course, YMMV.

That is a very interesting web site and tests. Lots of good info. I have tested my loads on sheetrock from my 19 1/2 12 ga at about 8 to 10 ft. It entered about the size of a med orange, penetrated two layers of sheet rock and stoped in the third, but I am thankful to say I have never tried these loads on any kind of flesh and I know the resuls would certanly be different. Perhaps I need to consider my thoughts and opinions a little further. I wouldnt, however,go so far as to say at these ranges the shot charge would just bounce of of anybody as this web site reported. I dont want to be the test subject to prove it.:no:
Thanks for yor input and the info
2DP

 

[kudzu]

...NOBODY has any actual, ballistic data from any 12 gauge rds, any shot ammo comeing from that 10 inch barrel...

Good catch! Not being familiar with the specific weapon mentioned, I did not realize we were talking about a super-short barrel. Yeah, I know what assuming does!

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Good catch! Not being familiar with the specific weapon mentioned, I did not realize we were talking about a super-short barrel. Yeah, I know what assuming does!

I need to correct my earlyer statement the Serbu Super Shorty that is the subject of this thread, does not have a 10 inch barrel, it has a 6.5 inch barrel, according to the info from there websight, so exactly how is that popgun supposed to build any velocity, when the pellets barely travel twice the length of the shell before it starts spreading out, and like i said previous, unless you have the muzzle two inches from the wall its doubtful many of the #4 pellets would make it through the wall, personaly that thing would have to give you a wack from recoil that would really hurt:fie:

 

[TechPrepper]

I am waaaay late to this thread, but I just picked up a Super Shorty and am eagerly waiting for it to get delivered. Meanwhile I'm trying to figure out how to go about getting the $5 tax stamp for the AOW. Any help would be greatly appreciated!