Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

B

bigb360

New member
I was stopped tonight by an officer here in MO. We're not a must inform state, but I treat everywhere I go as a must inform just as a general principle. The officer approached the car and I handed him my license and ccw permit and told him I was a conceal carrier and had my weapon on me. It was even in a console that was visible to him and I pointed it out.

He then asked for the weapon to place on top of the vehicle, to which I told him I'd rather not due to 1) not wanting to be disarmed, 2) not wanting to grab the gun and move it around while it's loaded, and 3) not wanting to go for a gun with a cop standing right next to me.

He took my licenses and came back and issued me a warning (phweh) but then told me the next time an officer asks for the gun, to give it or they'll call me in and revoke my ccw.

I'm almost sure that's not the case, given that Missouri is a shall issue state with no duty to inform. Add to that the 4th amendment AND the 2nd amendment, and I don't see how he could do that.

Does anyone here know? (I'm not looking to be lectured. We all have different philosophies on how far to allow the police to step on your rights).
 
bigb360;443328[B said:
] I'm almost sure that's a bunch of crap,[/B] given that Missouri is a shall issue state with no duty to inform. Add to that the 4th amendment AND the 2nd amendment, and I don't see how he could do that.

Does anyone here know? (I'm not looking to be lectured. We all have different philosophies on how far to allow the police to step on your rights).
Click to expand...


So, you bet your freedom on “I’m almost sure”? If you’re going to get into a pissing contest on the side of the road you’d better have all your poop in one bowl. What would you have done if he took you out of the car and handcuffed you for “officer safety”?
 
bigb360 said:
told me the next time an officer asks for the gun, to give it or they'll call me in and revoke my ccw.
Click to expand...

Um, yeah.... so either:

1. He just made a self admission that he was not going to do his "job" by not calling you in and revoking your ccw (and we must ask revoke it on what basis?)

2. What did he do, enter your name and information of a database of those "warned" previously, so a second "incident" would be handled differently?

3. Most likely you bruised an over inflated ego and he felt the need to "show you" by getting the last word in.

I have discovered the best way to avoid being hassled by a law enforcement officer about a gun is to LEGALLY conceal it from them, when allowed to do so by law, and that also means not telling them about it, unless required to do so by law. Why should I extend an invitation to the police officer to handle my gun needlessly if I am not required to do so by law?
 
Treo said:
So, you bet your freedom on “I’m almost sure”? If you’re going to get into a pissing contest on the side of the road you’d better have all your poop in one bowl. What would you have done if he took you out of the car and handcuffed you for “officer safety”?
Click to expand...



nailed it. .
 
Once the officer 'asked' for the weapon, and your response was that you did not feel comfortable doing that, didn't want to be disarmed, and didn't want to move a loaded weapon around, or go for a weapon with an officer standing there...

In my end of the world, where the officer has the legal right to see the weapon you declare &/or disarm you during the traffic stop, that officer, upon your statement of refusal, COULD have immediately removed you from the vehicle, patted you down, cuffed you for his own safety, and then proceeded to call for a supervisor &/or gone and removed the weapon for the inspection he wanted in the first place. Depending on attitude/perception of your intentions at the moment of refusal, he may have arrested you, impounded the weapon, and confiscated your carry license, and sorted it all out 'downtown'.

It does seem very odd that this officer 'warned' you to comply the NEXT time you were asked by LEO to see the weapon, and yet, himself did not force the issue right then and there to make his point...

I'm glad it turned out well for you, but seriously, not knowing what to do in this type of situation is putting yourself in a bunch of jeopardy.

I am very curious as to what the actual laws are pertaining to this situation in your jurisdiction.....

Stay safe!!
 
Treo said:
So, you bet your freedom on “I’m almost sure”? If you’re going to get into a pissing contest on the side of the road you’d better have all your poop in one bowl. What would you have done if he took you out of the car and handcuffed you for “officer safety”?
Click to expand...

agreed, the side of the road during a traffic stop is not the place to argue what is and isn't the law.
YMMV
 
Also in missouri! I had a tailight out on my 68 ford and got pulled over, i was too afraid to tell him there wS a gun inthe car even tho i have my ccw. He said "anything in the car i should know about"? I said no and he gave me a warning:/ yikes!
 
Next time:

1. Conceal the gun.
2. Don't tell.
3. If asked, comply.

It sounds like your record came back clean and he gave you a break.
 
