Reminton R-51 9mm Pistol Issue

[gundick]

On Mar 13, 2014, purchased a new, blued, Remington R-51 3.4" 9mm semi-automatic pistol, 7+1 magazine, for $399.95 and tax. The all-metal gun felt good in my hand, though I'm used to more polymer guns. Pointed well. Took home, but the complicated takedown procedure exceeded my ability (one hand is limited), so used a gun qtip (not cotton) to clean white greasy stuff that turned black on the tip. Put a little oil in the cleaned parts and inside the breech. Next day, shot at the range for "break-in". 5 rds. Herter's brass 9mm 115 FMJ fired beautifully and accurately at 15 feet. Very low recoil/flip for a 9mm. Next, 5 rounds of BVAC brass 9mm 115 copper hollow point. 4 rds. fired accurately, but 5th would not go into battery. Removed mag, dropped round, put in the mag after inspection found no probs, same jam. Then put 5 rds. PMC brass 9mm 115 FMJ in, and first rd. jammed; 2nd jammed after clearing, etc. Worked the slide, found it would not close, would return about 1/2 way. Nothing made it work again. Range gunsmith could not take it down (the slide went forward until the takedown notch was over the slide catch/takedown pin. He could not get the pin out, found no obvious problem. Took to the gun store, after an hour they had the pin out, discovered the hammer has to move, would move to the rear (I'm no expert, so may have this not 100% correct), up a short ramp, then rear, but when going forward, would not go back down, causing the jam. Sadly, gun store told me to send to Remington. Remington has a page for the R-51, but didn't list it in their "Support" list. Attempts to register the gun last 3 days online get "server error '/' ". Registration form requires a 5-digit UPC after 004770(fixed), but nothing on/in box or gun has the first didgits. Put in s/n, "server error". Called, but was after 3pm Mtn., 5pm their time on Friday. Found the very downplayed email link, sent a complete description to "info.remington.com" that the link provided. Today (Sat.), range gunsmith found a review from Shot Show that indicated a small spring on the right side of the bolt when the breech comes open can come out of position, and MAY be the cause of the jam. He'll try to fix it tomorrow if he can, or at least verify this is the issue if possible.
Sweet shooting gun, though a tad heavy to my polymer hands. Accurate at close range. Slide was easy to rack. Magazine and well bottom have sharp edges, and magazine looks cheap, but worked fine. My medium hand felt fine on the grip; horizontal ridges on front of grip were fine, the not rough dimples on the sides were fine. But you can't put a grip sleeve on because the grip safety goes all the way to the bottom of the back of the mag well. It was clicky (new), but not hard or super soft. I'm not used to one, so will try to keep practicing once it's "fixed". None of the ammo was damaged, none failed or otherwise had issues. 3-dot sights were usual and decent. My FNS 9 has more "felt" recoil, and it's a great gun to me with low recoil (bigger, polymer frame). R-51 is called "subcompact", but is really the upper end of "compact" compared to my Kel Tec P32. Still, feels good in a belt and ankle holster. Did not see any accessories on Remington's site.
So I'm bummed at my first Remington gun, a pistol that is hyped well, but this poor customer service and (though not unusual for a "new" gun model) this kind of malfunction is not appreciated, even for the low price. FYI. gundick, WY

 

[MHRDeadhead]

Good information, and this is in addition to the probs that I've read about concerning reassembly after field stripping. I really wanted to "like" the R51 for many reasons, but I've heard nothing good about it thus far...with the exception of the price. Maybe the "next gen" will prove to be more competent.

On Mar 13, 2014, purchased a new, blued, Remington R-51... So I'm bummed at my first Remington gun, a pistol that is hyped well, but this poor customer service and (though not unusual for a "new" gun model) this kind of malfunction is not appreciated, even for the low price. FYI. gundick, WY

 

[Jim Miller]

I have been looking to purchase one as soon as they are available at my local gun shop. With your explanations of the problems I am not so sure now. It might be a great shooting and handling may be nice but need reliability. Any one else having problems?

