Safe school zones


subprime26

New member
I asked this at DefensiveCarry and figured I'd ask here too and see if anyone here has thoughts our experience with this...

I am currently waiting on my CCL and have been trying to research what I can to make sure I stay within the law when I do get it. I have questions regarding my state specifically (Delaware), but want to make sure that I am reading the federal law right first.

As long as I hold a valid state CCL and am in the state I reside in, gun free school zones are covered by state law. Is that correct?
 

subprime26

New member
The second part of this is
I've read the state laws which basically say you can't carry and there is no exemption for a ccl permit. However, the penalty for breaking this law is based on an underlying crime. Here is the list of underlying crimes:

The underlying offenses in Title 11 shall be:

(1) Section 1442.*— Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.

(2) Section 1444.*— Possessing a destructive weapon; class E felony.

(3) Section 1446.*— Unlawfully dealing with a switchblade knife; unclassified misdemeanor.

(4) Section 1448.*— Possession and purchase of deadly weapons by persons prohibited; class F felony.

(5) Section 1452.*— Unlawfully dealing with knuckles-combination knife; class B misdemeanor.

(6) Section 1453.*— Unlawfully dealing with martial arts throwing star; class B misdemeanor.


IF I have a valid ccw permit, I would not be guilty of any of these underlying crimes and the way I am reading it, no penalty.

 The penalty for possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone shall be:

(1) If the underlying offense is a class B misdemeanor, the crime shall be a class A misdemeanor;

(2) If the underlying offense is an unclassified misdemeanor, the crime shall be a class B misdemeanor;

(3) If the underlying offense is a class E, F, or G felony, the crime shall be one grade higher than the underlying offense.

(4) If the underlying offense is a class D felony, the crime shall also be a class D felony.

I would not be guilty of anything correct? Assuming I am not guilty of 2-6, I have a permit to carry concealed so number 1 would not apply. Also there is no reference to open carry which it's legal, so it appears you can open carry also.
 

bigstonebeach

New member
Wish I had seen this sooner, you made me think. Best bet is to forward your thoughts to the State's Attorney General's office and request an opinion. Second-best is to look up a CCDW-versed attorney and ask for a determination. HOWEVER - don't expect an answer from the AG's office. I asked for an opinion over a year ago on open carry where the law says the holster must be fully visible. My question was what about IWB carry with a CCDW where the butt shows. Even sent a photo of how it looks. This administration does nothing to help conservative views on self-protection, as they are ruled by the up-state Obama butt-kissers. We are better off than some, but it could be much better. Time to get started on making the state of Delmarva, starting below the canal.
 

subprime26

New member
I actually did email the A.G. to see if they would clarify anything. I didn't expect to hear anything but to my surprise, I did get a phone call back.

I don't remember what the person's position was, but he worked for the AG' office and I think he said he was a retired police officer.

He didn't really clear anything up specifically, but basically said don't carry at all in the school. As far as school grounds, he said both open and concealed was fine, but highly discouraged open carry. Basically, it's legal, but don't ever do it.

It was nice to actually get a response, but I'm not any more comfortable with what they said. Thinking through this really made me realize that sometimes it's all up to what a judge decides. A good attorney would definitely help, but isn't a guarantee when it comes to unclear laws. The gentleman the called me back did agree that the way the law was written was basically a mess.
 

sandetl

New member
I don't know specifically about Delaware but in most states if you conceal carry in a place that is not lawful to do so, you have not committed a crime but if you refuse to leave when told to and the police have to be called, then your guilty of trespassing.
 

subprime26

New member
Did you mean in a place that IS lawful? If so, yes, trespassing and possibly disturbing the peace. In Delaware, and I would think everywhere else, if you are carrying where it is not lawful you are committing a crime.
 

sandetl

New member
No, in a place that is not lawful as stated above. For instance if you cannot carry into a place that serves alcohol and you do, a place that is marked no concealed carry like private property posted by the owner, etc.
 

sandetl

New member
Of course certain states are more restrictive then others and their laws vary a little on this but it is a topic that is or should be covered during your ccw class for your specific state. Very generally speaking, no crime is committed until you refuse to leave (trespassing). Additional actions that you do such as causing a ruckus (disturbing the peace), pulling out your gun (flourishing or brandishing a firearm), etc will also come into play.
 