I’m not so much trying to second guess this incident as I am trying to make the point that you need to know (not guess, not be “almost sure”) the laws of your state before the encounter and follow them to a “T”. Colorado law specifically gives the officer the right to disarm you pursuant to a stop so you would have lost the pissing contest here and in most states the officer would have been 100% within his legal rights to pull you out of the car and handcuff you for “officer safety”. I looked and can’t find a specific law for Missouri giving the cop the right to disarm you but I highly recommend you do some research and KNOW next time.
 
bigb360 said:
I was stopped tonight by an officer here in MO. We're not a must inform state, but I treat everywhere I go as a must inform just as a general principle. The officer approached the car and I handed him my license and ccw permit and told him I was a conceal carrier and had my weapon on me. It was even in a console that was visible to him and I pointed it out.

He then asked for the weapon to place on top of the vehicle, to which I told him I'd rather not due to 1) not wanting to be disarmed, 2) not wanting to grab the gun and move it around while it's loaded, and 3) not wanting to go for a gun with a cop standing right next to me.

He took my licenses and came back and issued me a warning (phweh) but then told me the next time an officer asks for the gun, to give it or they'll call me in and revoke my ccw.

I'm almost sure that's not the case, given that Missouri is a shall issue state with no duty to inform. Add to that the 4th amendment AND the 2nd amendment, and I don't see how he could do that.

Does anyone here know? (I'm not looking to be lectured. We all have different philosophies on how far to allow the police to step on your rights).
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? You caused it. NEVER... volunteer any information to LE during a routine traffic stop. If the law doesn't require notification then keep quiet about your CCW. Innocent people talk themselves into handcuffs every day.
 
Talked to a second amendment attorney. He said that the officer couldn't do that, but advised me that it's probably better to go ahead and comply, regardless of how unconstitutional the request is since the officer could try to make up some criminal charge.
 
bigb360 said:
Talked to a second amendment attorney. He said that the officer couldn't do that, but advised me that it's probably better to go ahead and comply, regardless of how unconstitutional the request is since the officer could try to make up some criminal charge.
Click to expand...

Sounds just like every other lawyer...not a 2A lawyer.
 
apvbguy said:
agreed, the side of the road during a traffic stop is not the place to argue what is and isn't the law.
YMMV
Click to expand...

My mileage DID vary.... and I was successful....

If you have done NOTHING wrong and the cop doesnt know the LAW and you prove it to them and show you are NOT intimidated they tend to back down... Now, that being said, IF you lack BALLS.. do not try this at home......
 
Almost_Blameless said:
Once the officer 'asked' for the weapon, and your response was that you did not feel comfortable doing that, didn't want to be disarmed, and didn't want to move a loaded weapon around, or go for a weapon with an officer standing there...

In my end of the world, where the officer has the legal right to see the weapon you declare &/or disarm you during the traffic stop, that officer, upon your statement of refusal, COULD have immediately removed you from the vehicle, patted you down, cuffed you for his own safety, and then proceeded to call for a supervisor &/or gone and removed the weapon for the inspection he wanted in the first place. Depending on attitude/perception of your intentions at the moment of refusal, he may have arrested you, impounded the weapon, and confiscated your carry license, and sorted it all out 'downtown'.

It does seem very odd that this officer 'warned' you to comply the NEXT time you were asked by LEO to see the weapon, and yet, himself did not force the issue right then and there to make his point...

I'm glad it turned out well for you, but seriously, not knowing what to do in this type of situation is putting yourself in a bunch of jeopardy.

I am very curious as to what the actual laws are pertaining to this situation in your jurisdiction.....

Stay safe!!
Click to expand...
Could you post the relevant Indiana statute that states this? (or a link) Thank you
 
Treo said:
I’m not so much trying to second guess this incident as I am trying to make the point that you need to know (not guess, not be “almost sure”) the laws of your state before the encounter and follow them to a “T”. Colorado law specifically gives the officer the right to disarm you pursuant to a stop so you would have lost the pissing contest here and in most states the officer would have been 100% within his legal rights to pull you out of the car and handcuff you for “officer safety”. I looked and can’t find a specific law for Missouri giving the cop the right to disarm you but I highly recommend you do some research and KNOW next time.
Click to expand...
Yes, you should ALWAYS follow UnConstitutional laws, cause treo says you should...
 
You got a break. Even though not a must inform state, you did. He wanted to secure the weapon for his safety. You said no for several reasons. You got lucky, because you told him you had a weapon, and were courteous enough with your reasons not to hand it over.

This may have turned-out much worse, if the officer already had a bad day. Everything came-back good, so you dodged the inside ball.

I'm parroting; next time don't inform.
 
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