Question regarding "No Weapons Allowed" signs in MA

Vanquished

Vanquished

Blue State Conservative
Hey Everyone,
I usually conceal carry to my local AMC here in MA because I don't like the idea of being a "sitting duck" like all those people in Aurora. Apparently AMC has a no-weapons policy for all there theaters. My question here is: do I have to follow the signs?
It's been a while since I took my firearms safety class but I recall the instructors saying the only places you can't carry are government buildings, schools, and Logan airport. I think they did also say that if someone asks to you leave you have to do so, or they have to provide proper storage for your weapon (or whatever). But I really want to double check about the legality of me carrying to the theater passed the posted signs. Not sure what a legally binding sign looks like but the ones on my AMC are not very big:

Link Removed

I also wonder, if something like Aurora does happen (even though the odds I'd be in that theater are astronomical) and I try and stop the bad guy with my weapon what world of hurt would I be in for having and using the weapon in these "no weapons" establishments?...

Thanks for the help!
-Vanq
 
Question regarding "No Weapons Allowed" signs in MA

If you're carrying concealed, it's no one else's business. You don't have to disclose to your server that you're carrying.
 
Andrew49417 said:
If you're carrying concealed, it's no one else's business. You don't have to disclose to your server that you're carrying.
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Most states have laws that require you to not carry if a sign is posted, with criminal penalties attached.
Better to just not go to those places.
 
I know in NH These signs don't mean a thing unless a Member of Management see it they are the ONLY ones that can ask you to leave not the regular employees if you refuse to leave then yes you are breaking the law by Trespassing.
 
Anyone or any business can tell you that you can't carry a gun in their establishment....... BUT... if you're doing your part in keeping your weapon concealed, nobody will even know if you don't have to use it. If you DO have to use it for self preservation and/or use it to stop a crime, that movie theater will be thanking you for ignoring the stupid sign.
I carry everywhere as long as I know I won't have to go through a scanner or be subjected to a search. And yes I am a MA resident as well. Never leave home without it!
 
In Texas this is whats Law>>>"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."
 
It will depend on the State's Concealed carry laws but in most State’s if a business has posted a sign in plain sight that reflects a no weapons policy you don’t want to carry a gun inside the business. You could be arrested, your gun could be seized, you will have a large fine, and you could also be charged with a felony which if convicted will cause you to lose your rights to own any firearms.

Again it depends on the State.

Like SCrid2000 said;Better to just not go to those places.
 
The state I live in there is no criteria that establishes the legality of a sign. The law only says the posting must be on all doors that are considered customer entrances. If you carry in these "gun free zones" you can be asked to leave and the management of the store may forward your info to the police for investigation and prosecution. I have stopped going to the stores that have begun posting these signs. I have had conversations with the store managers however that I and others will not patronize their establishments if they insist on violating customers 2A rights.
 
30.06 is a texas law. moving on to Mass... No where in New England has binding signage. ignore it all you like, but leave if asked. keel it consealed, and no one will know, so no one will ask. problem solved. only exceptions, federal buildings, schools, state buildings (i beleive all of them, but havent read the law in a while, and cant access it on my phone) post offices, houses of correction, and maybe one or two others. movie theaters, church, stores, resturants, liquor stores, strip clubs, taking the dog to the vet... you get the idea...are just fine, sign or not. standard "I am not a lawyer, my thoughts are worth what you paid for them, read the law and verify/decide for yourself" statement.
 
Legally you are not suppose to enter the movies...

Now I am not a lawyer...

Here is what I do, and yes I'm from Ma, when I see the sign I hand the money to my wife and I do not go near the ticket counter, the wife gets the tickets and we go to the movie...

Now if for some reason I am asked by someone from the theater if I am carrying I can say "sorry I didn't see the sign"...

They will than ask you to leave and you have to...

That should be the end of it, as long as you are not stupid and cause a scene it should be the end of it, hopefully the theater will drop it also and allow you to leave...

So the short of it is "play stupid", "Sorry I didn't see the sign, I'll leave now" and you should be OK...