 

[telpinaro]

Good information, and this is in addition to the probs that I've read about concerning reassembly after field stripping. I really wanted to "like" the R51 for many reasons, but I've heard nothing good about it thus far...with the exception of the price. Maybe the "next gen" will prove to be more competent.

That's what I'm thinking. New designs can have bugs... Hope they work it out because I'm really liking the sound of it.

 

[beachbum17]

I feel since free arms has owned remington, bushmaster, Dpms, etc their quality is not the same it use to be. I like the way the 1911 Remington feels but the good old 870 is not the same quality it use to be IMO

 

[MHRDeadhead]

My exact thoughts. Remember when Dodge redesigned the Ram in '94 or '95? They were total nightmares. And the original Cummins Rams??? Absolutely tore the frames and transmissions to shreds.

So, hopefully Rem is already at work on the next gen R51. I hope they do...that gun felt and pointed nice!

That's what I'm thinking. New designs can have bugs... Hope they work it out because I'm really liking the sound of it.

 

[telpinaro]

Looks like you're not the only one... d@mn...

Remington R51 Problems - Monderno

 

[gundick]

On Mar 13, 2014, purchased a new, blued, Remington R-51 3.4" 9mm semi-automatic pistol, 7+1 magazine, for $399.95 and tax. The all-metal gun felt good in my hand, though I'm used to more polymer guns. Pointed well. Took home, but the complicated takedown procedure exceeded my ability (one hand is limited), so used a gun qtip (not cotton) to clean white greasy stuff that turned black on the tip. Put a little oil in the cleaned parts and inside the breech. Next day, shot at the range for "break-in". 5 rds. Herter's brass 9mm 115 FMJ fired beautifully and accurately at 15 feet. Very low recoil/flip for a 9mm. Next, 5 rounds of BVAC brass 9mm 115 copper hollow point. 4 rds. fired accurately, but 5th would not go into battery. Removed mag, dropped round, put in the mag after inspection found no probs, same jam. Then put 5 rds. PMC brass 9mm 115 FMJ in, and first rd. jammed; 2nd jammed after clearing, etc. Worked the slide, found it would not close, would return about 1/2 way. Nothing made it work again. Range gunsmith could not take it down (the slide went forward until the takedown notch was over the slide catch/takedown pin. He could not get the pin out, found no obvious problem. Took to the gun store, after an hour they had the pin out, discovered the hammer has to move, would move to the rear (I'm no expert, so may have this not 100% correct), up a short ramp, then rear, but when going forward, would not go back down, causing the jam. Sadly, gun store told me to send to Remington. Remington has a page for the R-51, but didn't list it in their "Support" list. Attempts to register the gun last 3 days online get "server error '/' ". Registration form requires a 5-digit UPC after 004770(fixed), but nothing on/in box or gun has the first didgits. Put in s/n, "server error". Called, but was after 3pm Mtn., 5pm their time on Friday. Found the very downplayed email link, sent a complete description to "info.remington.com" that the link provided. Today (Sat.), range gunsmith found a review from Shot Show that indicated a small spring on the right side of the bolt when the breech comes open can come out of position, and MAY be the cause of the jam. He'll try to fix it tomorrow if he can, or at least verify this is the issue if possible.
Sweet shooting gun, though a tad heavy to my polymer hands. Accurate at close range. Slide was easy to rack. Magazine and well bottom have sharp edges, and magazine looks cheap, but worked fine. My medium hand felt fine on the grip; horizontal ridges on front of grip were fine, the not rough dimples on the sides were fine. But you can't put a grip sleeve on because the grip safety goes all the way to the bottom of the back of the mag well. It was clicky (new), but not hard or super soft. I'm not used to one, so will try to keep practicing once it's "fixed". None of the ammo was damaged, none failed or otherwise had issues. 3-dot sights were usual and decent. My FNS 9 has more "felt" recoil, and it's a great gun to me with low recoil (bigger, polymer frame). R-51 is called "subcompact", but is really the upper end of "compact" compared to my Kel Tec P32. Still, feels good in a belt and ankle holster. Did not see any accessories on Remington's site.
So I'm bummed at my first Remington gun, a pistol that is hyped well, but this poor customer service and (though not unusual for a "new" gun model) this kind of malfunction is not appreciated, even for the low price. FYI. gundick, WY

