Re: Oklahoma vs. Virginia CCW

[krypton1978]

Re: Oklahoma vs. Virginia CCW

I'll try for this to make sense:


I reside in Oklahoma and I have an Oklahoma drivers license. I am obtaining my non-resident CCW in Virginia instead of Oklahoma. Why you ask?



I had a misdemeanor drug charge 16 years ago - any drug charge, no matter how long ago, is an automatic preclusion to getting a CCW in Oklahoma. Virginia, on the other hand, only requires reporting of drug offenses within the last 5 years of the application date.

Therefore, I am not applying nor do I intend to apply for an Oklahoma CCW.

Question: Is it going to be a problem (legal or otherwise) carrying a Virginia CCW but residing in Oklahoma with an Oklahoma Drivers license? I understand that Oklahoma honors Virginia through reciprocity. I cannot find any Carry/Conceal laws in Oklahoma showing that I must have an Oklahoma CCW before using a different states CCW.


Your comments are welcome and Thanks in Advance!

 

[wolf_fire]

I am not positive on whether an OK resident must obtain an OK permit to carry.

However, one problem you will have is that you will now have to abide by the Federal law of 1000' from a school. The only preclusion to that is if you have a permit from your home state.

 

[krypton1978]

Nope - not a requirement to be licensed in Oklahoma first. My other choice was to get it expunged from my record at the cost of about $2000 for an attorney (vs. $100 for Virginia permit fee)

 

[3gunshooter]

When I moved here to OK I carried on my Utah and Arizona permit because I had to get a OK DL to get my handgun permit. You need to see a lawyer about that drug charge and see if you can get some kind of deal to get it set aside or pardoned since you have been clean for 16 years.Some states make you get your resident states permit before you can get theirs. Make sure Virgina doesn't.

 

[3gunshooter]

Nope - not a requirement to be licensed in Oklahoma first. My other choice was to get it expunged from my record at the cost of about $2000 for an attorney (vs. $100 for Virginia permit fee)

Spend the 2 grand it may save you later on down the road in case laws change or something.

 

[krypton1978]

Thanks for the help everybody. I've looked at Virginias non-resident CCW site with a fine toothed comb and scoured the internet - nothing that I can find that says I must have an Oklahoma permit. Their checklist has the normal stuff: the application, photo of drivers license, fingerprints, safety training certificate, etc. What's strange though - the drug charge doesn't even show on my OSBI report in Oklahoma but it does on ODCR so I'm pretty sure my permit would be denied. I found a form that the sheriff has to fill out on OSBI's website and there are boxes for them to check to look over OSCN and ODCR records that they turn in to OSBI with my application.

I will see if I an strike up a conversation with a few Oklahoma LEO's and give them a scenario - I get pulled over. Oklahoma drivers license. Virginia carry permit. What happens next?

 

[3gunshooter]

Thanks for the help everybody. I've looked at Virginias non-resident CCW site with a fine toothed comb and scoured the internet - nothing that I can find that says I must have an Oklahoma permit. Their checklist has the normal stuff: the application, photo of drivers license, fingerprints, safety training certificate, etc. What's strange though - the drug charge doesn't even show on my OSBI report in Oklahoma but it does on ODCR so I'm pretty sure my permit would be denied. I found a form that the sheriff has to fill out on OSBI's website and there are boxes for them to check to look over OSCN and ODCR records that they turn in to OSBI with my application.

I will see if I an strike up a conversation with a few Oklahoma LEO's and give them a scenario - I get pulled over. Oklahoma drivers license. Virginia carry permit. What happens next?

I doubt they would know. Let me do some looking around if I find something I will post it. I am an Instructor here in OK. I may call and ask. You really should look into getting it cleared up.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Since OK is not a must inform state, I would keep my mouth shut about your permit and firearm if you do happen to get stopped by a LEO, especially if you happen to be illegally carrying in a school zone at the time.

BTW... I do agree that some Oklahoma requirements are silly.

