My wife and I will be getting our Concealed Carry License's soon and are shopping for appropriate handguns. I want to keep costs down, but still have a reliable weapon. My research suggests that Taurus and SCCY are the best bets for price, quality, concealability, and reliability. Or, have I just convinced myself that because I'm cheap?
Seeking Opinions on Taurus and SCCY
- Thread starter RolandD
- Start date
bofh
Banned
Posts like these always worry me, for multiple reasons.
You can really keep your costs down by not buying a gun at all. Think about all the money you save. You are planning to buy a life saving device. What's your life and your wife's life worth to you? $300 for a SCCY or $550 for a proven service weapon that millions of people, including law enforcement officers, rely on daily? You are trying to save $250/gun or $500 in total. Why? If you really live paycheck-to-paycheck and can only save little every month, I understand. Otherwise, plan ahead, save accordingly, and buy once/cry once.
Now comes the real question. Did you plan a budget for accessories (e.g. holster), training and self defense ammunition, a training class, and regular practice? Again, if you really live paycheck-to-paycheck and can only save little every month, I understand. Otherwise, plan ahead, save accordingly, and then train, practice and carry your firearm with quality equipment. Two quality holsters, 200 rounds of self defense ammunition, 1,000 rounds of practice ammunition, a cleaning kit, and a training class for two persons can easily cost $700.
I carry a Glock 19. Glock firearms are reliable in adverse conditions and with high round counts. Mine has over 10,000 rounds through it and I trained with it in muddy conditions just last weekend. 9mm Glocks tend to have the least amount of wear and tear. All internal OEM components that might wear out, such as springs, are easily replaceable and available on the market. A used Glock 19 may be an option if you want to save money. Smith & Wesson M&P 9c or Shield is another option.
This is only my opinion. You have to make up your own mind. Feel free to ask questions.
I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood my post. Have you fired any Taurus' or SCCY handguns? I wanted experienced opinions, but I received a lecture with no useful information. If you aren't a priggish gun snob I apologize.
missoak
Member
Taurus has had a lot of issues lately with their firearms. Big shake up in the company management too.
SCCY is a new company trying to make their mark in the industry. Their warranty is second to none.
I have owned Taurus revolvers & currently have 2 PT 92's. ( Wonderful weapons.)
I have no experience with SCCY personally, but if I were in your position, everything considered, I would buy the SCCY.
I plan on adding at least one to my collection soon.
Buy what you like & can afford. Any gun in your hand is better than a cell phone. Not everyone can afford to buy an Ed Brown.
SCCY is a new company trying to make their mark in the industry. Their warranty is second to none.
I have owned Taurus revolvers & currently have 2 PT 92's. ( Wonderful weapons.)
I have no experience with SCCY personally, but if I were in your position, everything considered, I would buy the SCCY.
I plan on adding at least one to my collection soon.
Buy what you like & can afford. Any gun in your hand is better than a cell phone. Not everyone can afford to buy an Ed Brown.
bofh
Banned
You did get an opinion, just not the one you wanted. There was useful information in my post. You just didn't like it.
There are tons of reviews (including videos) on the internet, where a person takes a Taurus or SCCY to a range and test fires it. The conclusion is, they seem to work. Does that mean that they are good guns? No. I have been to a number of training classes, where I have seen guns fail. If they can fail in a training class, then they can fail in real life too. Taking a clean gun to a gun range and shooting 50-100 rounds through is not a reliability test. It is a basic function test. I expect a product sold as new to pass a basic function test. A training class typically involves firing 300-600 rounds in a day through a gun without cleaning it, often in adverse conditions. Major gun malfunctions that render it unusable often result from the gun seizing up due to dirt. Other malfunctions include broken parts, especially springs and magazines, due to wear and tear over time.
You get what you pay for. That was the essence of my post. If the difference between a cheap and a battle-proven gun is $250, why go for the cheap gun if you can afford the battle-proven gun with some planning? If you plan to never seriously train, then a Taurus or SCCY is perfect for you. Otherwise, expect a cheap gun to work for the first months or even year and then run into problems. If the gun stops to work when you actually defend your life with it, then that's the end of your story. Otherwise, once you run into problems, availability of replacement parts is essential. It can take weeks or even months to get a firearm repaired with the original manufacturer, if replacement parts are only available via the original manufacturer. With Glocks, you can stock up on replacement parts and even repair the gun at the range. Been there, done that.
