School property


Rogueone

New member
I have a question in regards to VA's no guns at schools laws. I'd read somewhere that the Gun Free School Zones applied to "school sponsored activities". I wish I could remember where this was as it was only a couple weeks ago. Part of the commentary was that if a CHP person was on school grounds for say, a little league game, that since it wasn't a "school" event, the person was allowed to carry.

After talking to a friend who has carried much longer than I and is usually much more familiar with all the rules, he was under the impression the restrictions in VA were 100% no time. So now I'm wondering, say I want to take my daughter up to shoot hops on the school's blacktop either a couple hours after school, or say on a weekend. Is that still "illegal" even with no "school" activities or persons in attendance within the building or it's grounds??

I'd hate to get busted for a felony while shooting hoops on the weekend because I misinterpreted the law or misunderstood.

Please assist, and thanks,

RogueOne
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
K-12 schools

In most States, K-12 schools are prohibited regardless of whether school is in session or there's a K-12 school sponsored event. This is indeed the case in VA under CofVA 18.2-308.1(B)(i). VA like NV also extends this prohibition to school buses as well. Legal CCW in K-12 schools is the exception rather than the norm in most States. I have yet to see a State where the prohibition applies while school is in session.

The school function prohibition applies to publicly accessible property outside of a K-12 school. An example being a high school football game being held at a public park that has a football field.
 

stumpjumper101

New member
school zones

I remember reading in the daily press about a man i believe in York County who went to a school board meeting that was off school property openly carring and was arrested i believe. The article was was probably late spring of last year. the School board meeting was not on school property but was a school function open to the public, and the individual was fighting the issue. Im pretty sure it was front page of the local section. Didnt ever hear what the end result was. Far as school property goes the way i read it as long you have a CWP and you leave it in your car when you step out of it your legal. should you venture to the ball field or go inside while packin your no longer legal.
 

Rogueone

New member
ok, so you guys feel my understanding that at no time is the rule, regardless if school is in or not?

shucks
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
That is correct

If the real estate is a K-12 school, it needs to stay in your vehicle. This is the typical case in most States. The only do or shall issue States which do not have a K-12 school as a prohibited area for lawful CCW are AL, DE, MO, OR, NH, UT and WA (picking up and dropping off students only). Your may (not) issue States typically have little or no prohibited areas. Keep in mind the Federal GFZA. You can't carry within 1000 feet of a school on a recognized or reciprocal CCW. IMO, this could be overturned if someone challenged it under the US Constitution under the same case law that overturned the original Fed GFZA which had no exemption for a CCW issued by the State or political subdivision of the State the K-12 school is physically in. It's the same issue, the Federal Government cannot tell a State what endorsements, licenses or permits to carry are not valid within their borders. The problem is that whomever is the test case would most likely have their 2A in limbo pending the the court ruling.

I'm not a lawyer but this prohibition IMO does not extend to an administrative building because there is no instruction going on at an administrative building.

A "school" is where K-12 instruction occurs, if no K-12 instruction occurs it is therefore legal unless there's another portion of the Code of VA which extends to that specific government building. School board meetings are not a place where students are at or are intended to be. So unless there were K-12 students there during the board meeting and are there exclusively for that board meeting, it should be dismissed in court. It is a forum for the general public to address issues on how the school district is run.

The only government buildings I see as being prohibited areas under the Code of VA are courthouses and public airports. LEOs aren't happy with this because you can legally carry in a law enforcement facility unless it's part of a courthouse building or correctional/detention facility.
 
D

DrWho

Guest
I remember reading in the daily press about a man i believe in York County who went to a school board meeting that was off school property openly carring and was arrested i believe. The article was was probably late spring of last year. the School board meeting was not on school property but was a school function open to the public, and the individual was fighting the issue. Im pretty sure it was front page of the local section. Didnt ever hear what the end result was. Far as school property goes the way i read it as long you have a CWP and you leave it in your car when you step out of it your legal. should you venture to the ball field or go inside while packin your no longer legal.

Link to the story

Link Removed
 

xd.40

XD.40
...

You may only possess a firearm on school grounds if it is in your car AND you have a concealed handgun permit. You may leave it locked in your vehicle while you go inside or play sports. If school is held at the location, you are not allowed to carry concealed unless you are a Police Officer. The only way you may possess a firearm on any school grounds is if you have a permit and it is concealed and in your vehicle. Plain and simple. Open carry isn't allowed.
 
Last edited:

Rogueone

New member
You can't carry within 1000 feet of a school on a recognized or reciprocal CCW.

interesting. So what happens if I live within 1000' of the school? I suspect if someone took a tape measurement from the school "property" to my house, as a crow flies, I'd be within 1000', and I know for sure from my parent's house it would, as the school is across the street behind the homes on that side of the road.

Based on that stipulation, wouldn't it be impossible for persons living around the school to carry??

hmm...
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Nope, see 18 USC § 922(q)(2)(B)(i)

Nope, there's a specific clause of the Link Removed which exempts "on private property not part of school grounds." You need an endorsement, license or permit to carry within a school zone except on private property.

Furthermore, the FGFSZA does not apply if the firearm is in a locked container and unloaded (18 USC § 922(q)(2)(B)(iii)). So in accordance to Federal law, if you unload and lock up your CCW prior to entering the school zone you are legal if you don't have a permit to carry unless there's a State law prohibiting firearms, loaded or unloaded, secured within your vehicle within a school zone.
 

Rogueone

New member
thanks Net,

now here's an interesting response to that.

You said {You need an endorsement, license or permit to carry within a school zone except on private property.}, so here's a scenario.

In Virginia, we have open carry laws, so it's possible to be open carrying while driving down a local road, Smoketown Rd in this instance, and you'll pass thru the high school "25mph speed zone" and the school grounds butts up to the road. Since the road is "public" property, based on this description of the law, is a person NOT carrying a CCW license in violation of the law for driving down a major 6 lane road on the way to the local shopping mall, or on the way to the interstate, because they had to pass the school on the way??
 

NavyGuy

New member
Remember, you pay property tax on your car in VA, so wouldn't your car be private property, as long as you remain in the vehicle?
 

SteveB

New member
This straight from Va State Police website-------------
§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.

The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

As used in this section:

"Stun weapon" means any device that emits a momentary or pulsed output, which is electrical, audible, optical or electromagnetic in nature and which is designed to temporarily incapacitate a person.
 

SteveB

New member
thanks Net,

now here's an interesting response to that.

You said {You need an endorsement, license or permit to carry within a school zone except on private property.}, so here's a scenario.

In Virginia, we have open carry laws, so it's possible to be open carrying while driving down a local road, Smoketown Rd in this instance, and you'll pass thru the high school "25mph speed zone" and the school grounds butts up to the road. Since the road is "public" property, based on this description of the law, is a person NOT carrying a CCW license in violation of the law for driving down a major 6 lane road on the way to the local shopping mall, or on the way to the interstate, because they had to pass the school on the way??

on public road does not count, only entering school property
 

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