UPDATE 3/18/2014. Did receive a Remington repair "ticket" number that said I'd be getting further info on how to proceed. 2 days later, still waiting. gundick

 

[RobbK]

I feel since free arms has owned remington, bushmaster, Dpms, etc their quality is not the same it use to be. I like the way the 1911 Remington feels but the good old 870 is not the same quality it use to be IMO

You know the 870's have just not been the same. they feel cheaper but I have no idea what about them is cheaper. Of course I have been saying the same thing about Mossberg shot guns as well what used to feel bullet proof just does not any more. I have switched to Benelli super novas and though they are not made in the USA they feel like made in the USA shotguns were years ago.

 

[r1derbike]

Give 'em time to correct first year run issues.

Hell, I had to send back my XD-S .45 because of possible issues, this after 1300 flawless rounds, with no issue except a not in battery condition which was my fault.

Got it back, and it still is my EDC.

Lots of gun makers have had recalls/quality control problems. A little time sorting-out the issues which arise, may make the 2nd year run of this sidearm great.

 

[MHRDeadhead]

I have a mid '80s Rem 700ADL 30.06 that hardly ever gets used anymore...gave up hunting for various reasons. But when I busted-out that rifle this past summer, it was still dead-accurate at 100 yds...putting 5 in the 9-10 rings. I'll probably go hunting again someday, and when I do I'll be glad I still have that 700ADL. Rock solid, kicks like a mule on Red Bull, and I know I can count on it.

Hoping the R51 comes out in '15 as a much more refined instrument...built like Remingtons used to be.

You know the 870's have just not been the same. they feel cheaper but I have no idea what about them is cheaper. Of course I have been saying the same thing about Mossberg shot guns as well what used to feel bullet proof just does not any more. I have switched to Benelli super novas and though they are not made in the USA they feel like made in the USA shotguns were years ago.

 

[gundick]

You are right about first year run issues, and "we" seem to be seeing a lot of them lately, or maybe it's just because I shot nothing for 35 years, and last year got back in the "gun game" thanks to my golf buddy. And any gun can suddenly crap out unexpectedly, but none of my other guns have had any real issues (except for my SBR, which CORE promptly arranged a warranty repair for). Still, it's frustrating to have any gun go bad, but what has me unhappy is the notice of a repair ticket, now over a week ago, saying they'd email me shortly, and....not a thing since. Will they send a box as Glock and Sig have done? Will they send just a UPS pre-addressed sticker as CORE did? What? And why the delay (poor customer service). And yes, I continue to try to "register" the gun online, only to get the server error and the unrelated partial UPC code (SKU?) on the form. So tomorrow (Monday) I will try to call them (the last time over 10 minutes on the phone trying to get through "we have an unusual volume of calls...".....for what? More R51s?) again to get this moving. That's the frustration. But it's our modern, electronically connected(?) world.

 

[MHRDeadhead]

Did you get anywhere with the phone call today? It's a shame to think that Rem is having that much trouble with the R51. Could it be possible, though? How far has Rem deviated from John Pederson's design? From what I've heard, the Model 51 was a gem. All of this is further solidifying my decision of waiting for the next gen...if there is one???

So tomorrow (Monday) I will try to call them (the last time over 10 minutes on the phone trying to get through "we have an unusual volume of calls...".....for what? More R51s?) again to get this moving. That's the frustration. But it's our modern, electronically connected(?) world.