FYI: I do have a Taurus TCP 738 .380 ACP mouse gun. I really liked it when I bought it and carried it. I stopped carrying it for a number of reasons. I did take it to the range last weekend as well and experienced a number of failure to eject malfunctions, every 2-3 fired rounds! This appears to be a combination of ammunition and gun. My Hornady XTP self defense ammo and my Monarch training ammo cycles fine, for now, but my Remington UMC training ammo apparently doesn't. I have about 2500 rounds through that gun. I don't recommend it for a number of reasons.
Note that you didn't specify a model, rather focused only on a manufacturer. Once you select a specific model, you need to investigate that particular model. Some handguns work great, some don't. Most cheap handguns are picky with ammunition.
Again, this is only my opinion. You have to make up your own mind. Feel free to ask questions.
I have been looking at the TCP for my wife and possibly for my daughters to carry. What are the number of reasons you don't recommend the TCP?
I am considering the following pocket .380s for my wife:
Beretta Pico
Ruger LCP
Taurus TCP
S&W Bodyguard
Colt Mustang XSP
Kahr CT380
Kahr CW380
Diamondback DB380
Glock 42
SCCY CPX-3 (if it ever makes it to market)
In 9mm, I am considering the folowing for myself and possibly my wife if she likes and can fire them:
SCCY CPX-2
Taurus 709
Ruger LC9s
Beretta Nano
S&W MP Shield
Glock 43
We will be going to a local range that rents guns and will be able to fire most, but not all, of these.
The statement "How much is your life worth?" is BS and pretentious. Why should I pay $500 or up if I can pay half that and get a reliable handgun. "You get what you pay for" is the same. I'm currently driving a well cared for older Mercedes. It has just as many issues as the average car that cost half as much new. Except that it costs twice as much to get things fixed. I have been to the gun specific forums and have read just as many horror stories about the Glocks and S&Ws as I found for the Taurus and Sccy's. The one thing that I did find different was the customer service and warranty stories. Taurus and SCCY appear to take care of problems much more promptly and with less hassle than any other manufacturer that I read about. If you don't like Taurus, or you don't like SCCY, then tell me about your experience with them and why. But don't just put them down because they cost less.
bofh
Banned
I generally don't recommend a .380 ACP mouse gun. Yes, there are "cute" and easily concealable, but that's where it ends. .380 ACP is a weak cartridge that generally underperforms with JHP ammunition. Some people carry FMJ-FN or Xtreme Penetrator .380 ACP rounds because of that. Mouse guns have a small sight radius making quick and accurate shots at distances difficult. It also makes hitting a moving target difficult, as well as, shooting while moving. Mouse guns have also low capacity. Their recoil is significantly higher and more difficult to manage than anything of larger size.
As for the TCP, mine worked perfectly out of the box and until now, but I have seen numerous ones that didn't. These were typically the same failure-to-eject malfunctions that I saw last weekend. I assume that this is a failure of the ejector spring or claw. Also, manually cycling JHP ammunition out of the gun requires to operate the slide with force to emulate a similar speed as when it fires. Slowly moving the slide backwards to eject JHP ammunition out of the gun will end up with the round stuck between the barrel and the slide, requiring disassembly. The TCP doesn't have real sights. My TCP is heavily modified with a better trigger, a +1 magazine extension (not sold anymore), traction grip overlays, a Crimson Trace Laser, and glue-on reflective dots that make the completely black sights a three-dot sight. The laser alone is more expensive than the gun.
As I mentioned in my first post: posts like these always worry me, for multiple reasons. There is a reason why I recommended the Glock 19, S&W M&P 9c and S&W M&P Shield, because I know that these guns have been proven to be reliable in practice. I haven't heard anything similar about SCCY or Taurus handguns, because no-one brings them to the training classes I and others attend. Students come mostly with Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, 1911s, and Sigs. It is my personal opinion that saving the most amount of money shouldn't be an objective when buying a gun. I realize that the SCCY CPX-2 costs $270 and the Glock 19 Gen 4 costs $550, both with 3 magazines, both online prices. Yes, you can buy 2 SCCY CPX-2 for the price of one Glock 19 Gen 4, if that is your objective. I, however, took the advice of my friends, several retired police officers and several retired Marines, put my Taurus TCP away and carry the Glock 19. (Note that some of them still try to convince me to carry a quality 1911.)