As I said I'm not a lawyer, if you want to learn more I would contact Jesse Cohen, he is a great firearms lawyer in Ma...

Or (not meaning to send you away from this sight) I would check out Northeastshooters.com... It is the go to forum for the Newengland area...

Hope that helped...

David


.
 
They attempted to "wand" me the other day at the Florida State Fair....Yes, the Fair where they hire child molesters and others that are "unemployable". I was walking through the gate and some rent a cop with a wand came at me and my daughter and started waving it around her. I stepped up and said, "I am carrying a concealed weapon with a license to carry, no need to wand me. It is legal to do so here." She yelled at a HCSO officer to come over and he pulled me off to the side and asked for my CWL and SSN. He called it in and that was that. The cop, no surprise here, was FULL of attitude about it. Would not say a word to me except for "social" and "drivers license and CWL". No please, thank you or anything. I tried making small talk with the guy to be friendly but with no luck. LOL.
 
SCrid2000 said:
Most states have laws that require you to not carry if a sign is posted, with criminal penalties attached.
Better to just not go to those places.
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wrong. in MOST states those signs do not carry the force of law on private property. if you are discovered you can be asked to leave. if you don't leave when asked THEN you're breaking the law. don't know about MA though.
 
I was open carrying in a theater a while back, can't remember what brand it was. As I left the concession stand line two managers approached me and asked if I was an officer. I said, yes, I am a Navy officer. They said, do you have and ID? I showed them my military ID, and they said "sorry to bother you, we only allow officers to carry firearms here." Strange. I wonder they have against enlisted military members?

handgunlaw.us says that signs do have the force of law in MA, but I disagree. The MA statute they are referencing is this one:
General Laws: CHAPTER 266, Section 120

Section 120. Whoever, without right enters or remains in or upon the dwelling house, buildings, boats or improved or enclosed land, wharf, or pier of another, or enters or remains in a school bus, as defined in section 1 of chapter 90, after having been forbidden so to do by the person who has lawful control of said premises, whether directly or by notice posted thereon, or in violation of a court order pursuant to section thirty-four B of chapter two hundred and eight or section three or four of chapter two hundred and nine A, shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days or both such fine and imprisonment. Proof that a court has given notice of such a court order to the alleged offender shall be prima facie evidence that the notice requirement of this section has been met. A person who is found committing such trespass may be arrested by a sheriff, deputy sheriff, constable or police officer and kept in custody in a convenient place, not more than twenty-four hours, Sunday excepted, until a complaint can be made against him for the offence, and he be taken upon a warrant issued upon such complaint.
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I don't see a "no guns" sign as forbidding you to enter or remain on the premesis. I see the sign as expressing the owner's desire to prohibit an object, not a person.

Section 121 further down says this:
Section 121. Whoever, without right, enters upon the land of another with firearms, with intent to fire or discharge them thereon, and, having been requested by the owner or occupant of such land or by his agent to leave such land, remains thereon, shall be punished by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two months, or both.
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911 Dispatcher's statement in Post #9 is true in only a few states, not most. What is universal among all states is that once the owner/agent of the property asks you to leave, you must leave or be trespassing.
 
Hmm, so it seems there is a bit of disagreement on the issue. I'm not terribly worried about a person seeing my concealed carry since when I go to the movie theater I bring my BG 380 in an ankle holster (since I'm in a seated position). My primary worry is what would happen should I ever need to use the gun for protection, in these messed up times I just worry that I'd be considered a criminal and do serious jail time for discharging the weapon in the theater. I've also heard in passed that the sign in the picture is not binding and that almost no places use the legally binding sign but I was wondering if anyone could verify that.

ARV said:
30.06 is a texas law. moving on to Mass... No where in New England has binding signage. ignore it all you like, but leave if asked. keel it concealed, and no one will know, so no one will ask. problem solved. only exceptions, federal buildings, schools, state buildings (i beleive all of them, but havent read the law in a while, and cant access it on my phone) post offices, houses of correction, and maybe one or two others. movie theaters, church, stores, resturants, liquor stores, strip clubs, taking the dog to the vet... you get the idea...are just fine, sign or not. standard "I am not a lawyer, my thoughts are worth what you paid for them, read the law and verify/decide for yourself" statement.
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This seems to be along the same lines what my course instructor said.