 

[gundick]

Same dead end message: "due to an unexpectedly large volume of calls....", so after 15 minutes hung up (sixth day trying, different times of day). Just read on another blog that Remington's Sales & Marketing guy just resigned. Not sure how that affects "Support", but having two "Ticket #s" helps not at all. Still can't get the gun registered, still requires a UPC number (47700, can't be changed, then the model # which must be entered) that's not anywhere on the gun, box, or inside (the model # is). And on the support page, the R51 isn't listed. Will talk to the WY Atty. Gen. Consumer Division, and a friend at the FTC tomorrow if I can get hold of them, then decide whether or not to file a complaint. This is unacceptable from what has historically been a fine American company. According to Remington's limited online blurb, there were a number of "upgrades" to allow the gun to become more modern. I'm not experienced enough to list them, but (as a researcher) hints and a few facts can be found. The FNS-9, Bersa Thunder CC, Kel Tec P32, Walther P22Q and Ruger SR22 all continue to fire with no problems (keeping me temporarily distracted as I try to recover my former shooting ability after 35 years), as do my ARs (except for the SBR, and CORE is on top of that). Thanks for asking.

 

[Sgt_Z_Squad]

Here's a video of the R51 from a Sig forum problem post of the gun.

 

[Stephenva]

My heart is broke. I had it set on getting one of these but now I will wait. Thanks for the information.

 

[MHRDeadhead]

I'm with ya Stephenva...when I first saw these in a magazine, I drooled all over the pages. Went to the Great American Outdoor Show the very next week and made a beeline to the Rem booth. Grabbed one and tried the slide, and it wouldn't budge. The rep took it away from me and gave me another while saying, "It's a 'gun show' gun...try this one." It worked fine and it felt great. I guess it's fortunate that the dealers in my neck of the woods didn't have them in stock yet, 'cuz I would've snapped-up one ASAP. Glad I held off and did more research.

 

[MHRDeadhead]

Wow, man...sorry this is turning into an issue for you. One of two things is going on here: 1. Either they know what colossal turds these guns are and they're side-stepping the issue, or 2. They truly are swamped with calls from customers needing warranty (repair) work done. Either way, they're losing their butts on this one and the future sales are probably going to downward-spiral into oblivion. Makes me wonder how in-depth their "long-term" testing lasted. How long was this gun in R&D? Did they crank 'em out without any long-term testing...AT ALL? Good luck to ya brother...at this point, I'm also starting to feel the frustration that you're dealing with!

Same dead end message: "due to an unexpectedly large volume of calls....", so after 15 minutes hung up (sixth day trying, different times of day). Just read on another blog that Remington's Sales & Marketing guy just resigned. Not sure how that affects "Support", but having two "Ticket #s" helps not at all. Still can't get the gun registered, still requires a UPC number (47700, can't be changed, then the model # which must be entered) that's not anywhere on the gun, box, or inside (the model # is). And on the support page, the R51 isn't listed. Will talk to the WY Atty. Gen. Consumer Division, and a friend at the FTC tomorrow if I can get hold of them, then decide whether or not to file a complaint. This is unacceptable from what has historically been a fine American company. According to Remington's limited online blurb, there were a number of "upgrades" to allow the gun to become more modern. I'm not experienced enough to list them, but (as a researcher) hints and a few facts can be found. The FNS-9, Bersa Thunder CC, Kel Tec P32, Walther P22Q and Ruger SR22 all continue to fire with no problems (keeping me temporarily distracted as I try to recover my former shooting ability after 35 years), as do my ARs (except for the SBR, and CORE is on top of that). Thanks for asking.