It looks like the SCCY CPX-2 could actually be quite reliable: SCCY CPX-2 Torture Test. This test, however, does not say much about long-term reliability. The 9 pound trigger pull would be a non-starter with me though. I think your plan to go to a local range and rent guns is the best choice.
For the .380 ACP caliber war, go to this thread: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/11464-380-enough-gun.html.
As for the TCP, mine worked perfectly out of the box and until now, but I have seen numerous ones that didn't. These were typically the same failure-to-eject malfunctions that I saw last weekend. I assume that this is a failure of the ejector spring or claw. Also, manually cycling JHP ammunition out of the gun requires to operate the slide with force to emulate a similar speed as when it fires. Slowly moving the slide backwards to eject JHP ammunition out of the gun will end up with the round stuck between the barrel and the slide, requiring disassembly. The TCP doesn't have real sights. My TCP is heavily modified with a better trigger, a +1 magazine extension (not sold anymore), traction grip overlays, a Crimson Trace Laser, and glue-on reflective dots that make the completely black sights a three-dot sight. The laser alone is more expensive than the gun.
As I mentioned in my first post: posts like these always worry me, for multiple reasons. There is a reason why I recommended the Glock 19, S&W M&P 9c and S&W M&P Shield, because I know that these guns have been proven to be reliable in practice. I haven't heard anything similar about SCCY or Taurus handguns, because no-one brings them to the training classes I and others attend. Students come mostly with Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, 1911s, and Sigs. It is my personal opinion that saving the most amount of money shouldn't be an objective when buying a gun. I realize that the SCCY CPX-2 costs $270 and the Glock 19 Gen 4 costs $550, both with 3 magazines, both online prices. Yes, you can buy 2 SCCY CPX-2 for the price of one Glock 19 Gen 4, if that is your objective. I, however, took the advice of my friends, several retired police officers and several retired Marines, put my Taurus TCP away and carry the Glock 19. (Note that some of them still try to convince me to carry a quality 1911.)
It looks like the SCCY CPX-2 could actually be quite reliable: SCCY CPX-2 Torture Test. This test, however, does not say much about long-term reliability. The 9 pound trigger pull would be a non-starter with me though. I think your plan to go to a local range and rent guns is the best choice.
For the .380 ACP caliber war, go to this thread: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/11464-380-enough-gun.html.
Bofh, thank you for your answer. How many rounds have you run through your TCP?
As for the .380 ACP debate, I went into this believing that it was too weak and had intended for us all to get 9mms. After a lot of research, I feel that it is an adequate round for self defense. I hope my wife ends up choosing 9mm just for the fact that we will save enough in ammo to buy those fancy guns you are talking about. My wife is already comfortable with her mother's Sig P238, but there is a good chance that the the polymer .380s will have enough recoil to steer her away from .380s.
She wants a small, lightweight handgun to carry in her purse. I know my wife and if I tell her that a pocket .380 is not the right gun and badger her into a larger, heavier 9mm. She'll end up leaving it in her nightstand and not carrying it. It has to be her decision to choose a 9mm. That said, if she did choose the TCP and changed her mind, I'd keep it as a summer carry/backup for myself, even if it is pink.:laugh: The bad thing is the range doesn't have a TCP in their rental stable, but they do have the LCP which is a similar size and weight.
The range does have a SCCY in their rental stable and I may not like the recoil or the trigger when I fire it, but until then I'm trying to learn all I can about it. I like the feel of the SCCY in my hand and if I do like the way it fires, it will be what I will be buying unless I read something that changes my mind. What that might be, I'm not sure. Hence my search for others experiences with SCCY.
As for the .380 ACP debate, I went into this believing that it was too weak and had intended for us all to get 9mms. After a lot of research, I feel that it is an adequate round for self defense. I hope my wife ends up choosing 9mm just for the fact that we will save enough in ammo to buy those fancy guns you are talking about. My wife is already comfortable with her mother's Sig P238, but there is a good chance that the the polymer .380s will have enough recoil to steer her away from .380s.
She wants a small, lightweight handgun to carry in her purse. I know my wife and if I tell her that a pocket .380 is not the right gun and badger her into a larger, heavier 9mm. She'll end up leaving it in her nightstand and not carrying it. It has to be her decision to choose a 9mm. That said, if she did choose the TCP and changed her mind, I'd keep it as a summer carry/backup for myself, even if it is pink.:laugh: The bad thing is the range doesn't have a TCP in their rental stable, but they do have the LCP which is a similar size and weight.