I wish I could go to another theater other than AMC but unfortunately there really aren't any other ones as close to me with as many theaters, and the AMC just happens to be right where I meet friends to grab a bite and see a movie as well. I used to work at this AMC and in my time I never saw or heard of a person legally being able to carry getting kicked out but that is most likely due to the weapons being concealed properly. Fun story is that the police are actually not allowed to patrol inside this theater anymore because they "profiled" a kid with a knife and got in trouble for it... The perp did have a knife but the officer apparently had no probable cause or whatever... Now they use rent-a-cops.

EDIT:
I did go over and peruse NES and found the following regarding my sign question:
-Private businesses with signage: MA has NO BINDING SIGNAGE in it whatsoever. (Similar to crap seen in TX and other states with new CCW regs) These signs in MA can be ignored from a legal standpoint. That said, if you are detected and you are asked to leave, and you do not leave, you can easily be charged with trespassing. Might also be a suitability issue if you don't leave and the police come.
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Vanquished said:
Hmm, so it seems there is a bit of disagreement on the issue. I'm not terribly worried about a person seeing my concealed carry since when I go to the movie theater I bring my BG 380 in an ankle holster (since I'm in a seated position). My primary worry is what would happen should I ever need to use the gun for protection, in these messed up times I just worry that I'd be considered a criminal and do serious jail time for discharging the weapon in the theater.
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if you're in a situation where you have to pull or even use your concealed carry weapon, you've got bigger problems than whatever the consequences of being seen with a gun are. The ONLY time you're allowed to shoot/return fire is IF YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER. If the choice is a fine and jail time vs. death, it's not a hard choice. (better be judged by 12 than carried by 6). I mean...what are you going to do, say "oh well I'd defend myself but I don't want to risk getting in trouble so just go ahead and shoot me"? I believe MA has a "good samaritan" law as well so if you were in a position to save someone else life, you would have to act as well. But MA may not have "Stand your ground" laws, so legally, your life is only in danger if you're really cornered, have no means of escape, and really believe that you WILL die unless you shoot - unfortunately, the possibility of getting beaten up or robbed may not meet the test of "was your life really in danger". I know in the states that I frequent, these aren't concerns. I actually just turned down a contract in MA in large part due to the fact that they wouldn't recognize any of my CCW permits.

In some states, you can shoot a retreating attacker in the back while he's running away on your property if you suspect he's running to get more friends and come back for you (because he knows where you live)....doesn't mean you SHOULD...just saying some states have a more pragmatic approach to self-defense.
 
blarg said:
if you're in a situation where you have to pull or even use your concealed carry weapon, you've got bigger problems than whatever the consequences of being seen with a gun are. The ONLY time you're allowed to shoot/return fire is IF YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER. If the choice is a fine and jail time vs. death, it's not a hard choice. (better be judged by 12 than carried by 6). I mean...what are you going to do, say "oh well I'd defend myself but I don't want to risk getting in trouble so just go ahead and shoot me"? I believe MA has a "good samaritan" law as well so if you were in a position to save someone else life, you would have to act as well. But MA may not have "Stand your ground" laws, so legally, your life is only in danger if you're really cornered, have no means of escape, and really believe that you WILL die unless you shoot - unfortunately, the possibility of getting beaten up or robbed may not meet the test of "was your life really in danger".
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I understand what you're saying and for the most part I would agree; however this state scares me with its overly anti-gun attitude. Jail time might as well be the end of your life, and if it's for an extended (20 years) period of time I think I'd rather be dead. I'm sure when push comes to shove if I ever find myself in the movie theater situation or one like it, I won't hesitate to draw... in the conscious, not heat-of-the-moment thought process on the scenario it's just worrisome to think of the possible backlash someone could get for attempting to save lives. I don't trust MA's government or justice system very much considering the majority of people I know are ignorant of guns and therefore are scared of them...
 
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