 

[krypton1978]

Thanks 3 gun shooter - I really appreciate the help and any additional info you can provide. I have a Sig P226 Equinox that is begging to be carried. @NavyLCDR - if I was carrying and got pulled over (with Virginia permit) the FIRST thing I would do is notify the LEO. Not looking into going to jail over this thing on the small chance that he sees the weapon - or on the off chance he makes me step out of the vehicle. Oklahoma is an inform state. You must notify the LEO that you are carrying. I might be making a mountain out of a mole hill - I could tell the LEO " I have a Virginia CCW when I was in Virginia with some buddies and haven't gotten around to getting my OK permit yet even though I reside in this state." Oklahoma has reciprocity with Virginia so I'm thinking I should be good - it would just be nice to DEFINETLY know if it's going to be a problem. I'll take the good advice here and safe up the money to get my record expunged but it's not going to be anytime soon. Thanks again for the speedy comments on here!

 

[NavyLCDR]

My mistake, you are correct. Oklahoma is a must inform state. Thank you for the correction.

 

[wolf_fire]

Nope - not a requirement to be licensed in Oklahoma first. My other choice was to get it expunged from my record at the cost of about $2000 for an attorney (vs. $100 for Virginia permit fee)

Ok, great.. but you completely glossed over my other point:

18 USC § 921(a)(25) The term “school zone” means—

(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

18 USC § 922 (q)(2) --

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—


(i) on private property not part of school grounds;


(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;


(iii) that is—

(I) not loaded; and

(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.


Read the bold section specifically. This means as an OK resident with a VA permit you need to maintain a 1000' perimeter around every school in OK. That limits your mobility in just about every town and specifically in cities.

 

[Shamandin]

Most states have a requirement that if you carry in your state of residence, you must be permitted by your state of residence. The Virginia permit would only help you outside of OK in states where VA has reciprocity, but OK doesn't. My VA permit is good for VA (my resident state) and it's reciprocal states. My FL non-resident permit is good for most of the other states that I need to travel in/through.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Most states have a requirement that if you carry in your state of residence, you must be permitted by your state of residence. The Virginia permit would only help you outside of OK in states where VA has reciprocity, but OK doesn't.

So, show us the Oklahoma law that makes the Virginia invalid in Oklahoma for an Oklahoma resident. We'll wait and look forward to your answer.

 

[Shamandin]

According to section 1290.26 of the OK SDA (Self Defense Act), it's referring to non-residents coming in with valid permits from other states. Specifically, para (C) refers to "Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state." Between that and the language up in section 1290.9 (Eligibilty - it establishes what residency means under the SDA), it gives me an idea.

Now, my reading from these show that a resident of OK needs an OK SDA License to legally carry in OK. Non-residents with a valid, recognized permit, are fine. As a resident of OK, the OP would need the resident permit. Now, standard IANAL warning applies. At the very least, checking with the SBI or a lawyer experienced in this section of the law is recommended.

 

[GunnyGene]

I know that $2,000 is a bunch of bucks but you need to do this right. If something should go wrong, it will cost you a lot more than the $2,000. I am a resident of VA and I was under the impression that you had to send a copy of your home state CCW, but I don't know for sure. I do know that when I got my non-resident AZ permit they required a copy of my VA permit, but that is comparing apples to oranges. Good luck!

 

[Shamandin]

According to the VA State Police web site on CHP applications for non residents (Virginia State Police - Nonresident Concealed Handgun Permits), there's no requirement in VA for non-residents to have a permit in their state of residence.

 

[TrapperBob]

I have a VA non-resident permit and I do not have a permit from my home state of NC. North Carolina accepts my VA non-resident permit as a valid CCW permit.

 

[NavyLCDR]

According to section 1290.26 of the OK SDA (Self Defense Act), it's referring to non-residents coming in with valid permits from other states. Specifically, para (C) refers to "Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state." Between that and the language up in section 1290.9 (Eligibilty - it establishes what residency means under the SDA), it gives me an idea.

