Safety or Not to Safety

[ezkl2230]

Lack of a safety is also why I like my Glock 21. It was also my last duty weapon before I retired from law enforcement.

I like Glocks. The first sidearm I ever fired was the Glock 20. Beautiful piece of machinery, and despite what I hear from others who have fired the 10mm, I didn't find it difficult to control at all. First time out at 10 yards I maintained a 3" group in center mass, which I didn't think was too bad. Muzzle rise was incredibly manageable, and the recoil was nothing to speak of. Felt like it was part of my hand.

These days, however, I find the Springfield fits my hand better, and as I said, I like the combination of safeties. It really does away with the need for a thumb safety.

 

[wolf_fire]

Has anyone's opinions changed in the 10 days since the last post here?:

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/39130-da-sa-pistol-safety-off.html

Good grief.

But, to end this post on a positive note; at least it wasn't a fourth thread started this week about carrying with a round in the chamber or not...

I've been here for quite some time Navy.. .never saw that thread. Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully the OP, who posted his first question in this thread will find that thread useful too.

 

[jasonb92]

I only have one pistol with a safety, my EAA Witness 45. It's a little big and heavy for concealed carry. My other 3 pistols have no safety.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I've been here for quite some time Navy.. .never saw that thread. Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully the OP, who posted his first question in this thread will find that thread useful too.

I might have been too harsh in my post. But, geez.... there are just some topics that have a new thread started about the same thing at least once a month.... and I guess I am the type of person that likes to just find answers myself from what is already available rather than just asking the question with no research to begin with. I need to accept that not everyone is like that.

 

[Spartan]

My primary handguns have always been pistols with frame-mounted, thumb safeties. 1911, HK USP, FNP, etc. It is part of my training and thought process to draw, present, and then drop the safety just before acquiring the sight picture to fire. At the point I drop the safety I am psychologically crossing the line at which I will only refrain from firing if the target disarms and goes into full retreat. Due to the size of my hands and/or dexterity I have no problem engaging the safety without changing my grip.
.
I guess you could say I have a two-stage "condition red". Stage one is from the point where I know I must draw until the point when I have presented my pistol, thumb on the safety. During this stage I am assessing the target's reaction to the knowledge that I am armed. Given no reaction to show that the target is standing down I proceed immediately to stage two - disengage safety, sight alignment, fire.

 

[timtheref]

The problem with many, maybe most, thumb safeties out there is that they're not made for southpaws. I cannot tell you the number of guns I liked the look and feel of in the gun store, and then when holding it in my hand, discovered the safeties were on the wrong side, and non-reversible. I have stuck with Kahrs or Springfield XD models for concealed carry, as I am able to use the ambidextrous or non-existent external safeties without any trouble. Just one more way lefties get screwed I guess.

 

[wolf_fire]

I might have been too harsh in my post. But, geez.... there are just some topics that have a new thread started about the same thing at least once a month.... and I guess I am the type of person that likes to just find answers myself from what is already available rather than just asking the question with no research to begin with. I need to accept that not everyone is like that.

I was trying to be diplomatic and make a point since I have respect for you Navy and for a lot of what you post.

With that said, your can do it attitude is actually something I admire. People should know how to research the forums. However, I always check how many posts they've had before I say that since sometimes the forum to a new subscriber can be a bit awkward to navigate. If however they've had several hundred posts and are still asking the same types of questions that have been hashed and rehashed, I shall bow gracefully and let you have em'. LOL.

 

[Michaelc748]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. and to NavyLCDR, you are correct but I am new to the forum but I usually look back through posts a ways to see if there are any recent posts about the topic, if not, I just assume it hasn't been talked about it awhile. My mistake on this one.
As for what kind of gun that I carry, it is the new Taurus PT111 Millenium G2 that does have a trigger safety on it. With that and the double action first pull of the trigger is fairly stout, I'm not worried about a accidental trigger pull.
I do also have a Taurus 92 and there is no way I would carry that cocked without the safety on.

 

[BluesStringer]

I do also have a Taurus 92 and there is no way I would carry that cocked without the safety on.

If it's as good a copy of the Beretta 92F as it looks, there's no way you even can carry it cocked with the safety on. Engaging the safety on that weapon decocks it, doesn't it? After loading the chamber and decocking, that weapon should be perfectly safe to disengage the safety lever and carry chambered/safety off/DA mode for first round out.

Blues

 

[Michaelc748]

If it's as good a copy of the Beretta 92F as it looks, there's no way you even can carry it cocked with the safety on. Engaging the safety on that weapon decocks it, doesn't it? After loading the chamber and decocking, that weapon should be perfectly safe to disengage the safety lever and carry chambered/safety off/DA mode for first round out.

