Safe Storage of HD / Children in Home

[jpoint]

Hello Forum

I'm new to the forum. A nice community. Glad to become a part.


I'm somewhat new to the firearms community. My questions is concerning safe and ready storage of home defense firearm at home when children are present in the home. I have a 5 year old in the house. I am planning on purchasing a Sentry Quick Access Bio-metric Pistol Safe. Here:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCoQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D001syVM1pS8&ei=79uoVN3JKMudNt_Jg4gE&usg=AFQjCNHcaixAMJIgQykbFSiHefYcNeu9Og&bvm=bv.82001339,d.eXY

I suppose part of my challenge is overcoming concerns with malfunctioning of even any electronic safe, yet I feel push button safes to be too much to fumble with for me in a time of need, and thumbprint reader provides much quicker access. "Having a gun means you need a safe place to store it. However, it also needs to be readily accessible should you need it. As a concerned parent, you want to be able to protect your family from any external threat, but you also want to keep them safe from accidents...How do you balance these two concerns?"

I realize this is a redundant conversation that is constantly ongoing, yet I would like suggestions on methods of safe and quick access storage of home defense handgun within the home that allows quick/ready access to firearm while keeping children safe. Ive posted some suggestions ive seen below (some of which im sure will cause stirr).

Bio-metric Safe Usage
Keeping Magazine on Person and Firearm in Quick Access
Keeping Firearm and Magazine on Person Separately
Keeping Loaded Firearm on Person

 

[bofh]

A few clarifications. A fingerprint reader does not provide much quicker access. It takes some time to reliably read and match the fingerprint. Also, if your finger is dirty, it may not open and you have to retry with a different finger (or use the buttons anyway or the backup key). The same goes for any finger tip cuts and abrasions. Push-button key locks are actually quite quick. Since you use the same push-button combination overtime, you quickly get used to it. If you use the fingerprint reader, you may actually forget the backup button combination, so the hard key is your backup to the fingerprint reader

I exclusively use the Deluxe versions of the Link Removed and Link Removed for handgun storage. These are electronic push-button safes that run on external power and have a backup battery. The buttons are aligned such that the safe can be quickly opened with one hand without looking at the safe. The safe can be bolted down and the Deluxe version has a motion detection sensor with a loud alarm.

Note that the Sentry Quick Access Bio-metric Pistol Safe only takes 4 finger prints, which is barely enough for one person (left-hand index and thumb + right-hand index and thumb). The Biometric version of the Gunvault takes 15 finger prints, but does not have the motion detector of the Deluxe version.

The gun is either loaded on your person (in a holster) or loaded in the safe. Keeping the magazine separate from an unloaded gun is just a recipe for disaster. If you wakeup during the night, "in which pants did I leave the magazine?" is the last thing you want to think about. Keeping one or two extra loaded magazines in the safe is a good idea, such as to be able to deal with magazine failures and to do a tactical reload after an initial encounter.

Practice safe gun handling and shooting. Take a training class or two. Many new gun owners completely underestimate the value of training (learning new things) and practice (regularly exercising the learned). If you regularly go to a gun range, handling the gun safely and hitting your target will become natural to you.

Teach your child the Eddie Eagle program: Link Removed and Link Removed.

Lastly, using your gun should be your last option. Have a plan for what to do in case of a home invasion. Your family should gather in the same room. Employ preventative measures. Use a home security system. Lock your doors and lower-level windows. Make your doors more resistant against kick-ins. Install outside lights with motion detectors.

 

[jg1967]

I just keep mine on me. Don't need to get it, can't forget where I put it, will be first to get to it.

 

[jrs]

Hello, and welcome to the forum.

There are almost as many options for safe storage of weapons as there are different weapons. First, it depends on what type of weapons you keep for HD. In our case, we had handguns for everyday carry, a Mossberg 500JIC for more firepower to handle intruders in the middle of the night (great neighborhood, but scumbag drug dealers are not limited to inner city neighborhoods). Your needs may vary.

For us, the handguns were in small safes near the bed at night, with the shotgun tucked just behind the corner of the bed. For long guns, there are magnet mounts which can be attached to the bed behind the headboard for quick access. There are also quick access "hide in plain sight" alternatives such as in wall cabinets which look like mirrors, but have a magnet release to slide the mirror out of the way, exposing the guns behind. These can accommodate both long and handguns.

It all depends on your situation and threat levels. You need to assess what type of weapons you will need and when.
In the case of a home invasion, do you have time to get to the safe, open it and stop the threat?

During the day, is it the delivery man of someone dressed like a delivery man? Where is the nearest weapon and what kind is it? Is it suitable to stop the threat? Where in your home are you at various times and where is your weapon? In other words, if you or your wife are in the kitchen preparing lunch or dinner, is the safe in your bedroom upstairs or in a different part of the house? Scumbags aren't going to wait for you to gather the kids and get to the bedroom to retrieve the guns.

If you carry, do you keep it on yourself in your home? Do you stow it?

