Due to time constraints and the Xmas rush my wife had my brother in law buy me a handgun as an Xmas present. My brother in law is a SC resident and was able to purchase the gun with a simple background check. I'm told that SC residents can transfer ownership of a firearm with no official or government process or paperwork. I live in NC. My question is does anyone know if we can proceed with this transfer of this firearm across state lines?
S.C. Handgun trasfer of owenership acoss state lines???
- Thread starter Srilee
- Start date
scottboroff
New member
I'm an FFL in NC. In NC, we can sell long arms directly to people in neighboring states (that touch NC). We cannot sell handguns directly to people from other states. We can sell to people in most states either long arms or handguns while transferring through an FFL in their home state. Regardless of what state, the person buying the gun MUST fill out a 4473 form (dictated by federal law). A background must be done either through NICS or as in our state, they can have a valid concealed carry permit which acts as the background check.
Might want to read your Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide and August 2004 ATF newsletter to FFLs. The contiguous (neighboring states (that touch NC)) requirement went away with a 1986 amendment to the GCA of 1968. You (as an FFL) can transfer long guns to residents of about 46-48 different states now.
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My personal belief is that we have enough restrictions that are actually in statutes, we don't need to perpetuate restrictions that don't exist.
NavyLCDR, Obviously you have quite a bit knowledge and by no means do I mean any disrespect with my additional questions; However I just found this on the ATF's website. This staement goes with what I'm being tolad at the local gun shop(s).
Q: Does an unlicensed person need an ATF Form 4473 to transfer a firearm?
No. ATF Form 4473 is required only for transfers by a licensee.
[27 CFR 478.124]
Q: Does an unlicensed person need an ATF Form 4473 to transfer a firearm?
No. ATF Form 4473 is required only for transfers by a licensee.
[27 CFR 478.124]
scottboroff
New member
If you read down further in your quoted regulation, you will note that certain states, NC being one of them, hasn't amended their law to reflect this. Until NC changes their law, then you are setting yourself up unnecessary litigation. It's been discussed many times in the NC legislature, but to my knowledge, this hasn't been changed. I'm not getting in between the state and feds over who overrides who.
That is correct. And when the North Carolina FFL transfers the gun to you they will complete an ATF Form 4473.
If your brother in law, a Sounth Carolina private party non-FFL resident permanently transfers a firearm to you, a North Carolina private party non-FFL resident as a sale or as a gift, your brother in law violates Federal Law, 18 USC 922 (a)(5).
When you receive that firearm into your home state of residence, coming from a private party resident of a different state, you violate Federal Law, 18 USC 922 (a)(3).
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
For the purposes of private party firearms transfers - there is no difference between sales and gifts.
Don't forget, the gun itself must be delivered or shipped to the NC dealer by your brother-in-law. They will log the gun into their bound book as being received from your brother-in-law. They will do the form 4473, the background check, and then transfer physical possession of the gun to you including logging the gun out of their bound book as being transferred to you.
mappow
New member
Sorry to say this but what monster have we created? I understand the straw purchase provision, but really. If my family buys me a gift in another State I'll have to register it with the State I'm living in? And if they buy it for themselves and find out they really don't like it and later want to give it to me. Would we still have to go through all this?
Yes. Unless they died and left it to you as part of their estate.
Don't forget that the gun must be sent to the NC FFL by common carrier (UPS, FED-EX, USPS, etc.) rather then one of you carrying it to the NC FFL. The best way is to have a SC FFL send if to an NC FFL for you and then you can pick it up from the NC FFL. This is the only "legal" way that I know of.
As for long guns there is a SC law that restricts sale or purchase of long guns to neighboring states (NC and GA) so that overrides the Federal restriction. A bill was recently introduced in the SC Legislature to allow SC to follow the Federal guidelines rather than being restricted to NC and GA.
As for long guns there is a SC law that restricts sale or purchase of long guns to neighboring states (NC and GA) so that overrides the Federal restriction. A bill was recently introduced in the SC Legislature to allow SC to follow the Federal guidelines rather than being restricted to NC and GA.
Lots of misinformation to clear up here.
1. There is no statute, Federal, SC or NC that prohibits the South Carolina resident brother-in-law from walking into a North Carolina FFL place of business and delivering the gun in person for transfer. He cannot give it directly to the North Carolina private party, but he is not prohibited from giving it directly to a North Carolina FFL.
2. If the handgun is mailed to the North Carolina FFL via US Post Office, it must be mailed by a SC FFL to the NC FFL because it is illegal for private parties to mail handguns via US Post Office.
3. The handgun may be shipped by the SC brother-in-law to the NC FFL using UPS or FEDEX, that is true.
4. There is no South Carolina statute which prohibits the selling of rifles and shotguns by FFLs to residents of any other state. FN1910, please show us where the South Carolina statute posted below PROHIBITS anything. It doesn't. The Sourth Carolonia statute is a permissive statute that was required prior to the 1986 amendment to the GCA. The August 2004 BATFE Newsletter to FFL explains that this statute is no longer required, and nothing is prohibited by the statute. Please read it, the link is in post #6. The bill in the SC legislature is simply to remove a permissive statute that is meaningless. What prohibits the sale to residents of a couple of other states is the inability of the South Carolina FFL to comply with the other state's laws (such as the California DROS requirement).
We have enough problems with firearms restrictions that actually do exist in statutes. I hate to see members of the pro-gun group creating restrictions that don't exist.
South Carolina statute:
23-31-10. Purchase of rifle or shotgun in contiguous state. Any resident of this State including a corporation or other business entity maintaining a place of business in this State, who may lawfully purchase and receive delivery of a rifle or shotgun in this State, may purchase a rifle or shotgun in a contiguous state and transport or receive the same in this State; provided, that the sale meets the lawful requirements of each such state, meets all lawful requirements of any Federal statute, and is made by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector.
23-31-20. Purchase of rifle or shotgun in this State by resident of contiguous state. A resident of any state may purchase rifles and shotguns in this State if the resident conforms to applicable provisions of statutes and regulations of this State, the United States, and of the state in which the person resides.
That is in complete conflict with what I have been informed of several times when I have asked that very question. In fact I hope you are correct as I have been chastised on either this board or another one for promoting illegal activity when suggesting someone do that.
As to 23-31-10 there was quite a long discussion on another board about what it means an the necessity for H.4494 to get it changed. I was unaware of any restriction until someone posted about the bill being introduced.
The text of the bill can be found here:
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The answer is simple, ask them to provide you with the statute that would be broken.
The restriction was NEVER in South Carolina state law. The South Carolina state law as currently written restricts NOTHING. The restriction was in Federal Law, 18 USC 922 until 1986 when that restriction was removed. Please read the August 2004 BATF Newsletter to FFLs:
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phrogmedic
New member
To clarify a question. Does this mean that private sales between "legal" private citizens of the same state do not need to register pistol/rifle sales through an FFL?
Correct, private sales do not need to have a FFL involved or NICS as long as both the buyer and seller are legal to own a firearm. If you have suspicions that the other party is not eligible then you should not go through with it. An 18 year old can buy from a private party but not a FFL, at least in SC.
Some like to refer to this as the gun-show-loophole but there is no such thing, only private sales that do not involve FFL or NICS.
phrogmedic
New member
thank FN1910, can you send the chapter and verse of the code "law". thanks again
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