 

[gundick]

End of the issue? Thanks for the folks who understand the frustration. Let's keep the record straight: for the 9 rounds it fired, it was a very nice gun. Low recoil for a 9mm. Slide was a little rampy, but was otherwise smoothe. It was accurate, and felt good in my hand (pointing). I have read a number of posts elsewhere of folks who have had no problem with their R51s, but several who have problems similar to mine. Ok, nearly all guns have some teething problems when first put out, and any gun can have a malfunction for a myriad of reasons. The key here is, though frustrated that mine was a "lemon", most of us rely on a gunmaker's honor and quality, or we don't buy from them in the future. Meanwhile, we are often stuck with a useless piece of hardware, unless the maker's warranty is actually valid AND they act to back it up. My CORE SBR issue got a call back within 24 hours, prompt RMA, took two weeks, and now is on the way back with a full explanation of why the problem and how it was fixed. Appreciated, despite the temporary irritant (note that my two other CORE ARs have never had even a hiccup in the year I've owned them). Walther P22Q minor issue: called back within 24 hours, sent the part and missing wrench, issue resolved within a week. That's quality customer service.
Remington took a week to initially respond, got a "ticket #" and promise. A week later, after a follow-up email to them, same thing, different "ticket #", same promise. Nearly a week later, follow-up email to them, a formatted apology, another promise that "the (RMA) is in the mail". We'll see. Very poor customer service, makes me not want anything from Remington in the future, and makes their ammo questionable. They own Barnes too. Found articles during all this that said a penny stock company had made a tender offer ($1.2 billion) for Remington to Freedom Group. Then this past week, article said Remington's Sales Manager had quit (oversees customer service?). We all got troubles, but failure to overcome them can speed the death knell for a company, even an old, historically famous one.
So if they come through: I get the RMA "kit", send it in promptly, and they fix or replace the gun promptly and return it promptly, much can be "forgiven". If not, then one customer with many veteran friends will write off Remington for the future. Still haven't fixed the warranty list, the registration form, or getting the "server error '/'", which does not restore confidence in Remington.

 

[telpinaro]

End of the issue? Thanks for the folks who understand the frustration. Let's keep the record straight: for the 9 rounds it fired, it was a very nice gun. Low recoil for a 9mm. Slide was a little rampy, but was otherwise smoothe. It was accurate, and felt good in my hand (pointing). I have read a number of posts elsewhere of folks who have had no problem with their R51s, but several who have problems similar to mine. Ok, nearly all guns have some teething problems when first put out, and any gun can have a malfunction for a myriad of reasons. The key here is, though frustrated that mine was a "lemon", most of us rely on a gunmaker's honor and quality, or we don't buy from them in the future. Meanwhile, we are often stuck with a useless piece of hardware, unless the maker's warranty is actually valid AND they act to back it up. My CORE SBR issue got a call back within 24 hours, prompt RMA, took two weeks, and now is on the way back with a full explanation of why the problem and how it was fixed. Appreciated, despite the temporary irritant (note that my two other CORE ARs have never had even a hiccup in the year I've owned them). Walther P22Q minor issue: called back within 24 hours, sent the part and missing wrench, issue resolved within a week. That's quality customer service.
Remington took a week to initially respond, got a "ticket #" and promise. A week later, after a follow-up email to them, same thing, different "ticket #", same promise. Nearly a week later, follow-up email to them, a formatted apology, another promise that "the (RMA) is in the mail". We'll see. Very poor customer service, makes me not want anything from Remington in the future, and makes their ammo questionable. They own Barnes too. Found articles during all this that said a penny stock company had made a tender offer ($1.2 billion) for Remington to Freedom Group. Then this past week, article said Remington's Sales Manager had quit (oversees customer service?). We all got troubles, but failure to overcome them can speed the death knell for a company, even an old, historically famous one.
So if they come through: I get the RMA "kit", send it in promptly, and they fix or replace the gun promptly and return it promptly, much can be "forgiven". If not, then one customer with many veteran friends will write off Remington for the future. Still haven't fixed the warranty list, the registration form, or getting the "server error '/'", which does not restore confidence in Remington.

With so many people experiencing issues, I would give a company a bit of extra time (as you are doing - here's hoping things speed up!)... but yeah, if there's a problem, especially with something like this, I expect them to stand behind their product and fix things quickly. Chiappa did when I had a problem... had it back, fixed, five days after I reported an issue. Poor customer service does not bode well. I very much hope they get things sorted out, and fast! For your sake as well as theirs.