In your family room, you can consider a shelf unit that looks like a wooden shelf, but has a concealed compartment which drops down to access a handgun. If installed when the kids are out of the house, they and anyone else won't even suspect they are there.

So, unfortunately, there is no "one size fits all" solution. You need to assess your needs in the home, then make some decisions as to where you may need you gun(s) in your home and research appropriate solutions to fit your needs and your budget.

 

[apvbguy]

I just keep mine on me. Don't need to get it, can't forget where I put it, will be first to get to it.

do you sleep with it on you?
kids have been known jump into bed with sleeping parents, guess what, you are sleeping and there is the gun.
your response is most irresponsible

 

[jpoint]

bofh

Thanks for your reply. You have provided some great feedback with some good points.

1 You are right concerning the fingerprint reader and their reliability.
2 You are right concerning the "push button" (old fashion but reliable) I guess you would get used to it with regular consistent practice.
3 I've seen your safe of choice (Gunvault MiniVault) online and in locale shops. I've always thought having to put your hand in a "particular position to open the safe" presented some concern in a "quick access situation". But I guess consistent practice is key here too. I'm not sure it's my choice for that reason. Perhaps another safe with similar tactile buttons not requiring any particular hand position. I also prefer the stell bolt locking system. Seems more reliable as well. Any other safe ideas? Here's a very interesting link concerning reliable vs. non-reliable safes anyone should see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erGOJxQIf5c Does the Gunvault utilize a magnetic locking systems as employed in the safes viewed in this video.

4

The gun is either loaded on your person (in a holster) or loaded in the safe. Keeping the magazine separate from an unloaded gun is just a recipe for disaster. If you wakeup during the night, "in which pants did I leave the magazine?" is the last thing you want to think about. Keeping one or two extra loaded magazines in the safe is a good idea, such as to be able to deal with magazine failures and to do a tactical reload after an initial encounter.

This is (such) a good point. Not that I haven't heard it before, but you have put in great terms and it has made me begin to "rethink" the idea of carrying during the day. I don't want to appear to be an extremist to others but we seem to be living in more extreme times.

5

Teach your child the Eddie Eagle program: Eddie Eagle GunSafe|Why Teach the Eddie Eagle Program? and Eddie Eagle GunSafe|Information For Parents.

I just saw EE yesterday for the first time. Haven't checked it out, I will. Ultimately I also view the deployment of one's firearm as a last result, and belief evasion to be a first and preferred response to a bad situation if possible. I believe in the evade, barricade, arm, call 911 (safe room) plan-- and my family has one. My children know the 4-point safety rules. I plan on enrolling the entire family in a HD/Safety course as well.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[jpoint]

jg1967

I just keep mine on me. Don't need to get it, can't forget where I put it, will be first to get to it.

I have been considering this more and more (for during the day) and "safeing" it at night near me. I live in the worse criminal neighborhood area at the moment. It's taking a minute for me to adjust to the idea of carrying in home during the day, strengthening confidence regarding firearm and carrying around children/family, and ridding my mind of viewing myself as an extremist for doing so. But all things considered, I can see why many have chosen this option. (I agree on sleeping with it on your person at night not being probably a good idea around children). My five year old still climbs in bed with us consistently -

 

[jpoint]

jrs

I like this:

if you or your wife are in the kitchen preparing lunch or dinner, is the safe in your bedroom upstairs or in a different part of the house? Scumbags aren't going to wait for you to gather the kids and get to the bedroom to retrieve the guns.

So true! A little comedic way of putting it, but there'd be nothing comedic about finding oneself in that situation at that moment.

 

[jpoint]

You have all been very helpful and (uncritical) in helping me "think through" the specifics of my situation and what might be best for me and my family. You've also offered some great ideas and challenged me to re-think some valuable options. Thanks!

 

[jpoint]

Here's a Good Link To Check Out on Gun Safe Reliability and Safety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erGOJxQIf5c

 

[1-LM]

I also have a first responder (the dog) to slow down or discourage an intruder giving me those few needed seconds to respond.

 

[bofh]

bofh

Thanks for your reply. You have provided some great feedback with some good points.

1 You are right concerning the fingerprint reader and their reliability.
2 You are right concerning the "push button" (old fashion but reliable) I guess you would get used to it with regular consistent practice.
3 I've seen your safe of choice (Gunvault MiniVault) online and in locale shops. I've always thought having to put your hand in a "particular position to open the safe" presented some concern in a "quick access situation". But I guess consistent practice is key here too. I'm not sure it's my choice for that reason. Perhaps another safe with similar tactile buttons not requiring any particular hand position. I also prefer the stell bolt locking system. Seems more reliable as well. Any other safe ideas? Here's a very interesting link concerning reliable vs. non-reliable safes anyone should see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erGOJxQIf5c Does the Gunvault utilize a magnetic locking systems as employed in the safes viewed in this video.

4

This is (such) a good point. Not that I haven't heard it before, but you have put in great terms and it has made me begin to "rethink" the idea of carrying during the day. I don't want to appear to be an extremist to others but we seem to be living in more extreme times.