The range does have a SCCY in their rental stable and I may not like the recoil or the trigger when I fire it, but until then I'm trying to learn all I can about it. I like the feel of the SCCY in my hand and if I do like the way it fires, it will be what I will be buying unless I read something that changes my mind. What that might be, I'm not sure. Hence my search for others experiences with SCCY.
bofh
Banned
About 2,500, I think. That's a guess and not accurate counting. It could easily be 1,000 rounds higher, but not lower.
RJT CCW
New member
RolandD I have a PT709 Slim and I carried it for a while. I have three issues with it. First, it did not like certain training rounds (although it feed every type of hollow point I fed it). Second, they have a poor finish which was worn off in short order (carried IWB during the summer). And, third, magazines are hard to find at normal prices. They are only selling the gun (last I heard) with one magazine. Replacements on eBay are in the $90 range. Just something to consider. Probably have up to a 1000 rounds through mine.
I have only fired one mid-sized SCCY and it seemed like a well functioning gun, so my experience is less.
I have only fired one mid-sized SCCY and it seemed like a well functioning gun, so my experience is less.
the dark
New member
I had a TCP that I bought as a BUG - reliable for a while then problems. Ejector broke. They fixed. Barrel lug broke, replacement barrel would not fit pistol, finally they had it for 3 months then sent a new one which I promptly sold to buy a Glock 42 for my wife. Once you return it a few times, you have paid enough to replace it. Had a friend who had one that had problems from the beginning and was replaced then sold.
In both .380 and 9mm, I would go Glock - but that's just me since I own a 17, 19, 26, and 42. Have considered G43 for a BUG.
I would not go Taurus. Wife used to carry Keltec P3AT - has always been reliable if ugly. Harsh to shoot compared to the G42. That is my unofficial BUG at the moment.
Thank you. This is the type of information I'm looking for. The unavailablity of magazines at a reasonable price is definitely something that crosses the 709 off my list. A quick search did turn up two online retailers that claim to have them in stock. Tombstone Tactical for $33.92 and Link Removed for $42.95. Has there always been a shortage, or is this just recent?
Edit: It appears that Hi Point magazines will fit.
Edit: It appears that Hi Point magazines will fit.
the dark
New member
Lifetime warranties are great - Taurus has one, too. But even Davidson's warranty notes "... pay for the return shipping." I never paid to repair it, just to ship it to them. That is the catch - shipping a firearm is not cheap.
How I determine if it is a good gun.......does it go bang every time I pull the trigger? I don't care what a gun looks like or who made it. If you put 300 rounds through it and it goes bang every round it is a good gun. I own only two pistols, a Bersa Thunder .32 acp and a Kel Tec P-32 .32 acp. These are not real expensive guns, but the Bersa has 900 flawless rounds thru it since I bought it, the Kel Tec has 600 flawless rounds thru it.
These are good guns, I have no doubt that when I pull the trigger these guns will go bang. :dance3:
These are good guns, I have no doubt that when I pull the trigger these guns will go bang. :dance3:
bofh
Banned
Let's ignore for the moment the .32 ACP nonsense and that Bersa hasn't produced the Thunder in .32 ACP for a number of years, some may consider the Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP an option. It is a copy of the Walther PPK in .380 ACP. It is heavy, which means it is able to absorb recoil. However, it needs to be heavy as it is a pure blowback gun and does not have a locked breech mechanism.
As for caliber discussion, there is already a thread with cluznar's opinions and fairy tales.
BigSlick
New member
I owned a Sccy. It was the first model they came out with. It was reliable and went bang every time with round nose and HP's. My only issue was with the safety. Sometimes but not every time mind you, the safety would click back on. The it wouldn't go bang until you turned the safety back off. This happened only when shooting HP ammo as it was a little hotter than range ammo. The safety was backwards in my opinion. Sccy said send them back and they would fix the safety so that would not happen again. I sent mine in and it was returned to me in about two weeks. They paid return shipping. It was a nice gun for the price and no other malfunctions other than the safety selector. Accuracy was on par for a gun of that size. The safety selector issue I believe has been fixed on the gen 2 models. I traded mine for a Sub2k a few years ago. If your budget allows for a Glock 43 then that is the one I would go with.
