Road Rage-Golf Club Scenario

TomC51

TomC51

"SigMan"
I searched through scenarios but didn't come up with one like this one. If I did miss one I am sorry. Okay,here goes..
You're driving along in bumper to bumper traffic.Traffic speeds up and separates and some person cuts right in front of you.Traffic comes to a complete stop and the guy in front of you jumps out of his car with a 2 wood golf club in hand screaming that he is going to cave your head in for some imagined disrespect. As he pass's he:
#1-Takes out your headlight still screaming
#2-Puts a good sized dent in your hood..still screaming about caving your head in.
#3-Rears back and puts club through windshield getting bits of glass all over your wife and yourself..screaming.
#4-Rears back again to take out side window to get to you..screaming obscenities..
You are blocked in by other cars so there is no escape and evading.At which point would you feel justified in pulling your handgun and using it then a short explanation on how you chose and why.
Thank you in advance for your answers.
I have posted this on other forums so you're seeing not double.:)
 
As soon as he approached my vehicle with a deadly weapon in hand while verbally threatening to kill me. He might have took out the headlight burt it wasn't going much farther than that
 
At the point that I fear for my safety or the safety of my family. There are a whole lot of variables that go into that decision. Bashing in my headlight does not bring me to shoot another human being. The gun will be ready as soon as he gets out and I see a golf club in his hand but no shots will be fired until there is a threat to my family or myself. At that point things will move swiftly; no brandishing, no warning shots and no trying to talk or reason with the guy.
 
The absolute second glass breaks and the inside of the vehicle is compromised, the golfer becomes an organ donor.
The headlight and hood can be replaced, my wife or my life cannot.
 
TomC51 said:
I searched through scenarios but didn't come up with one like this one. If I did miss one I am sorry. Okay,here goes..
You're driving along in bumper to bumper traffic.Traffic speeds up and separates and some person cuts right in front of you.Traffic comes to a complete stop and the guy in front of you jumps out of his car with a 2 wood golf club in hand screaming that he is going to cave your head in for some imagined disrespect. As he pass's he:
#1-Takes out your headlight still screaming
#2-Puts a good sized dent in your hood..still screaming about caving your head in.
#3-Rears back and puts club through windshield getting bits of glass all over your wife and yourself..screaming.
#4-Rears back again to take out side window to get to you..screaming obscenities..
You are blocked in by other cars so there is no escape and evading.At which point would you feel justified in pulling your handgun and using it then a short explanation on how you chose and why.
Thank you in advance for your answers.
I have posted this on other forums so you're seeing not double.:)
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, that's simply not enough information to make a judgment call. Armed defense is a very complicated area. We can teach you a skill-set but we can never tell you how a violent encounter may unfold. Rarely are any two encounters the same.
 
After your step #2, my wife is calling 911, and I've pulled my weapon, and made it very obvious that I am armed and ready, not necessarily pointing my weapon in his direction, but letting him know that I am ready, willing and able to use it. If he makes another step in my direction, I point the weapon at him. If he continues to approach, then I guess I will have no choice in the matter at that point. If he stops his tirade, I am getting his insurance information or at the very least a cell phone picture of him, his license plate and auto, as well as the damage to my car.
After that, I pull over, call my legal representative, Texas Law Shield (Link Removed) and wait for the cops to show. He can go on his merry way for all I care, as I have his photo, license plate and insurance info. Presumably, there will be plenty of eyewitness videos from nearby motorists as proof of the altercation, not to mention numerous eye witness accounts available, since in your scenario, the traffic is at a complete stop and plenty of people are able to see what transpired. Shooting someone over something trivial is my last resort, and should be the same for any responsible gun carrying citizen in my opinion. Now, if he has a gun in his hand and not a golf club, all bets are off.
 
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You can kill someone with a golf club. He's obviously enraged, he's carrying a lethal weapon, he's demonstrated intent by attacking my car and he is still moving towards me. I'm not about to let him get close enough to prove that he really means to kill me.
 
KajnMike said:
After your step #2, my wife is calling 911, and I've pulled my weapon, and made it very obvious that I am armed and ready, not necessarily pointing my weapon in his direction, but letting him know that I am ready, willing and able to use it. If he makes another step in my direction, I point the weapon at him. If he continues to approach, then I guess I will have no choice in the matter at that point. If he stops his tirade, I am getting his insurance information or at the very least a cell phone picture of him, his license plate and auto, as well as the damage to my car.
After that, I pull over, call my legal representative, Texas Law Shield (Link Removed) and wait for the cops to show. He can go on his merry way for all I care, as I have his photo, license plate and insurance info. Presumably, there will be plenty of eyewitness videos from nearby motorists as proof of the altercation, not to mention numerous eye witness accounts available, since in your scenario, the traffic is at a complete stop and plenty of people are able to see what transpired. Shooting someone over something trivial is my last resort, and should be the same for any responsible gun carrying citizen in my opinion. Now, if he has a gun in his hand and not a golf club, all bets are off.
Click to expand...
I would have to say that with him waving a potential lethal weapon screaming that he was going to cave my head is NOT a trivial matter.I would say that after #3 but before #4 he would like someone else said become an organ donor.
 
Hopefully by steps two and three my wife has gotten a picture of the maniac as well as his car tag and on the phone with 911, by step four he is less than ten feet away from me and at the drivers side window and looking down the barrel of my .45 or what ever I happen to be carrying that day.......how he chooses to end his day at this point is entirely up to him. I truly suspect that he would choose the retreat method rather quickly and deal with the aggravated assault charges and personal property damages at a later date. JMO.....
 
I'd much rather him be alive to pay for fixing my car! I'll avoid shooting him if I can. As Marc MacYoung said, "Avoid the paperwork!"

That being said, he's not getting a chance to hit me. There's not quite enough info (there never really can be outside of the scenario) to say for sure, but I'd probably shoot after glass breaks and he looks like he's gonna aim for me, not just the car. The gun will be in hand before that, at the headlight, just in case (I get more time to decide that way). If he even gets near my kid, he's done.
 
As some has suggested to pull your firearm and let him see what's in store. I TOTALLY DISAGREE... YOU never brandish a weapon. If you decide to present your firearm then use it. Your not a cop. IF YOU feel a threat to your Life or someone in your family then engage. He verbalized his intentions, presented a weapon and has shown he will use it. Nuf said. A call to 911 will be to advise of the event and have the coroner and investigative team dispatched.
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On a side note not sure why a 2 wood, I'd be going for an iron..........
 
First sign of altercation, I'd call 911 and have my wife stay on the line to give details. After #3, which gives him access to occupants, I would draw and warn him to drop the club. If he tried another swing, or if he jumped off my hood and broke my side window with the club, I would defend myself and my family. Does anyone think any uniformed officer in a cruiser is going to let the maniac break a windshield and side window before he acts? The officer would have him tazed or in the sights of his service sidearm before he got to the cruiser, or after he broke a headlight. Assault with a deadly weapon.

As soon as myself or my family is in immediate danger (windshield broken-out), that crosses a line that changes my mind that the guy is more than a nutbag, but a potential killer. That is the red line in the sand (and no BS, unlike Obama) for me. We fear grave bodily harm, or death at that point, and that will steer my actions. He is wielding a deadly weapon, and one blow could kill.

Hopefully, nothing like this will ever happen, but we live in the real world, unlike our ivory tower elitists (or Follywood actors), who have armed bodyguards do their defending. We don't have a half dozen goons at our beck and call to take nutcases down, and remove them to a cell.
 
festus said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv7NqLxnYB0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

this is somewhat relevant...
Click to expand...

This exact video was used in my OR CCW course, and is also used extensively for police training. He is armed with a deadly weapon. The instant he takes a swing at the window, he is showing intent. The common consensus among police and the instructors I have talked to is that they would not have allowed him to take a second swing. The second I get a clear shot in putting two in his chest.
 
jcreek said:
This exact video was used in my OR CCW course, and is also used extensively for police training. He is armed with a deadly weapon. The instant he takes a swing at the window, he is showing intent. The common consensus among police and the instructors I have talked to is that they would not have allowed him to take a second swing. The second I get a clear shot in putting two in his chest.
Click to expand...
Which is also why you should have FMJ rounds in your gun along with JHPs.
 
A golf club is deadly force.

If you don't believe that, ask Martha Moxley.

The appropriate response to the immediate and credible threat of unlawful deadly force is response with deadly force until the threat is neutralized. In Ohio, castle doctrine wouldn't even require an attempt to retreat while in ones vehicle.

If you don't want to get shot for putting somebody in immediate and credible fear of life and limb, then don't do that.
 
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