Responsibility of passengers to notify

[Firefighterchen]

The question was in relation to passengers in a vehicle. "What if" senerios can be played all day long. If a dude steps foot in my truck or my home and doesn't tell me he's carrying, there will be an issue. And all this cop hating B.S. is starting to piss me off. Yes, there are bad cops. But there a greater majority good than bad. I would sooner trust a good cop who follows the law and is professional and respectful when doing his job. Who doesn't believe in my right to carry, than half the keyboard crackpots that vomit their self proclaimed expertise here. There has to be a balance. I'm not talking about being a political moderate. I'm a whole hearted conservative. But I am also an adult. And all this "authority is bad" crap is stupid. There is more drama here than at a teenage girl sleep over. The crap we go trhough as legal carry citizens may be tragic. But thats no excuse to act like bunch whiny grade school children. Barry sucks, most of the government sucks, some cops suck, all this crap were already know. Quite whining about it and do something. Support and appreciate those in authority that do the right thing. Just because onedog bites you, are you going to say all dogs are dangerous man eaters and should be put down. No, of course not. It makes absolutly no sense to hide the fact that you are legally carrying a firearm from the law.
Until proven different in a court of law. That LEO is at that moment in the right no matter what. Or at least that should be your perspective when handling the situation. Whats that saying..."you might beat the charges but you can't beat the ride down". If the cop wantsto make a big deal. Be respectful, curtious, and complient, make some popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show. If you are wronged, then you've got something to ***** about. You expect everybody in the country who doesn't know you to trust you with a firearm, to give you the benefit of the doubt. But everytime the opportunity rises you pounce on cops. Judging all cops evil gun grabbers and racist even before the stroy ends. This and a few other issue of stupidity are to becoming to much for me. This was supposed to be a place to enjoy jaw jacken with others about my passion. There's just to much stupid in here, I can't breath. To some I say thanks to others I say good riddens.

Thanks defender. Horkos, with all due respect, please sit back and take a breath. I wasn't saying anything bad about cops in this thread. My post related to telling the driver if you are armed or not. I only have a few friends and family members that know I carry. Almost no one besides my wife knows if I am carrying in a vehicle or not.

I am glad you vented how you feel about others opinions on police. But that's what they are, opinions, and we are allowed to differ from your opinion. I have a totally different look on LEO's. You will never change what happened in my life involving them. I completely disagree on your view, but I respect it and will not get angry. Because this thread has nothing to do with good/bad cop shinanigans, I won't go any further on that topic.

I say follow the law. If you want to voluntarily give up your rights, in respect for the officer, that is completely fine. I will give notice as a passenger when it is law, or if and when they address me.

 

[TekGreg]

This right here.

Of the 10 states that require notification, it all depends on how the statute is written. I know some say "when addressed by the officer"...others, OH specifically, says driver AND passengers most immediately notify.

Ohio has no ambiguity to the law - if there are 14 CCW people in an RV, you better all be throwing your carry permits out the window at the officer as he approaches the driver window!! Any person in the vehicle doesn't notify immediately, he is in trouble.

As far as a state where you don't need to notify, think about it: You jump into a car for a short ride to a job site or a friend's house, you have no idea what the driver thinks about guns, and, quite frankly, you have made it a principal of your life to not show or discuss your weapon with anyone, save an LEO that you must. So why would you all of a sudden stop the guy before he opens his door and say, "Hey, before you drive me anywhere, I have to tell you - I carry a concealed firearm. I thought you should know because if you get pulled over, you'll need to tell the cop that I've got a firearm on me." Are you kidding? this is waaaaay TMI!!! The driver may have just met you, but now he knows stuff about you that you didn't really want him to know. He may tell others, which you also didn't want, because you don't know if he can keep a secret to save his life.

There are many, many reasons to be concealed, and we all have friends that we love dearly but we would never tell them a secret because we know they would never be able to keep a secret no matter what. So I think it's best to keep your concealed truly concealed, unless it becomes necessary to reveal it at an actual stop.

 

[Mobuck]

I don't trust a cop any more than I trust any other stranger. I can't see how my carrying a weapon has anything to do with a common traffic stop if I'm just a passenger. No booze, no dope, no need for the cop to even talk to me and darn sure no reason for me(an honest citizen who went through the whole process of getting a CCW permit) to volunteer confidential information. No traffic violation should give the cop any right to ask for anything except the drivers information and/or vehicle registration. If the police want to treat me as just another bad guy they haven't caught yet, I'm going to treat them like they're the bottom of the turd pile.

 

[boatme98]

In Ohio, EVERYBODY has to notify, and INDIVIDUALLY.

And that seems to be working out well.

 

[FLF]

Assuming that this is a normal traffic stop I will not notify unless required to do so by law. If I am a passenger and the LEO does not address me I am not going to do anything to get anyone excited. If the officer directly addresses me or asks me to exit the vehicle for any reason - then I will notify.

 

[Deanimator]

I would sooner trust a good cop who follows the law and is professional and respectful when doing his job. Who doesn't believe in my right to carry, than half the keyboard crackpots that vomit their self proclaimed expertise here.

I don't trust ANYBODY who wants a monopoly on the means of armed force. I never have and I never will. Almost invariably they want that monopoly so that they can safely do wrong.

A cop who doesn't believe in the Bill of Rights is by definition a BAD cop.

 

[Deanimator]

And that seems to be working out well.

...except when the cop is a deranged psychopath and starts hurling obscene death threats when you OBEY his orders NOT to notify. Hopefully, Officer Harless's impression of Dennis Hopper in "Blue Velvet" will be the stake through the heart of mandatory notification in Ohio.