Blues

It is one of Taurus' original copies that did NOT have the decocker. I can decock it manually but that is always a little sketchy and not something I like to do.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. and to NavyLCDR, you are correct but I am new to the forum but I usually look back through posts a ways to see if there are any recent posts about the topic, if not, I just assume it hasn't been talked about it awhile. My mistake on this one.
As for what kind of gun that I carry, it is the new Taurus PT111 Millenium G2 that does have a trigger safety on it. With that and the double action first pull of the trigger is fairly stout, I'm not worried about a accidental trigger pull.
I do also have a Taurus 92 and there is no way I would carry that cocked without the safety on.

I apologize for being so rough in my first reply post. I have a Taurus PT-145 Millenium Pro. My particular holster has a problem with flicking the safety off due to movement. After having found my gun several times in the holster with the safety off, I just started carrying it that way. The only thing the manual safety accomplishes is to keep the trigger from being pulled far enough to the rear to discharge the gun. All of the other internal safeties that keep the gun from discharging without the trigger being pulled are unaffected. The trigger is heavy enough that I am completely comfortable with "Don't pull the trigger and the gun won't discharge" being the only safety required when the gun is holstered.

I can manipulate the safety while the gun is holstered. So my rule is, if the gun comes out of the holster for any reason other than self defense, I deliberately move the safety lever to on before withdrawing the gun from the holster. When I am returning the gun to the holster, the safety is on until the gun is in the holster, and then I deliberately move the safety lever to off. Periodically throughout the day, I will feel that the safety lever is still in the off position. I have never found it to become accidentally moved to the on position.

When drawing from the holster for practice self defense, I do make the motion of moving the safety to the off position, just in case.... you never know.

I had a Taurus PT-92 old version without a decocker. I loved that gun, but the ex-wife stole it before the divorce. I would always manually decock the gun and carry it with hammer down and safety off. The safe procedure for decocking a hammer fired pistol without a decocking lever is to point the gun in a safe direction, insert index finger of the non firing hand between the hammer and the firing pin. Hold the hammer back with thumb of firing hand. Pull trigger to rear and hold. Lower the hammer towards your index finger in front of the firing pin just enough to allow the trigger to reset. Release the trigger. At this time, all of the internal safeties keeping the hammer from the firing pin are engaged. Gently lower the hammer while at the same time slowly removing the finger in front of the firing pin. Worse case scenario you get a smashed finger or cut finger. Actually, I am more wary of guns with decockng levers than those without.

 

[BluesStringer]

It is one of Taurus' original copies that did NOT have the decocker. I can decock it manually but that is always a little sketchy and not something I like to do.

Ahh, OK, I didn't realize that. I carry a weapon daily that has to be decocked manually, and that's the one thing I really hate about it. I have had it for several years, and will never be 100% comfortable with lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber, but I've been carrying DA/SA type weapons for almost 40 years, and am also not comfortable carrying it cocked & locked like a 1911. Like your Taurus (apparently), the manufacturer made a version with a decocker maybe three or four years after I bought the two that I have. Might upgrade one day, but ain't possible for the time being.

Anyway, hammer down, no safety for me, long DA pull and what's between my ears are my safeties.

Blues

 

[ezkl2230]

I might have been too harsh in my post. But, geez.... there are just some topics that have a new thread started about the same thing at least once a month.... and I guess I am the type of person that likes to just find answers myself from what is already available rather than just asking the question with no research to begin with. I need to accept that not everyone is like that.

Face it, it does get tiresome answering the same questions over and over again when a brief search of the forum will turn up a dozen or more threads that deal with the same question! How many threads are there that deal with the questions, do you use the safety and do you carry with one in the chamber?!

I prefer doing my own research as well, but I like the feedback on ideas once I have done the research.

 

[Reynard]

I completely agree. I carry a Ruger SR9c - has both a trigger safety and a thumb safety. When I carry, I carry with one in the chamber, safety off. Most of the time, the thumb safety is there for a reason, however, I think Ruger went overkill adding both the trigger safety and thumb safety on a striker fire DAO pistol.

While I carry the same pistol, I carry with the safety on, for the time being. I've trained myself to click it off as I pull to fire. I'll probably stop using it, eventually.

 

[streetfools]

If it's as good a copy of the Beretta 92F as it looks, there's no way you even can carry it cocked with the safety on. Engaging the safety on that weapon decocks it, doesn't it? After loading the chamber and decocking, that weapon should be perfectly safe to disengage the safety lever and carry chambered/safety off/DA mode for first round out.

Blues

My Ruger SR22 is the same way, once you've chambered a round, and the Hammer is in the cocked position, putting the safety on will automatically de-cock the hammer. And as for de-cocking your gun (1911 styling) after a round has been loaded into the chamber, I have heard horror stories, albeit rare, but if your gun malfunctions some how and your thumb is on the hammer, when it ejects the spent shell and cycles a round, it will also cycle your thumb off. Not sure if this ever really happens but it seems plausible and something to be conscious of? :fie: