Questions about handgun laws......

H

harryhood89

New member
I live in the state of NH, I recently went TN to visit my grandparents and being from NH I was not able to buy a gun from a retailer in that state. My grandparents were planning on just paying for the gun I want but that wasn't going to work out. My grandfather purchased a springfield xd40 that I really liked and he sold it to me right after in a private sale. We have a bill of sale from him to me, but the whole thing was really a gift. I flew home to NH, packed the gun in a TSA approved case and brought it back with me. In NH we don't have to register guns, but I had questions on the legality of the whole issue and I'm going to get my concealed permit tomorrow but I don't want a problem to arise and have an issue with the gun I purchased. Any questions or advice on this would be extremely helpful...
 
An immediate family member transfer is usually lawful. I am not certain if grandparents are part of the immediate family list. I don't see how this could affect your ccw permit as the permit process shouldn't be asking you about what gun you intend on carrying. Anyway, I thought NH was a carry at will state...no permit needed. Are you really trying to find out the facts or are you trying to find out if we will tell you ways to circumvent federal firearm laws.
 
Seriously? He buys a gun from a retailer, then you "buy" it from him, but it's a "gift"? Why didn't you just buy the damn thing yourself in New Hampshire?

"Boxxy... oh Boxxy... clean up in the General Firearms Discussion aisle please". :sarcastic:
 
not trying to circumvent any federal laws my man that's the point. I just want to know if I own the gun now outright that is all. My aim is to completely obey the federal laws.
 
Straight to the Point. If you can't look up the laws in your state and other effected states, or federal laws, you shouldn't own a gun or permit.
Give the gun back to Grandpa, and cancel your permit, you're not ready for either.
 
Well lets say you hadn't posted this thread telling that your granddad was buying the gun for you...next time, let whoever you want buy the gun, and you buy it from them the next day during a private sale. Because I don't see how they could disprove that whoever bought the gun simply didn't like it after getting it, and asked if you wanted it.

And just to clarify, I am advocating circumventing federal laws. Because as far as I'm concerned, any and all gun laws, state or federal, or contradictory to the wording of the 2nd amendment and therefore unconstitutional and VOID.
 
But as someone stated before, I do recommend that you become more fluent with federal and state laws concerning firearms, possession and carry. It's usually becomes quite fun because most cops don't know these laws near to the extent that they should, and the humble ones will usually admit it....but you can make the arrogant ones feel like ignorant POS's. Campus PD gave me hell last semester for having a gun in my vehicle on campus, and almost arrested me. But I keep a printout of all SC gun laws in my truck, which still wasn't enough to convince him I was right, but was enough to persuade him to call SLED and confirm that I was right. He was a very sore loser :)
 
harryhood89 said:
not trying to circumvent any federal laws my man that's the point. I just want to know if I own the gun now outright that is all. My aim is to completely obey the federal laws.
Click to expand...

Too late. You and your grandfather already violated at least two Federal laws and committed felonies.

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

Look at 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5)

The legal method to transfer the handgun would have been to ship it to a New Hampshire FFL for transfer to you. Also, the bill of sale that you created....is now physical evidence of the violation of Federal law so if you destroy it, it could be viewed as destroying evidence in an attempt to hide a crime.
 
Yep, if I were you I would ship it back to granddad, then have him ship it back to a local FFL. So that you will then be in legal possession of the gun. And next time, just don't post it on the Internet. Big brother would have been ignorant to the situation had this thread not have been started.
 
AndeyHall said:
Yep, if I were you I would ship it back to granddad
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Illegal to ship it to grandad out of state.

There is 99% chance that this inadvertant violation of Federal law will never be detected if grandad and grandson destroy the bill of sale and never speak of this again. There is no requirement for any paperwork for the giflt or sale of a gun between two private parties in either TN or NH ... but, to comply with Federal law, a private party gift or sale of any firearm between any two private parties, related or not, both of the parties must be residents of the same state - otherwise the gift or sale must go through an FFL if it is between residents of different states, related or not.
 
Does federal law require you to hold on to proof of FFL transfer? Cause I gotta say, I don't know where most of the forms are that I got from local dealers for my guns. I like it that way though....the less hard evidence there is out there for our government to prove that I have a gun, the less likely any will be confiscated.
 
AndeyHall said:
Does federal law require you to hold on to proof of FFL transfer? Cause I gotta say, I don't know where most of the forms are that I got from local dealers for my guns. I like it that way though....the less hard evidence there is out there for our government to prove that I have a gun, the less likely any will be confiscated.
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The FFL keeps the transfer records, there is no requirement for the buyer to keep anything.
 
That's what I thought. I was gonna say he could just say that he had it transferred through an FFL and doesn't have documentation, but I didn't think about the fact that they would just ask what FFL and could look there.
 
harryhood89 said:
I live in the state of NH, I recently went TN to visit my grandparents and being from NH I was not able to buy a gun from a retailer in that state. My grandparents were planning on just paying for the gun I want but that wasn't going to work out. My grandfather purchased a springfield xd40 that I really liked and he sold it to me right after in a private sale. We have a bill of sale from him to me, but the whole thing was really a gift. I flew home to NH, packed the gun in a TSA approved case and brought it back with me. In NH we don't have to register guns, but I had questions on the legality of the whole issue and I'm going to get my concealed permit tomorrow but I don't want a problem to arise and have an issue with the gun I purchased. Any questions or advice on this would be extremely helpful...
Click to expand...
flying with the gun is no issue, TSA is only concerned (or should only be concerned) about the safe transport of the weapon on the plane.
where you go off the rails is what appears to be a straw purchase. If I am not mistaken you not being a resident of TN precludes you from buying most weapons there, there might be exceptions for long guns. regardless of the fact that you were "gifted" the gun you could have violated the law. and regardless of your not trying to circumvent the law, you may have and quite possibly be prosecuted if found out.
 
apvbguy said:
harryhood89 said:
I live in the state of NH, I recently went TN to visit my grandparents and being from NH I was not able to buy a gun from a retailer in that state. My grandparents were planning on just paying for the gun I want but that wasn't going to work out. My grandfather purchased a springfield xd40 that I really liked and he sold it to me right after in a private sale. We have a bill of sale from him to me, but the whole thing was really a gift. I flew home to NH, packed the gun in a TSA approved case and brought it back with me. In NH we don't have to register guns, but I had questions on the legality of the whole issue and I'm going to get my concealed permit tomorrow but I don't want a problem to arise and have an issue with the gun I purchased. Any questions or advice on this would be extremely helpful...
Click to expand...
flying with the gun is no issue, TSA is only concerned (or should only be concerned) about the safe transport of the weapon on the plane.
where you go off the rails is what appears to be a straw purchase. If I am not mistaken you not being a resident of TN precludes you from buying most weapons there, there might be exceptions for long guns. regardless of the fact that you were "gifted" the gun you could have violated the law. and regardless of your not trying to circumvent the law, you may have and quite possibly be prosecuted if found out.
Click to expand...
I agree, but at the same time, if a law enforcement agency found this thread and pursued a prosecution they are just assholes. The law should be enforced with discretion, not with a robot mentality. The purpose of law is to prevent crimes that cause personal or social harm...there isn't anything or anyone being harmed in this transaction. It really yanks my chain when I hear about law enforcement pursuing these types of situations, yet real criminals who actually have ill intent walk everday.
 
AndeyHall said:
I agree, but at the same time, if a law enforcement agency found this thread and pursued a prosecution they are just assholes. The law should be enforced with discretion, not with a robot mentality. The purpose of law is to prevent crimes that cause personal or social harm...there isn't anything or anyone being harmed in this transaction. It really yanks my chain when I hear about law enforcement pursuing these types of situations, yet real criminals who actually have ill intent walk everday.
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I would think about the only way the violation would come to light in the future would be if the gun were lost/stolen/sold and either it was reported stolen by the current owner or later showed up a crime scene and LEO requested the ATF to do a trace on the gun. Then the ATF would go to the manufacturer, then the distributor, then the first retail FFL, and then they might go to the first purchaser, who should answer, I sold that gun years ago, heck, I don't remember to who!
 
NavyLCDR said:
Too late. You and your grandfather already violated at least two Federal laws and committed felonies.

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

Look at 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5)

The legal method to transfer the handgun would have been to ship it to a New Hampshire FFL for transfer to you. Also, the bill of sale that you created....is now physical evidence of the violation of Federal law so if you destroy it, it could be viewed as destroying evidence in an attempt to hide a crime.
Click to expand...



Bingo. The Tennessee dealer couldn't sell directly to you for this specific reason.

You directly circumvented the law by trying not to.
 
Grandpa bought the firearm and decided to give it to his grandson as a gift. Who was harmed physically or financially? No crime committed.

SCOTUS Opinions

Mugler v. Kansas 123 U.S. 623, 659-60.
"Our system of government, based upon the individuality and intelligence
of the Citizen, the state does not claim to control him, except as his
conduct to others, leaving him the sole judge as to all that only affects
himself."

(see Christy v. Elliot, 216 Ill. 31, 74 NE 1035; Cal v. Farley, 98 Cal.
09, 20 CA 3d 1032; Mich. v. Duke, 266 US 576, 69, 449.)
State police power extends only to immediate threats to public safety,
health, and welfare.
 
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