School Zones

[ohio pat]

I found this while researching the carrying of concealed handguns within 1000 feet of a school.

Link Removed

On page 2 section 1, words to the effect that a licensed ccw permit holder may carry his/her concealed handgun. One stipulation is that the state did a backgound check on the permit holder.

Am I reading this correcty that this is the exception to the law of no firearms in a school gun free zone (1000 ft from the school)?

Pat Olvey
email [email protected]
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hamilton County

 

[mrjam2jab]

A person with a carry permit FROM THE STATE THE SCHOOL IS IN is exempt from the federal school zone.

If you travel to IN on your OH LCH you are no longer exempted.

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to
do so by the State in which the school zone is located
or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of
the State or political subdivision requires that, before
an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political
subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;

 

[NavyLCDR]

A person with a carry permit FROM THE STATE THE SCHOOL IS IN is exempt from the federal school zone.

If you travel to IN on your OH LCH you are no longer exempted.

Yep.

And, here's your Ohio school zone law:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.122

Washington law is even better...in WA a CPL holder can walk right up to the door of the school building, openly or concealed carrying a firearm, when picking up or dropping off a student. Only the inside of the school building is off limits in that situation in Washington.

Also, here's an ATF letter explaining that out of state permits do NOT exempt one from the Federal school zone law, regardless of reciprocity:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

 

[santa]

The federal law is probably the best reason to get a non-resident permit(if available) in states that you frequently visit. For example if you live in Washington state and travel to Idaho it would pay to get Idahos' non-resident permit even though Idaho recognizes the Washington permit because you would be safe from the federal law(in Idaho) because youd have a permit from the state in which the school was located. This is NOT reciprocity. It wasnt until recently that I heard that the feds were charging people with violating the Federal school zone law. The key phrase is "licensed to do so by the state in which the school zone is located".

 

[gnat]

Yep.

And, here's your Ohio school zone law:

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.

Washington law is even better...in WA a CPL holder can walk right up to the door of the school building, openly or concealed carrying a firearm, when picking up or dropping off a student. Only the inside of the school building is off limits in that situation in Washington.

Also, here's an ATF letter explaining that out of state permits do NOT exempt one from the Federal school zone law, regardless of reciprocity:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

Yep, and Oregon is even better, with an OR CHL you can walk right in and watch a Basketball game or talk to your kids teacher.leasantry:

 

[ohio pat]

school zone exceptions

I went to the url Lawriter - ORC - 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.

Why doesn't section (b) authorize the carrying of concealed handguns within 1000 ft of a school?? We are driving past the school on a highway. We are not even on the school grounds dropping or picking up our children.

Section B specifically states “The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state.

Please tell me what am I missing?????

Here is a quote from Lawriter - ORC - 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.


(3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply:

(a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.

(b)The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.[/U]

(c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).[/B]

(d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.

(4) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun all of the following apply:

(a) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.

(b) The person is the driver or passenger in a motor vehicle and is in the school safety zone while immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child.

(c) The person is not in violation of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code.

Pat Olvey
email [email protected]
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hamilton County

 

[ohio pat]

school zones

If my quotation of the Ohio Law regarding a valid ccw holder from Ohio or one of the states that Ohio has reciprocity with is incorrect, I like the idea of having a non-res permit from states that you visit.

But, I am not a lawyer, I only have my opinion of the law, that is why I carry CCW insurance. My carrier, Hylant Insurance Co, will cover up to $15,000 for attorney fees for civil or criminal cases.

Personally besides Ohio I have Florida and Utah.

Also, I have never heard of BATF involved in school zone violations, I can see it in extreme cases such as an active shooter in the school.

Maybe it might be appropriate to say, "Don't do anything wrong and they will not know you were there and concealed means no one can see it."

Keep the faith,

Pat Olvey
email [email protected]
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hamilton County

 

[Hardcorp]

In Michigan

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

MSP - Pistol Free Areas

 

[S&W645]

Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian

MSP - Pistol Free Areas

While I agree with their thinking, Fed GFSZA still says that that does not apply to someone from out of state who doesn't have a Mich CCW permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You have to remember, due to the supremacy clause in the Constitution, a state statute cannot cause something to be legal which is illegal at the Federal level.

 

[ohio pat]

school zones

I have retyped but listed the reference number, please excuse the caps if thy offend you.

Link Removed
FROM atf-p-5310-1

HOWEVER IN THE FOLLOWING SITUATIONS THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD NOT BE IN POSSESSION OF A FIREARM IN VIOLATION OF 922(Q)(A)
THE INDIVIDUAL IS LICENSED BY THE STATE OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION TO POSSESS A FIREARM, AND THE LICENSE WAS ISSUED AFTER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS VERIFIED THAT THE INDIVIDUAL IS QUALIFIED TO RECEIVE THE LICENSE.

Where is the conflict between federal and state law, the federal law is giving the state the opportunity to issue the ccw permit and stating that the permit holder is not in violation of federal law.

I will grant everyone a problem. The problem might be if you have a ccw permit from your home state and you are in a school zone of another state and somehow get stopped and you have a firearm in your possession.

It is going to be officer discretion to try to take any action against the permit holder especially if the state you are visiting in has reciprocity with your home state.

(Should be take our NRA Stickers off of our cars so we cannot be profiled?)

If you are in your home state with your permit in a home state school zone I do not see a problem, but again I have my ccw insurance just in case.

Again I am not a lawyer

Pat Olvey
email [email protected]
Cincinnati, Ohio
Hamilton County

 

[NavyLCDR]

^^^^^ Correct. I thought that is what we were all saying...

 

[Derby]

Supremacy Clause

You have to remember, due to the supremacy clause in the Constitution, a state statute cannot cause something to be legal which is illegal at the Federal level.

That is true. Here is, in part, the Supremacy Clause as stated in the second paragraph of Article VI of the US Constitution.

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land . . .” (Italics added)

This means the federal law must be Constitutional before the Supremacy Clause would apply. The second amendment tells me that all federal firearms laws are not 'in Pursuance thereof' so state laws may trump them.

 

[Hardcorp]

While I agree with their thinking, Fed GFSZA still says that that does not apply to someone from out of state who doesn't have a Mich CCW permit.

You are correct that only applies to those with CCW permits.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are correct that only applies to those with CCW permits.

...from the same state the school zone is located in.

 

[santa]

...from the same state the school zone is located in.

So if you have a non-resident permit from the same state the school zone is located in you are not breaking the law.

 

[astute]

When!!!!!!!

I would like to know when any of the "Gun Rights" groups (N.R.A., G.O.A., JPFO, or any others are going to lobby to have this insane technically amended.:angry: Personally, I'd like to see it abolished, but I think there's a "FAT CHANCE" of that happening.:hang3:

 

[NavyLCDR]

So if you have a non-resident permit from the same state the school zone is located in you are not breaking the law.

Correct

 

[S&W645]

Correct

Yep!