Now, my reading from these show that a resident of OK needs an OK SDA License to legally carry in OK. Non-residents with a valid, recognized permit, are fine. As a resident of OK, the OP would need the resident permit. Now, standard IANAL warning applies. At the very least, checking with the SBI or a lawyer experienced in this section of the law is recommended.

§21-1290.26v1. Reciprocal agreement authority.
RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY
The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state, or if the state is a nonpermitting carry state, this state shall reciprocate under the permitting law of that state.

^^^No limitation to only while the person is a non-resident of Oklahoma that I see in there.

§21-1290.26v2. Reciprocal agreement authority.
RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT AUTHORITY
The State of Oklahoma hereby recognizes any valid concealed or unconcealed carry weapons permit or license issued by another state.

^^^No limitation to only while the person is a non-resident of Oklahoma that I see in there, either.

§21-1290.26v1. Reciprocal agreement authority.
C. Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a concealed handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.

§21-1290.26v2. Reciprocal agreement authority.
Any person who is twenty-one (21) years of age or older having a valid firearm license from another state may apply for a handgun license in this state immediately upon establishing a residence in this state.

^^^Notice the word in the above statutes is "MAY" and is not "required to", "must", or "shall". The word is "MAY". May indicates the ability or option to do something, not a requirement. If it was meant to be a requirement, the word "must", "shall", or "will be required to" would have been used.

The plain language of the above statutes indicates that any valid out-of-state permit is valid in Oklahoma regardless of state of residence, and that as soon as a person establishes residency in Oklahoma they MAY apply for an Oklahoma license, but they are not required to.

 

[krypton1978]

Email response from an attorney I contacted about expunging my Oklahoma record. I also contacted OSBI (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation) and they stated that it must be a "full expungement" to obtain my OK permit. The Count 2 paraphernalia charge was the Zig Zag Papers that I had with the marijuana that I possessed at the time. I completed more research on non-resident CCW's and I've decided I'm going to get a non-resident Florida CCW instead of Virginia CCW b/c it covers more states, it's more recognizable, and the permit fee is $112.00 for 7 years and it has all of the requirements that the Virginia license has.


Email from attorney:

"The 1998 charge was a conviction on two separate counts, Count 1 – Unlawful Possession of Marijuana, Count 2 – Unlawful possession of paraphernalia. It has been over 10 years since the term of probation expired on each of the charges. You have filed a Petition to expunge in regard to only 1 count and there is no order setting the Petition for hearing. In my opinion the OSBI will object to an expungement because there are two convictions. There is a small chance that such a Petition would be successful because of the way the statute is written, but there are no guarantees. My fee to file for the expungement on this one will be $1,500.00, plus costs and expenses."

 

[BluesStringer]

Everybody who has ever read more than a handful of my posts knows that I detest the permission-slip system anywhere in the country, but I have to take note of something that I see in this discussion that no one seems to be taking into consideration. I'm wondering if there's not an OK code section that is a general law, having nothing specifically to do with the permission-slip codes, that says that any attempt to skirt the laws of OK is, in and of itself, breaking the law. In other words, if the intent of the OK code is that permit-holders must not have a drug-related conviction on their record, then whether or not the codes regarding carrying say "May" or "Shall," the OP is obviously trying to work around the legislative intent of a valid, duly passed OK law. I would have the lawyer look into that question before going only on the carry codes. Skirting the legislative intent of your resident state is sketchy to me. I've heard of the kind of laws I'm referring to before, but don't have any personal experience with them. I'd be careful about focusing only on the carry codes. It sure wouldn't be the first time a state wrote codes that seemingly conflicted with each other, but if there's a general law that you shall not attempt to skirt OK's laws notwithstanding the language of other code sections, that's not really a conflict anyway. Proceed with extreme caution, because there's a chance you're getting ready to put another newer conviction on your record.

Blues