I assume you were being sarcastic.

 

[Deanimator]

I say follow the law. If you want to voluntarily give up your rights, in respect for the officer, that is completely fine. I will give notice as a passenger when it is law, or if and when they address me.

In my experience, those who not only willingly give up their rights, but who demand that others do so, don't actually believe in rights. They're nihilists who believe in power and the ability to impose that power on others.

 

[Deanimator]

Cops are human. Good cops can have bad days.

Do I get to have bad days with cops? I didn't think so. When people do, they end up in jail... and often tazed, pepper sprayed, beaten or shot.

"Good cops" don't get to have UNLAWFUL days. When they do, they become BAD cops and criminals. They need to no longer be cops AT ALL, good OR bad.

 

[Deanimator]

Ohio has no ambiguity to the law - if there are 14 CCW people in an RV, you better all be throwing your carry permits out the window at the officer as he approaches the driver window!!

Actually, in Ohio that wouldn't be considered lawful notification. It must be VERBAL. Note that the victim in Officer Harless's psychotic break had his CHL IN HIS HAND, and that was ignored as studiously as his attempts to verbally notify.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Cops are human. Good cops can have bad days.

Do I get to have bad days with cops? I didn't think so. When people do, they end up in jail... and often tazed, pepper sprayed, beaten or shot.

"Good cops" don't get to have UNLAWFUL days. When they do, they become BAD cops and criminals. They need to no longer be cops AT ALL, good OR bad.

I agree. Never thought to put it into those words. reminds me of that one quick conversation in the movie, not the government operation, Fast Furious.

"O'Conner, do you know the difference between a cop and a criminal?

What?

One bad judgment call.
Keep your **** in line, son."

I say follow the law. If you want to voluntarily give up your rights, in respect for the officer, that is completely fine. I will give notice as a passenger when it is law, or if and when they address me.

In my experience, those who not only willingly give up their rights, but who demand that others do so, don't actually believe in rights. They're nihilists who believe in power and the ability to impose that power on others.

True, but that's one reason for owning a firearm, to take the option of force off the table. They can be nihilists all they want, but I respect non threatening opinion more.

 

[Rich M]

We dont have to notify so... NO is my answer regardless where Im sitting in the car.

 

[Deanimator]

True, but that's one reason for owning a firearm, to take the option of force off the table. They can be nihilists all they want, but I respect non threatening opinion more.

I think that it's silly to give up ones own rights willingly, like notifying when it isn't required by law, but it doesn't directly harm me. You could argue that it harms me indirectly by creating an unreasonable expectation on the part of cops, not backed up by law. But it at least does not DIRECTLY harm me.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

You jump into a car for a short ride to a job site or a friend's house, you have no idea what the driver thinks about guns, and, quite frankly, you have made it a principal of your life to not show or discuss your weapon with anyone, save an LEO that you must. So why would you all of a sudden stop the guy before he opens his door and say, "Hey, before you drive me anywhere, I have to tell you - I carry a concealed firearm. I thought you should know because if you get pulled over, you'll need to tell the cop that I've got a firearm on me." Are you kidding? this is waaaaay TMI!!! The driver may have just met you, but now he knows stuff about you that you didn't really want him to know. He may tell others, which you also didn't want, because you don't know if he can keep a secret to save his life.

The ideas above got me thinking. Maybe part of responsible carrying means not accepting a ride from someone you don't trust to tell you're carrying. If you can't tell the driver you're carrying so you can ALL be sure you obey the law (if it is the law) then maybe you need find another ride or be the one that offers the ride. This may not be at all convenient in some situations but how many other situations require us to potentially inconvenience ourselves to carry safely/responsibly (even looking outside of cumbersome laws).

Just a thought...

I have an aunt that I would NEVER tell I carry, she's one of those anti gun nuts. The only way she'll EVER find out is if she happens to be around when I have to pull it. Hypothetically say I accept a ride from her and we end up getting pulled over in a neighboring state that mandates we notify an officer. During the stop the officer asks if ANYONE in the car is carrying a weapon (disregard why he would do this, this IS a hypothetical). She would honestly say no, as I would not have told her, and would end up unknowingly lying to a LEO. Does allowing THAT to happen qualify as responsibly carring a weapon?

 

[FLF]

I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon by the State of Florida. The law here does not require me to inform anyone of my carry "status". I do not advertise my carry status to anyone, particularly someone I don't know or only know casually. I suppose if I ever catch a ride with those of you who feel it is my duty to inform you, and you should somehow find out I am carrying - you can let me out on the side of the road and I will find another ride.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm still trying to figure out how telling a cop about my lawfully and safely carried firearm is going to help them go home safe at night...

 

[Hoganbeg]

I think it comes down to personal responsibility. I'm not required to notify here in Washington state but I plan to anyway just as a courtesy. I'm not giving up any info he wouldn't be able to get or maybe even already has. I do have something to gain which is the appearance of forthrightness which is to my advantage. Its not a guarantee of respect from the cop but its not likely to hurt anyway-and it might help. Regarding passengers who are carrying, as the driver I am legally responsible for those in my vehicle. I would not expect to be notified of anyone carrying concealed but if I did know, I would use my own judgement as to what was best. Remember, when you share a secret it is no longer a secret & you've given the power of judgement to another for good or ill. If you tell me-its out of your hands. Just another good reason to choose your friends wisely. On a personal note, there are damn few people who know I carry & I prefer to keep it that way. It gives me more control over my business.