Semi-auto firearms

[Warbirds]

Let's clarify shall we? We have some disinformation being spread in the forum about why AR15s are evil, the reason given is that they are different from "standard" semi-autos because they are "magazine fed and gas operated"

Other than belt fed semi-autos does anyone know of a semi-auto pistol or rifle that is not magazine fed and gas operated?

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[Kalamity023]

They all are magazine fed, but semi-autos can be tube fed and not have a detachable mag. Some can be tube fed. The real reason is that they look "Scary"!

 

[Sir Diealotz]

Let's clarify shall we? We have some disinformation being spread in the forum about why AR15s are evil, the reason given is that they are different from "standard" semi-autos because they are "magazine fed and gas operated"

Other than belt fed semi-autos does anyone know of a semi-auto pistol or rifle that is not magazine fed and gas operated?

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Trollbee's crossbow?

 

[Warbirds]

They all are magazine fed, but semi-autos can be tube fed and not have a detachable mag. Some can be tube fed. The real reason is that they look "Scary"!

Just to clarify what you said, a semi can be fed from a tube magazine. They can also have a non detachable magazine lIkea an sks.

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[Treo]

I CZ82 is blowback operated

 

[Warbirds]

I CZ82 is blowback operated

And what causes the blowback?

Blow back, delayed blowback, direct impingment (AR15), piston..... they are all powered by...............?

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[escapedthematrix]

They all are magazine fed, but semi-autos can be tube fed and not have a detachable mag. Some can be tube fed. The real reason is that they look "Scary"!

The idea that they look scary is a conditioned response which is a result of anti-gun messages we see in our everyday lives. Its in the news, entertainment, advertisements etc. Its dog training...

 

[thoricuncle]

And what causes the blowback?

Blow back, delayed blowback, direct impingment (AR15), piston..... they are all powered by...............?

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I think you are confused a bit.

A gas operated firearm is one that directs expanding gases from the barrel of the gun to the locking mechanism to unlock the breach and allow the action to remove the spent case and load another round. An AR-15, AK-47, M1 Garand, etc are all examples of this. If you plug the valve that releases this gas, you will turn the gun into a single shot.

There is also straight blowback operated semi auto's which use the momentum of the bullet being fired to operate the mechanism. The breech is held closed by the weight of the slide and the strength of the spring. These guns rely on a large slide and stiff springs to operate. Due to the simplicity of engineering, they are cheaper pistols or smaller calibers. High Points, Jimenez, 10/22, Marlin Model 60 etc are examples of straight blowback.

Finally, there is locked breach. Here the barrel and slide are locked together until the bullet exits the barrel and then the recoil unlocks the breach and allows the slide to move backwards. Since there is a mechanical action that keeps the breach and barrel locked together, the spring and mass of the slide are not important so they can be build much lighter and with lighter springs.

The latter two are not operated by gas but by momentum.

 

[Deserteagle]

Many modern semi-autos are considered "evil" or for "military use only" simply because of the way they look. Especially black telescoping stocks! Oh the horror!

 

[Warbirds]

I think you are confused a bit.

A gas operated firearm is one that directs expanding gases from the barrel of the gun to the locking mechanism to unlock the breach and allow the action to remove the spent case and load another round. An AR-15, AK-47, M1 Garand, etc are all examples of this. If you plug the valve that releases this gas, you will turn the gun into a single shot.

There is also straight blowback operated semi auto's which use the momentum of the bullet being fired to operate the mechanism. The breech is held closed by the weight of the slide and the strength of the spring. These guns rely on a large slide and stiff springs to operate. Due to the simplicity of engineering, they are cheaper pistols or smaller calibers. High Points, Jimenez, 10/22, Marlin Model 60 etc are examples of straight blowback.

Finally, there is locked breach. Here the barrel and slide are locked together until the bullet exits the barrel and then the recoil unlocks the breach and allows the slide to move backwards. Since there is a mechanical action that keeps the breach and barrel locked together, the spring and mass of the slide are not important so they can be build much lighter and with lighter springs.

The latter two are not operated by gas but by momentum.

No, when you think about the basic function, not the type, the recoil comes from where? The expanding gas expands the brass against the chamber and pushes the bullet down the barrel. Thus producing recoIl. The same recoil that does not exist if you fire a round that doesn't have powder. Same thing with a blowback design. It just utilizes the expanding gases in a different manner.

Direct impingment just utilizes the expanding gas in a different manner to cycle the action. It's not an evil rifle using demonic forces to cause death.

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[cawpin]

No, when you think about the basic function, not the type, the recoil comes from where? The expanding gas expands the brass against the chamber and pushes the bullet down the barrel. Thus producing recoIl. The same recoil that does not exist if you fire a round that doesn't have powder. Same thing with a blowback design. It just utilizes the expanding gases in a different manner.

Direct impingment just utilizes the expanding gas in a different manner to cycle the action. It's not an evil rifle using demonic forces to cause death.

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He never said it was evil. Gas operated means exactly what he said; the gas is used directly to operate a mechanism. It does not mean that the gas causes recoil and that is eventually used to operate the gun.

To answer your original question, I know of only one common semi-auto pistol that is gas-operated, the Desert Eagle.

 

[Warbirds]

He never said it was evil. Gas operated means exactly what he said; the gas is used directly to operate a mechanism. It does not mean that the gas causes recoil and that is eventually used to operate the gun.

To answer your original question, I know of only one common semi-auto pistol that is gas-operated, the Desert Eagle.

There are only two things in a firearm that create energy, the primer and the powder. You can use the gas directly, like an AR or indirectly like a piston being moved by the expanding gas or by the bolt being pushed backwards or a bolt being delayed until the bullet leaves the barrel until it is being pushed backwards. But all semi auto firearms rely on harnessing and using the power created by the expanding gas.

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[thoricuncle]

He never said it was evil. Gas operated means exactly what he said; the gas is used directly to operate a mechanism. It does not mean that the gas causes recoil and that is eventually used to operate the gun.

To answer your original question, I know of only one common semi-auto pistol that is gas-operated, the Desert Eagle.

Yes, based on that analysis anything from an FAE Bomb to a blow gun is a gas operated weapon. We also agree that neither action is evil.

Anti-gunners are trying to use the definition so they can finally define an evil Assault Weapon.

The only expanding gas that is evil is passed by me after chili night.

 

[[email protected]]

Warbirds, not sure what statements you're referring to specifically because you didn't site an example of AR15s being called evil...But I'm pretty sure I agree with you when it comes to AR15s and their purpose...

Are you writing about more of the same kind of thing we've all seen before? Specifically, gun-grabber appeasing FUDDs and/or ZUMBOs, willing to feed all us "E-VIL" AR15/black rifle shooters to the gun control crocodile in the (false) hope it will eat them last?

We've all probably known or seen at least one of these miserable creatures on the local range or gun club...

Somehow, his muzzleloader, bolt-action rifle or shotgun is "Good", and your evil looking black rifle is "Bad"...By what criteria and how exactly he has arrived at this judgement, he never reveals...But he fervently seems to believe if he mutters the approved politically correct incantations, somehow the dark spirits of the anti-gun netherworld will be appeased, and pass the FUDD by...For now...

Contrary to the opinion of these in-duh-viduals, AR15s (and M1s, M14s, M1As, FN-FALs, AKs, and all other military-style rifles) are NOT evil, but especially to be honored and appreciated by all thinking, free men...

While it's true Our Founders probably did not foresee today's advancements in firearms designs, they surely understood the science would advance, and AR15s for example, are EXACTLY the kind of weapons they had in mind providing for when they crafted the Bill of Rights, and specifically the 2nd Amendment...

These rifles, while fun to shoot, are best suited for one specific purpose; and that is defense of ourselves, our communities, and our Republic against tyranny...Make no mistake about this; we have retained those freedoms we still have only because we're armed!

The would-be tyrants have yet to surmount this last obstacle of a well-armed American people, and cannot without our complicity...So, we keep our shotguns for rabbits and pheasants, our bolt guns for deer and elk, and our AR15s, M1As and AKs for tyrants...Simple...

It seems we must restate this principle again and again as each generation must relearn it...

These rifles are our Liberty Teeth, and our last resort when the press, political free speech and the ballot fail us...

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[maine04619]

No, when you think about the basic function, not the type, the recoil comes from where? The expanding gas expands the brass against the chamber and pushes the bullet down the barrel. Thus producing recoIl. The same recoil that does not exist if you fire a round that doesn't have powder. Same thing with a blowback design. It just utilizes the expanding gases in a different manner. Direct impingment just utilizes the expanding gas in a different manner to cycle the action. It's not an evil rifle using demonic forces to cause death.

Well not quite. This is basic physics for every action there is a = and opposite reaction. This is not the GAS but the BULLET causing the reaction in a "blow back" firearm. IE the FORCE generated by the BULLET traveling forward causes the firearm to RECOIL in the opposite direction. We can prove this by firing a blank in the same weapon and see there is almost no recoil. Now a AR is a true gas impingement ( gas operated ) firearm as some of the GAS from the fired round is REDIRECTED through a hole in the barrel to a tube that carries it to the bolt assemble that uses that pressure to operate the action. In either case these are simple machines doing work and have ZERO intent evil, good or indifferent.

 

[eagleeyes]

the government just don't want us to be able to defend ourselves when they come bangin on our doors at 3am to take our guns is all that bs ban on ar's is all about

 

[TlWheatley]

I found " evil' guns in my safe! They looked bored.

 

[gejoslin]

Action / Reaction

Well not quite. This is basic physics for every action there is a = and opposite reaction. This is not the GAS but the BULLET causing the reaction in a "blow back" firearm. IE the FORCE generated by the BULLET traveling forward causes the firearm to RECOIL in the opposite direction. We can prove this by firing a blank in the same weapon and see there is almost no recoil. Now a AR is a true gas impingement ( gas operated ) firearm as some of the GAS from the fired round is REDIRECTED through a hole in the barrel to a tube that carries it to the bolt assemble that uses that pressure to operate the action. In either case these are simple machines doing work and have ZERO intent evil, good or indifferent.

Not to be an egghead about this but without the gas moving the bullet forward there wouldn't be any action/REACTION to begin with. It's the gas that moves everything, gas operated or blow-back.

The expanding gas comes first, then the bullet moves forward causing the slide to move backwards. Without the gas there is no movement.

 

[Stan45]

There are only two things in a firearm that create energy, the primer and the powder. You can use the gas directly, like an AR or indirectly like a piston being moved by the expanding gas or by the bolt being pushed backwards or a bolt being delayed until the bullet leaves the barrel until it is being pushed backwards. But all semi auto firearms rely on harnessing and using the power created by the expanding gas.

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Your information is a little twisted.

 

[sdprof]

AR-15s and similar weapons are "EVIL" because the look like firearms the military use, they're black and ugly.

So all you have to do is get rid of the scary aspect, like this:

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