5

I just saw EE yesterday for the first time. Haven't checked it out, I will. Ultimately I also view the deployment of one's firearm as a last result, and belief evasion to be a first and preferred response to a bad situation if possible. I believe in the evade, barricade, arm, call 911 (safe room) plan-- and my family has one. My children know the 4-point safety rules. I plan on enrolling the entire family in a HD/Safety course as well.

Thanks for your feedback!

If it gives you confidence, the Gunvault MiniVault is California DOJ Approved and endorsed by Rob Pincus (Personal Defense Network). The lock is not magnetic. It is a bolt that is moved via a cable by an electric motor. Older models had issues with the cable breaking after a few years of use, requiring the key to unlock the door. The newer models have been redesigned.

As for the needed position of your hand to open the safe, it is actually easier this way. You put your four fingers in the grooves and just push in the combination. Note that the Gunvault MiniVault button combination includes holding multiple buttons at the same time, e.g., first push the 2nd button, then the 3rd button, and then all four at the same time. This significantly increases the number of possible combinations.

Note that my comment about the gun being either in the safe or on your body is really a safety issue and not a carry issue. If you don't feel confident carrying the gun, then put it in the safe. Always know the (loaded) condition and location of all of your guns. Store guns at secure pre-selected locations. Don't just leave a gun on the kitchen table, because you are alone at home and want to have quicker access to the gun. Also, always carrying your gun doesn't make you appear to be an extremist to others. In the public, most people won't notice that you carry. If they start questioning your choices, explain them to them.

Also, there are other push-button models, such as the purely mechanical Fort Knox Handgun Safes.

 

[ET]

Naturally, the safety of your children is # 1. when my kids were little, my wife insisted on complete child proof measure so that nothing that might happen could " Never " happen. What this does is put your children's curiosity, and potential for disaster at the upper most consideration, but what this does is lower the level of easy access, in the even of a home invasion., You can not place easy access above the kids safety. Some one mentioned finger print reader...I have finger print readers and they are not quick. they require a specific speed in the swipe.. mine have said " swipe faster "
or " swipe slower " . I made my home very hard to access, through windows and doors, giving me time to get to a weapon. Now with no children in the house. I always have a weapon less than 12 inches from me, either on me, on my desk, or in the bed. So with the children in mind, I would make the house fortified against the threat of quick access invasion, and get the best quick access security box, or boxes I could buy. if you have multiple floors in your home, I would get multiple boxes. Just my opinion. Don't underestimate the age of your children and their curiosity. when my grand kids come over, IM always armed, but always concealed.

 

[jg1967]

do you sleep with it on you?
kids have been known jump into bed with sleeping parents, guess what, you are sleeping and there is the gun.
your response is most irresponsible

No I don't but keeping it on me takes care of the largest part of the day. Some people overthink it by hiding gun in every room and the having to worry about children finding them. For nighttime I agree with using a biometric safe.

 

[Bang]

I just keep mine in my kids crib. I put a stalk of broccoli in the trigger guard so he won't touch it.

Seriously though, my safe is in the bedroom with us. It's not fast access but the risk is too great to worry about it.

 

[BC1]

jrs

I like this:
So true! A little comedic way of putting it, but there'd be nothing comedic about finding oneself in that situation at that moment.

Take the course NRA PPITH. It teaches how harden the house, create safe rooms for the family and how to respond during the first sign of entry.

 

[FAS1]

I suppose part of my challenge is overcoming concerns with malfunctioning of even any electronic safe, yet I feel push button safes to be too much to fumble with for me in a time of need, and thumbprint reader provides much quicker access. "Having a gun means you need a safe place to store it. However, it also needs to be readily accessible should you need it. As a concerned parent, you want to be able to protect your family from any external threat, but you also want to keep them safe from accidents...How do you balance these two concerns?"

Glad to see that you are looking to safely store your defensive gun while teaching your kid about gun safety. The good thing is that today you have plenty of options to find one that works for you. For me, I choose mechanical locks only for their proven reliability and durability, not to mention they are as quick to operate as any electronic safe. Yes, you do need to train a little so that it is just as natural as using your handgun. You wouldn't depend on your handgun without training and using it would you? It's really the same thing and not a big deal.

One thing you can do with a mechanical pushbutton lock is to have a relatively complex combination, but pre-punch all or part of the combination when going to sleep making access even simpler and faster. In the morning, just turn the knob counterclockwise to clear and reset. I can access mine entering the full combination and have my gun safely in my hand in just 2 to 3 seconds. The trigger is also covered since it is in a holster when presented to me making it very unlikely that I can grab it by the trigger in the dark and under stress. Buy a heavy gauge box and bolt it to something solid if theft is a concern for you. Good luck!

 

[BC1]

I just keep mine in my kids crib. I put a stalk of broccoli in the trigger guard so he won't touch it.

Now that's funny.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

A good video about kids and guns