apvbguy

New member
I don't know specifically about Delaware but in most states if you conceal carry in a place that is not lawful to do so, you have not committed a crime but if you refuse to leave when told to and the police have to be called, then your guilty of trespassing.

regarding schools zones this advice is WRONG and following it could get you into serious legal issues
 

subprime26

New member
I need to double check the laws here, but I kind of just assumed if you carry anywhere it is illegal to carry, you have committed a crime. Not talking about somewhere the owner doesn't want you to carry, I'm talking about somewhere the law specifically states you are not allowed to carry. Court house, government building, etc.
 

sandetl

New member
I need to double check the laws here, but I kind of just assumed if you carry anywhere it is illegal to carry, you have committed a crime. Not talking about somewhere the owner doesn't want you to carry, I'm talking about somewhere the law specifically states you are not allowed to carry. Court house, government building, etc.

Yes check out your own state and states you travel in for sure. Some it is a crime, for instance Oklahoma. Others it is not unless you refuse to leave, like Missouri. To find out you have to actually pull up the state statutes themselves and see what if any is the penalty or punishment for carrying concealed into the list of places they say not to conceal in. I would definitely not do this in government buildings, courthouses, police stations, etc, no matter what.
 

sandetl

New member
I am also not condoning carrying where the law doesn't allow, just that as you review handgun laws, review all of them not just the little bits that the maps provide you. You will want to know all the information in case you forget to remove your gun or know that you don't want to forget to do this in case your concealed carry is in jeopardy also or you incidentally commit a crime in that scenario because you didn't think of it, didn't see a sign, etc.
 

Delmartom45

New member
After reading the post on school zones it seems that we need clarification. What if you live in a school zone, say across the street from a High School? Are you allowed to carry open or concealed on your own property? What about driving through a school zone and are stopped for speeding, can you be arrested for carrying open or concealed. I have contacted the A.G. before and he responded to me. I'll contact him on this issue and let you know.

I sent this e-mail to DE. State Attorney General several days ago but have yet to receive a reply. Today is 1/29/17

Dear Attorney General Matt Denn,

My name is Thomas XXXXXX, and I live in lower Delaware Sussex County. I am a CCDW holder and would like to ask you a few questions concerning conceal carry and school zones. I ask these questions on behalf of many Delawareans with CCDWs and who wish to stay in compliance with the law. This subject came up during one of our forums. Questions concerning the Delaware code below.
1. Does this law apply to CCDW permit holders?
2. If so does this law apply to driving though a school zone?
3. Concerning paragraph (g) below, how does this apply to a private residence owned by a family with minor childen?

I appreciate the fact that you are extremely busy but if you would be so kind as to take some time to help avoid unintentional violations of the law, it would be greatly appreciated.

Delaware Code Title 11. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 1457. Possession of a

weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone;  class D, E, or F felony;  class A

or B misdemeanor -

(g) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for a violation of this section

that the prohibited conduct took place entirely within a private residence, and

that no person under the age of 18 was present in such private residence at any

time during the commission of the offense.  The affirmative defense established

in this section shall be proved by the defendant by a preponderance of the
 
Last edited:

Delmartom45

New member
It took a very long time to finally get an answer to the question about safe school zones. I was contacted by Delaware State Senator Dave Lawson. He explained the code to me stating that these violations do not apply if you have a valid CCDW permit. Section 1442 is listed under Section 1457. Section 1442 states that it is a violation to carry a concealed weapon for anyone that does not have a valid permit. Once you have the permit the Section 1457 does not apply. That is the way he explained it to me.
Delmartom45
 

bigdave2212

New member
It took a very long time to finally get an answer to the question about safe school zones. I was contacted by Delaware State Senator Dave Lawson. He explained the code to me stating that these violations do not apply if you have a valid CCDW permit. Section 1442 is listed under Section 1457. Section 1442 states that it is a violation to carry a concealed weapon for anyone that does not have a valid permit. Once you have the permit the Section 1457 does not apply. That is the way he explained it to me.
Delmartom45
Hey man, thanks for the update! I appreciate your time in getting some clarity.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

unclejack

New member
Your question was:
As long as I hold a valid state CCL and am in the state I reside in, gun free school zones are covered by state law. Is that correct?
Since you are in the State of Delaware the Delaware law says if you have a CCW you can carry on school property. You can not open carry within 1000 feet of a school zone according to the federal school zone act.
 

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